[Deck] Solidarity (Reset High Tide)

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

I find it ironic that neither of you actually played Flash the whole time.

EDIT: How in god's name did you lose to Meathooks considering you even had Snares for post-board Mages?

Re-Edit: Good job on beating Thresh and Belcher though. Those matches annoy me.

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1.) Flash is an obvious concern, but it isn't unwinnable for us. I got crushed recently when I played against Sadin's list, as Counterbalance is just too damn broken, but I am no longer going to be concerned about Flash after justice is done on June 1st. Also, Noobslayer didn't even play Solidarity at the GP. He ran 4c Gro I think.


2.) Meathooks was tough for me. I never drew a Spell Snare post-board, and he had a fast clock both games. Meathooks is like a bad version of Threshold, but it has all of the components that are really strong against Solidarity (i.e. Meddling Mage, Daze, Fow etc.) Meathooks is not an easy matchup at all in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by NANTUKO_SHADY

Meathooks is like a bad version of Threshold

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How is it worse exactly? IMO it is a better version of threshold, beating gobos and being much harder to hate out than either thresh or gobos.

Kronicler

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Originally Posted by NANTUKO_SHADY

2.) Meathooks was tough for me. I never drew a Spell Snare post-board, and he had a fast clock both games. Meathooks is like a bad version of Threshold, but it has all of the components that are really strong against Solidarity (i.e. Meddling Mage, Daze, Fow etc.) Meathooks is not an easy matchup at all in my opinion.

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Actually, didn't you die with a Spell Snare in hand 2nd game? I think you were saving it for a Meddling Mage which never came. And you got stuck on 3 lands, which didn't help your cause.

Shady speaks the truth. I did not play Solidarity. However, now that Flash is banned, I will be once again. My deck will remain the same however, as I enjoy having access to stifle in the board. (It means I get to board 8 cards in the mirror, w00t)

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Originally Posted by Kronicler

How is it worse exactly? IMO it is a better version of threshold, beating gobos and being much harder to hate out than either thresh or gobos.

Kronicler

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Tormod's Crypt, Leyline of the Void.... Tarmogoyf says hi.

Threshold can beat Goblins, but just not as well as I thought it would. Most losses you have against Goblins were due to play mistakes or you werent patient enough and couldnt stabilize when a random warcheif comes down and starts picking at you. Thankfully, Tarmogoyf is printed... now the deck is busted.

But if I had to choose, I'd probably run Meat Hooks against all things creature mirrors if I expect decks like RGSA and the like. Threshold should be chosen for the general meta if you expect Storm combo and such.

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Originally Posted by Volt

Actually, didn't you die with a Spell Snare in hand 2nd game? I think you were saving it for a Meddling Mage which never came. And you got stuck on 3 lands, which didn't help your cause.

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Ahhh, right. Now I remember. I didn't take notes that match but I believe you were correct. I just sat there on 3 lands getting bashed by Slivers. Bad beatz.

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Originally Posted by Kronicler

How is it worse exactly? IMO it is a better version of threshold, beating gobos and being much harder to hate out than either thresh or gobos.

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It's worse against combo.


...So, has anything changed now that we're post-Flash as far as Solidarity goes?

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

It's worse against combo.


...So, has anything changed now that we're post-Flash as far as Solidarity goes?

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Well, I certainly wouldn't stuff the sideboards with Stifles or Spell Snares, but maybe you do want them for TES or CRET Belcher. hmmmmm....

Attempting Spell Snare is still interesting to me. It's a single blue and stops almost all the cards we fear most: Meddling Mage, Chalice of the Void, Counterbalance, Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole, and various combo Tutors like Infernal Tutor and Burning Wish.

Stifle fills a different function and gives us fight against faster combo decks. Rocks against TES and Zomg Belcher.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

It's worse against combo.


...So, has anything changed now that we're post-Flash as far as Solidarity goes?

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We are OBV. very happy about Flash getting the axe. We can now feel "ok" about playing Solidarity, since it isn't automatically an inferior combo deck anymore, back when Flash was legal. After June 20th, the only changes I would advise would be to MAYBE cut the Spell Snares and go back to your original board, but I am rather fond of Spell Snare, and I will probably leave it in until it proves otherwise to me.

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Originally Posted by NANTUKO_SHADY

We are OBV. very happy about Flash getting the axe. We can now feel "ok" about playing Solidarity, since it isn't automatically an inferior combo deck anymore, back when Flash was legal. After June 20th, the only changes I would advise would be to MAYBE cut the Spell Snares and go back to your original board, but I am rather fond of Spell Snare, and I will probably leave it in until it proves otherwise to me.

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I'm going to be disappointed if Solidarity falls all the way to being "ok." It's the only combo deck I've ever had that I actually seriously enjoy playing short of, like, Gamekeeper Salvagers.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

I'm going to be disappointed if Solidarity falls all the way to being "ok." It's the only combo deck I've ever had that I actually seriously enjoy playing short of, like, Gamekeeper Salvagers.

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Ahh, I typed that weird. I didn't mean to say Solidarity is "ok" as in an ok quality deck. I meant that we can play Solidarity at major tournaments and feel good about our decision, knowing there isn't a combo deck out there that completely trumps us. (i.e. Flash) With Flash gone, I don't see why Solidarity would be a wrong choice to play.

I too agree in a sense. I think that at local tournaments Solidarity is more than a fine deck choice. I feel however, that if I were to participate in a larger event (say a Grand Prix), I would be more comfortable in choosing a deck like threshold or goblins, as I feel they can answer more, and hold their own better in the grueling rounds of play. I still advocate Solidarity as a deck to watch despite this.

So, like, uh, I don't know if anyone at all is still playing the green splash, but if they are, I have tech to share that's either genius or horrible.

How do people feel about Quirion Dryad for Fish/Thresholdy type matches? I've been unable to get consistently good results with the U/G Determined-carrying build against Meddling Mage-packing decks. So I tried it out, and found three things:

1. I was quickly able to build it up to ridiculous proportions of the 6/6 to 7/7 range.

2. Playing it on turn 2 often wasn't the best idea. I seemed to have better results playing it around turn 4 (With Determined/Twincast/Remand/Reset mana open.)

3. I never fizzled out because of it, as far as I could tell. If I had it, I used it to kill. If I didn't, either they didn't get a mage and I could fight through the counterwall, or they had a mage or an overwhelming barrage of counters.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

So, like, uh, I don't know if anyone at all is still playing the green splash, but if they are, I have tech to share that's either genius or horrible.

How do people feel about Quirion Dryad for Fish/Thresholdy type matches? I've been unable to get consistently good results with the U/G Determined-carrying build against Meddling Mage-packing decks. So I tried it out, and found three things:

1. I was quickly able to build it up to ridiculous proportions of the 6/6 to 7/7 range.

2. Playing it on turn 2 often wasn't the best idea. I seemed to have better results playing it around turn 4 (With Determined/Twincast/Remand/Reset mana open.)

3. I never fizzled out because of it, as far as I could tell. If I had it, I used it to kill. If I didn't, either they didn't get a mage and I could fight through the counterwall, or they had a mage or an overwhelming barrage of counters.

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I really like this idea, and I think it definately needs some testing. Especially since every deck will board out any kind of creature removal, giving your Dryads a very good chance of buying you many turns.

I've been thinking about a lot of really weird things to try to improve my matchups which are present in my meta. I tought about Repeals, to buy you a lot of time, some Misdirections in the SB to board in and even Teferi (which is probably horrible....)

Well, Misdirection seems like some tech for the Black Disruption with beats matchup...deals with Sinkhole, Hymn to Tourach, Vindicate...Imagine if they keep a two land hand and go Sinkhole on you, then you blow up THEIR land instead...

Another card that is ignored that is simply amazing versus Fish is Drop of Honey/Porphyry Nodes. Besides being a Meddling Mage killer it very efficiently stalls the game. It can easily buy you until turn 8.

You play it turn 3 or whenever they manage to get 2 creatures down. They cannot race the card so they have to stop playing creatures. This automatically buys you until turn 5. On there turn 5/6 they now get their first opportunity to play creatures. Since their creatures don’t have haste and your life total should be somewhere around 10-12, you very easily get 2-3 more turns from here unless one of those creatures is a second Meddling Mage, so you have to go off in response on turn five.

Since Fish/Thres has a relatively low creature count many times the Node will kill all the creatures the player had and about 30% of the time the Node alone can buy you into turn 12 or so.

I actually like the idea of Drop of Honey. I'm not sure how viable it would be, but have a couple of Drop of Honeys in my collection and don't know what to do with them. I will at least try it out... it sounds quite good against Fish and Threshold (especially since it doesn't need to target Mongoose anymore after the last errata).

Does anyone have other good suggestions for the green splash?

I think that about covers it. Green has a big three:

Bound//Determined: Draws out counters or clears the path for a win. Also negates Chalice of the Void @ 1 counter. