http://www.germagic.de/news/SoM%20-%...ric%20Mass.jpg
what about this artifact?
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http://www.germagic.de/news/SoM%20-%...ric%20Mass.jpg
what about this artifact?
Not bad.. but I think chimeric idol is stronger, because u can use it with no mana..
and chimeric mass will be a 3/3 creature, not more (so it's the same of chimeric idol).
I dont see it beeing better than... let's say Mishra's Factory or Darksteel Brute or such. Factory is a land, which makes it less vulnerable while the Brute is indestructible.
It has the advantage of beeing an X-Spell, but even if you plan to go for it in some mono-brown build and it "grows" to be a 6/6 i dont like it. And in Pox i don't see it "growing" :)
I'm not very excited on the card, too. It could be decent in Bg builds, where you end up accumulating a decent amount of mana, but even there it would probably be underwhelming, because of its antisynergy with Pernicious Deed.
Hey guys, for a while I've been playing this LoamPox list that I've built using some ideas from this thread (specifically mujadaddy) and DeckCheck.net:
// Lands
3 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
4 [TE] Wasteland
7 [M11] Swamp (1)
2 [B] Bayou
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
// Creatures
3 [FUT] Tombstalker
2 [RAV] Necroplasm
// Spells
4 [TSP] Smallpox
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
4 [OD] Innocent Blood
4 [U] Sinkhole
4 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
3 [RAV] Life from the Loam
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
3 [IA] Pox
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top (flexible slot, I find I never have time to spin it)
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [FNM] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [AL] Dystopia
SB: 2 [MR] Culling Scales
SB: 1 [EVE] Raven's Crime
The deck plays just like a typical Pox control deck, so most of the cards don't need much explanation. However, I'd like to provide a little of my input on select card choices:
Inquisition of Kozilek - This has an advantage over Duress in that it can hit turn 1-2 creatures AND spells, such as Top, Lackey, Goyf, CB, Hymn, as well as an advantage over Thoughtseize of not costing life, which is fairly important with Pox sending your life to 13 or lower and facing Burns decks or aggro. I was about to say that it sometimes sucks to not nab Force of Will or Goblin Ringleader, but it doesn't suck because it doesn't matter, the purpose of Inquistion is to not to get rid of their threats, but prevent any roadblocks to Pox before murdering their hand and ravaging their lands.
Life from the Loam - Life from the Loam is way better than Crucible of Worlds, and it is worth splashing green into Pox for Loam. Loam is cheaper than Crucible. This is pretty important. I need to be flexible with my Pox effects, even when it means going down to two lands in order to win. I don't have the luxury to wait forever to draw my third land and cast Crucible. Moreover, compared with Crucible, Loam can play through an opponent's countermagic with ease, barring Counterbalance. Lastly, but Loam can assist in providing gy fuel to cast Tombstalker, which I've had on multiple occasions. Furthermore, the best part about Loam in a Pox deck is the deck doesn't depend on Loam! Casting Loam once and getting an Ancestral Recall out of it is fine enough to happen once in a game. I pray the opponent brings in gy hate against me. I'm a Pox deck, not a Loam deck, I can and will still play like Pox even if you Extirpate my Loams.
Necroplasm - This is WAY better than Nether Spirit. I tried Nether Spirit before, it sucked HARD. If it had Deathtouch or if it was 3/3, I'd definitely play 3. But it's not, and thus awful. Necroplasm, however, is the shit. He's removal, and a finisher. It grows bigger every turn and it becomes big enough to swing in for a few damage before it kills itself. Did I not mention yet that it has DREDGE 2? That's the best part, you can kill, swing, and repeat again. How the hell is this NOT better than Nether Spirit?!
Mox Diamond - I found Mox Diamond to be pretty useful since it aids my ability to cast Life from the Loam, and enable some sick turn 1 plays.
I have more to say about my card choices and cards I tried that I ended up cutting, but I think I'll just save my discussion until someone asks a question or makes a suggestion to add those cards I ended up removing.
If u splash this deck with green (for life from the loam), u can also use pernicious deed and maelstrom pulse.
Necroplasm:
Nether spirit is better (imho) because u didn't have to dredge (it returns automatically), so he's faster than necroplasm.
I used necroplasm, and i can't use his removal ability, because he's too slow and he died first.
So, after all, nether spirit is better, because he's faster than necroplasm and necroplasm's ability isn't effective (playing against tier decks!).
