[Deck] Turbo Depths

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Originally Posted by solnox

https://youtu.be/7ckmFItrop0

R1/2 https://youtu.be/pDve9uU1y3U

R3-5: https://youtu.be/4gCxkj98ptg
Its my first attempt at recording myself. I'm going over the deck I run online these days. I just 5-0'd a league vs 2 Czech Pile, Miracles, Aggro Loam, and Elves so a wide variety of matchups

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Thanks for the content

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Originally Posted by rcwraspy

I've played Depths lists in Vintage quite a bit and have dipped my toe into the Legacy versions, especially the "turbo depths" lists most in this thread are running. I have a few questions of cards and strategies that I'm sure have all been discussed at various points but that I'm interested in. Apologies for any inconvenience.

1. Dark Times. The old, from what I can tell original, Dark Times lists from Vintage were mono-black and included main deck 4x [c]Leyline of the Void[/c] and a [c]Helm of Obedience[/c] or two. This works (or worked) in Vintage but not Legacy for a couple reasons - first, Dredge used to be one of the main pillars of the format so main deck leylines weren't bad and second, Vintage has access to all the powerful black tutors that Legacy doesn't. However, I've always wondered if other ideas from that deck could be ported over to Legacy. It was super hateful with MD Wastelands and Needles, drew well with Confidants, and could power out quick combos with not only lotus and mox jet but also [c]Dark Ritual[/c]. Anybody here attempt a mono-black attrition shell, perhaps with Top instead of the Vintage tutors?

2. Rituals can still power out some crazy plays with this deck in Legacy, especially if leaning more black than green. It provides mana for Stage activations, lets you duress+Hexmage from a single black source, etc. Any testing on including these? Are they simply too clunky and/or duplicative?

3. If anybody is experimenting with slower builds, so something between Turbo Depths and Lands, has your testing included [c]Traverse the Ulvenwald[/c]? Being able to grab both a Dark Depths and a Hexmage for G is very tempting, but it's probably slower and requires some deck building constraints to get Delirium. I imagine a slower build like this would also run Loam, though I completely understand why the Turbo version doesn't.

4. A pet SB card of mine has always been [c]Grim Discovery[/c]. It's an obvious one and I'm sure you've all seen it before. Anybody else enjoy this as a one-of from the board?

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Hey there-- I did try out a 3 dark ritual BG turbo build. It was okay, but just had too much variance over several rounds. I currently run a BG turbo version, and I find it pretty consistent and fast.

Some folks on here have some really interesting slower builds, I'd look back through some posts and find em. Some have living wish which is pretty versatile. I have never even seen Grim Discovery, looks pretty decent :-)

I've been experimenting online with a BUG Depths build that so far seems really good. It's a little slower than BG Turbo Depths, but is more resilient and has great card selection. I'll post the current list (still experimenting) to see what you all think. I may try running it in some Vegas side events and see how it goes.

4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Polluted Delta
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sejiri Steppe
3x Vampire Hexmage
1x Expedition Map
2x Pithing Needle
3x Mox Diamond
4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder
3x Gitaxian Probe
1x Stifle
3x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
4x Crop Rotation
2x Sylvan Scrying
4x Thoughtseize
1x Duress
1x Inquisition of Kozilek

SB:
2x Pithing Needle
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Karakas
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Not of This World
3x Flusterstorm

So far my observations have been that it has a better DnT matchup and a worse match-up against Blood Moon / Chalice stompy decks. Miracles might be a little better, but too early to tell. I know Negator on here runs a BUG list, but mine is more blue-based so it probably runs a bit different. There are still games where I have turn 1-2 Marit Lage, but moreso it is a turn 4-5 deck with spending some time stripping their hand, countering important things, and sculpting your hand. Let me know your thoughts :-)

If you are playing Gitaxian Probe, it might be worth playing Cabal Therapy in the discard suite.

I don't have any blue duals so I've never tested any BUG but could blue versions run Teferi's response in the 75 for Wasteland and Port?

Probe/therapy has been clunky for me in the past. Twferis reaponse is a little slow and mana intensive. Stifle does what you want while still beong relevant vs miracles and storm arguably two of the tougher matchups.

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Originally Posted by solnox

https://youtu.be/7ckmFItrop0

R1/2 https://youtu.be/pDve9uU1y3U

R3-5: https://youtu.be/4gCxkj98ptg
Its my first attempt at recording myself. I'm going over the deck I run online these days. I just 5-0'd a league vs 2 Czech Pile, Miracles, Aggro Loam, and Elves so a wide variety of matchups

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Thanks for the videos. I'm thinking of building the deck so I'm looking for good videos.

Double thanks for beating Gul_Dukat. I (and others) reported that guy several times over at the mtgsalvation forums for being a complete a-hole in the old Twin thread. It got to a point where I had turned off all his comments.

well :-) we can all get rid of that 4-5 sb cards we had just for Miracles and focus on our other foes.

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Originally Posted by AmokPL

well :-) we can all get rid of that 4-5 sb cards we had just for Miracles and focus on our other foes.

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And I was really starting to enjoy the Rite of Consumption tech.

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Originally Posted by filln

And I was really starting to enjoy the Rite of Consumption tech.

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Lol I just bought a Boseiju this weekend. Oh well, the rites plan could still help some some stalled out boards with chump blockers but the need for Boseiju has definitely decreased.

What are our other worst matchups? D&T and S&T?

Worst matchup becomes whatever high speed combo deck emerges from the ashes...until that's answered by UW Blade. UWx stoneblade will likely come back but I don't think that will be too terrible. Answer Swords and you're good, the rest of that deck is on a different axis.

So with my miracles deck getting banned into oblivion, what's changed with this deck since GP Chiba?

The board has been shaken up almost every hour with the latest anti-miracles tech. Latest were Rites of Consumption + Boseiju, or Academy Ruins + Walking Ballista.

Honestly, not much else other than that.

There could be some work now though towards the Dark Ritual Depths, longer control versions with Nether Void or whatever, and BUG versions.

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Originally Posted by Claymore

The board has been shaken up almost every hour with the latest anti-miracles tech. Latest were Rites of Consumption + Boseiju, or Academy Ruins + Walking Ballista.

Honestly, not much else other than that.

There could be some work now though towards the Dark Ritual Depths, longer control versions with Nether Void or whatever, and BUG versions.

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Guess it is time to start targeting D&T hardcore. Maybe even consider some alternative win-cons in the board.

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Originally Posted by ComplexPants

Guess it is time to start targeting D&T hardcore. Maybe even consider some alternative win-cons in the board.

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The upside is that D&T will likely face some headwinds in the new meta. Miracles was a good matchup for them, Elves and TNN will be more prevalent now. Early rumblings suggest that red (for Magus of the Moon) and black (for Zealous Persecution, Orzhov, Thoughtseize) splash will be more common and that Revoker will be shaved down. Red splash isn't great for us but the black splash and less Revokers is a good thing.

Many of you know that I've put a lot of time into making the Miracles matchup better through sideboard tech. I hope you guys enjoyed, but it appears that some of our problems may be over with that regard. The deck may turn out to still exist as a Jace + miracle cards control deck, but I believe that it will be substantially weaker than it has been. It will be more vulnerable to discard and the threat of Terminus is going to decrease no matter what.

I don't like to metagame the metagame changes that we might see with this. The reason is that some matchups might change substantially because sideboards are going to change a lot. Previous sideboards of many decks had several dedicated miracles slots, so even though our sideboard is clearing up, other decks have more slots too. For example, a rise in instant-speed edict effects out of Delver decks or the Czech pile might make things worse for us.

However, this doesn't mean I can't talk about some preliminary changes I'm considering. I feel like if I was going to ignore Miracles in the previous environment, my sideboard would look something like:

? Chalice / Sphere of Resistance
? Surgical
? Dread of Night
4 Abrupt Decay (still needed IMO)
1 Pithing Needle
1 Karakas
3 Sylvan Library (still want this for D+T, Stoneblade, some combo decks)

With 6 slots available in this sideboard, I'm confident that we can adapt to the new metagame, despite some probable surges in decks we might not enjoy. I think that Surgical is especially interesting because there could be more Lands in this new meta.

I think Surgicals and Spheres is how I am leaning for my SB, with extra D&T stuff like
Toxic Deluge
Dread of Night
Massacre.


Here is our answer to Diabolic Edict:

Beckon apparition


:eek:
But realistically I think we just treat it like STP and pull it with our discard.

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Originally Posted by hovercraft

Here is our answer to Diabolic Edict:

Beckon apparition


:eek:
But realistically I think we just treat it like STP and pull it with our discard.

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Dryad Arbor is our "best" answer besides discard.

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Originally Posted by DNSolver

Dryad Arbor is our "best" answer besides discard.

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Oh yeah I know I was being sarcastic about Beckon. Arbor is great as a CR and Catacombs target.

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Originally Posted by hovercraft

Oh yeah I know I was being sarcastic about Beckon. Arbor is great as a CR and Catacombs target.

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What are the merits of Khalni Garden vs. Dryad Arbor? Is the biggest advantage Arbor has that it can be fetched?

If Delver and/or Infect increases, do we move to more Blooming Marshes to avoid Submerge? If so, I would guess # of fetches goes down? In this case Khalni probably gets better than Arbor.