A quick note for those trying to go the aggro way ( mujadaddy and other ) .
Someone created a thread about aggro pox , so I invite anyone willing to go aggro with 4 poxes to join here : http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Day-of-Disease
Myself , am getting bored of netheir spirit and going more and more the bloodghast way , so I 'll be there.
Wrong. Unless by 'faster' meaning you did NOT mean it kills creatures faster and kills your opponent faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordred
Nether Spirit is always a 2/2. Necroplasm can be a 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, and 4/4 before it dies. It doesn't matter if you don't kill any creatures, because it beats on its own. But it does kill creatures, Nether Spirit doesn't kill creatures no matter what you do, because it's a weak 2/2 with no other abilities. I'd only run Nether Spirit if Vampiric Tutor became unbanned, because then I'd be running Vamp, Entomb, and Nether Spirit to churn out turn 3 Contaminations :)
As for Pernicious Deed and Maelstrom Pulse, I almost cut my Tops for Pulses because I felt I needed more removal. However, I decided that I needed instant speed creature kill the most, so I decided to run Ghastly Demise over Top. I was going to touch on that next time I updated my post.
He has an interesting approach, however, I think the guy's manabase is extremely fragile. 20 lands is too light. I understand he doesn't want to be a slow Pox deck and run Crucible, which is why I didn't bring it up when I posted in his thread, but he should at least run Dakmor Salvage if he ever wants to cast his spells or trigger Bloodghast again. But if his manabase works for him, then I'll leave it at that.Quote:
Someone created a thread about aggro pox , so I invite anyone willing to go aggro with 4 poxes to join here : http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Day-of-Disease
Myself , am getting bored of netheir spirit and going more and more the bloodghast way , so I 'll be there.
I used to be a huge fan of Nihilith in this deck, I ran two of him, but as I played games, I never really won with him because I either won with Tombstalker, or Nihilith got removed, or I lost before I could even attack with him. Frankly, I think Nihilith is very underwhelming. If it had Suspend 4 instead of 7, then it would be a lot better, or it would actually be better than a 4/4 with Fear, he would be better than Tombstalker.
http://www.germagic.de/news/som_ratchet_bomb.jpg
ratchet_bomb instead of powder keg
My Pox Bg, 4th in a 24 players tournament:
Lands 23
8 Swamp
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Bayou
4 Twilight mire
2 Mishra's factory
Creatures 8
3 Nether Spirit
3 Tombstalker
2 chimeric idol
Spells 29
3 Culling Scales
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
3 Life from the loam
2 Pox
3 innocent blood
4 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Plague Boiler
Sideboard
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Sadistic Sacrament
SB: 3 Chalice of the void
SB: 3 Pitching Needle
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
Has anyone tried to use Call to the Netherworld? simply because it can remove creatures from your yard and re-activate nether spirit or even get a stalker back. It also makes discarding cards to pox so much easier when your actually using them and using them even better than you would if you couldnt discard.
Another possable inclusion is Brain Gorgers, thoughts?
I think, if you were going to use Brain Gorgers, you'd be better off with Big Game Hunter to make 100% sure you killed stuff, but that's not great in play without Equipment. Solid idea though, if you're going with mujadaddy's earlier idea of mimicking The Gate (which I like, for the record).Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Death01
Hey guys,
this is my first post here, and i m new to the source, although i ve beed reading this thread for quite some time now. I played mtg for many years as an on-off player, but i wouldnt consider myself very experienced. Anyway, i ve been trying to rebuild my old pox deck (i ve participated with a variant of it in a side tournament in athens grand prix in 2006 and in greek nationals a couple of years later, although without great success). This is the list i ve build so far, and any feedback will be greatly appeciated.
Lands (24)
4 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 x Mishra's Factory
3 x Cabal Pit
4 x Wasteland
4 x Snow-Covered Swamp
5 x Swamp
Creatures (6)
3 x Nether Spirit
3 x Tombstalker
Spells (30)
4 x Pox
4 x Smallpox
4 x Hymn to Tourach
4 x Inquisition of Kozilek
2 x Duress
4 x Innocent Blood
3 x Phyrexian Totem
2 x Crucible of Worlds
3 x Tainted Pact
a brief explanation
- Urborg : i find this card working much too good in this deck. Without it, i find myself struggling with mana, but even then im not sure of running 4. I believe though that an extra one can always be discarded or sac'ed to pox effects
- Innocent blood : i very much prefer it over other creature removals, mainly cause it can get rid of a possible turn 1 threat and with the creature destr going on here, very few times i found myself wanting something targeting. Sorcery speed is a big drawback, though.
- Nether Spirit : Although possibly Bloodghast works better with tombstalker and crucible, i find bloodghasts inability to block frustrating. I don't know though. I ll test it some more.
- Tainted Pact : i m surpriced i didnt see it on this thread (dont know if i missed it somewhere). Running no more than 4 cards with each name, i find it too good to be left out, mainly when you reach those situations when you have the upper hand but you lack a finisher (and i find pox running into those situations quite often). Few times it has failed me, and even then, it can get rid of some less important cards out of the way, when you need to topdeck something quickly. Instant speed is rocking here.
- Tombstalker : as it has been said many times here, imho its THE finisher for pox.
- Inquisition of Kozilek and Duress : i find inquisition better here, cause it can take care of early plays that can screw my game totally, be them spells or creatures.
- Crucible : Life from the loam maybe be better. But i dont know if i d splash green just for it. If i d run some more, like goyfs and stuff, i would, but thats a different deck strategy alright. Also i ll test it some more, maybe one more is worth it.
Dunno if a LD version would work better, but i ve tried it and most of the time i find LD irrelevant, since it wont provide you with a stable control of the board, unless the opponent is unlucky with his draws (legacy decks run too much land and too low costs anyway).
As for a sideboard, i d prob run some extirpates, some laylines, some solid mass creature removal (possibly a powder keg here) and prob some syphon life.
@Tyr
Do you really need a tutor? I understand it might give you a threat late game, but if that's what you want, just run more threats.
Cabal Pit seems downright worse than Mutavault. Sure they might StP your pit, but you run that risk anyways with Factory. And the ability to produce black mana doesn't matter too much when you run a full set of ToY's.
Your reasons for running no LD don't account for LD giving you an insane tempo advantage. Still, I'm fine if you don't run LD. Oh, and you run wasteland, "i find LD irrelevant" =P.
Some cards that I think really enhance the effectiveness of this deck (and haven't really been totally analyzed in this thread) are:
Rachet Bomb (better keg, finally have enchantment hate)
Phylactery Lich (really good with culling scales. there's potential to make pox a much more artifact-centric deck here)
ye your prob right about cabal pit. as i play this deck it seems to me that its not working so well as i might want. About LD, i didnt mean that LD is not good, i meant that i dont think its going to work so well if you base your deck around it, rather just trying to keep your opponent off-balance with pox-effects and wasteland.
Why are more people not running Nether Voids? I've been testing a version of this for a few weeks with that card in it and it's been pretty close to MVP for me. Against land light decks (zoo, other aggro), it basically shuts them out once I get to 4 lands and I can continue to cast stuff around it for the most part. I spend the early turns knocking out lands and then drop the Void and I can clean up whatever else was left with cheap removal - Smallpox, Innocent Blood, etc.
Here's my current version
Lands - 26
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
15 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Spells - 26
3 Nether Void (Tried 4 and it was too many)
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
3 Cabal Therapy
Creatures - 8 (still Work In Progress, this is kind of an open audition right now...)
2 Tombstalker
3 Bloodghast
3 Nantuko Shade
So far the Nantuko Shade seems the weakest from the creature suite and I'm leaning towards 4 Tombstalkers and 4 Bloodghasts for the mix here.
Would appreciate any conventional wisdom about this deck that I might not be aware of as it's still a pretty new one for me. In particular, I'm curious why more folks are not running Bloodghast and why nobody else runs Nether Voids? Am I missing something that everyone else has already discovered?
Also, would love any feedback on what types of decks are generally bad matchups for Pox as I want to be sure I'm testing against them.
@ Hook76:
- I for sure wouldn't run Nantuko Shade as it is mana-intensive, has no form of evasion and just dies to 12 of your spells. Maybe in your version it might be OK as it should easily become the biggest creature in a post-Nether Void world. Tombstalker and Nether Spirit/Bloodghast seem solid, I wouldn't run four Tombstalkers though. Imagine you casting one on turn four/five and removing from the yard your early turns work, thus emtying the yard. Then your opponent has Swords/Path/Bounce... How are you going to cast the second? You probably don't want to draw into two in your opening hand. Therefore, I consider three a decent number. If you want to run 8 beaters, consider the artifacts that become creatures (Chimeric Idol/Phyrexian Totem/...).
- Once you've decided on playing Nether Void and Tombstalker, consider Dark Ritual. This helps poxing the battlefield small before a Nether Void and makes turn two Nether Void possible (you're running 4 Wastelands and 4 Mishras!). What do you need Nether Void for? You're disrupting hand and land primarily. In order to sit comfortably under a Nether Void, you should have cleared the board of creatures before casting it. You don't want your opponent to have a Nacatl and a Goyf in play when you cast it. On the other hand, if you've managed to clear the board, why not drop Tombstalker and win? Can you say more on the matches in which Nether Void helps?
- That said, I think the really bad matchups, depending of course on your and their builds, are Zoo, Goblins, Berserk Stompy (and other fast Stompies) and especially Loam and Dredge. For the first three on this list your removal is likely to slow. While you're playing Hymns and Sinkholes, they're playing Lightning Bolt or Aether Vial (Ratchet Bomb in the Sideboard is good against this, as well as Engineered Plague, Dystopia and Infest). For the last two: you might end up helping them by letting them discard dredgers, plus Loam recovers fast. (Sideboard: graveyard hate). One matchup that seems near unwinnable to me is burn (Sideboard: -Pox, +Sheletered Valley?).
- You might consider Crucible of worlds in the main (instead of a Swamp), and exchanging Cabal Therapy for Duress (first turn reliable removal seems stronger to me).
- The disruption and the manabase seem strong.
With 4 Wasteland, 4 Pox and 4 Smallpox (and nonbasics) I would doubt your ability to be able cast many spells under Nether Void. Unless you're planning to win with Bloodghasts, but o me it seems that Nether Void is useful only when you're already in a better position, and still doesn't wins the game - but takes whole turn to cast and really disrupts your ability to deal with anthing already on table.
@Tourach
I actually have been finding Zoo to be a pretty easy matchup in the few games we've tested so far. Typical games are going something like:
T1 - Drop a Nacatl, I innocent blood it
T2 - Drop a beater, I sinkhole them
T3 - Drop a beater, I cast Hymn or another Blood/Sinkhole
T4 - Burn or beater, Drop Void
T5 - Cast Shade or Smallpox to stabilize
T6 - Clean up any remaining beaters, they are too land light to cast anything so I take my time and beat with Factories
That said, Pox (the card) is about useless here since I can't afford the life loss. I usually stabilize in mid-single digits with them only having a few lands left and not being able to break 4 for the rest of the game.
Void really shines in matchups that have cheap threats but are mana light because I don't need to worry about them topdecking a threat once it's down to do that last few damage as long as I keep them around 2 lands (which is very do-able given the land destruction count).
Vial decks are a beating since I can't use the same plan - mana denial followed by a Void to seal the deal. Ratchet bombs are definitely going to help. May even consider them maindeck?
Haven't played Dredge or Loam yet but I can imagine they are about unwinnable. Burn also seems bad. Appreciate the sideboard suggestions. Plague and Dystopia are in my current working version and the Bombs will be.
Will try Idol for a few of the Shades. Your take on Shade is about what I'm seeing. He's usually the best creature on the board once Void hits which is nice but I have to either hold him out or he dies to a lot of my removal. I'm leaning towards:
3 Stalkers
2 Ghasts
3 Idols
The Bloodghasts have a nice synergy with Cabal Therapies and I can often get a 2 for 1 here (either by hitting both or by flashing back). That said, I don't really need to hit more than 1 since I'm never racing with this build.
I had rituals and Chrome Mox in originally to speed up the board but the card disadvantage was killing me. I need every card to stabilize and clean up and these just didn't get it done. Plus they were a painfully bad draw once Void comes out (Ritual for 4 mana is some bad...). I find that in the matchups where I need the speed, I am not really wanting to cast Pox and then Void since I need every point of life. I also want to remove as much of their board before I drop the Void so I can afford to cast multiple cards. It surprised me a bit that these were so bad in here but I found the deck improved a lot once I cut the rituals and moxen for more answers and more land respectively.
I see u play idols and mishra's.. I think playing mishra's and idols together isn't very sinergic.. If u have both mishra and idols in play, u can activate only one.. Personally, I have dropped the idols and entered bloodghasts..Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook76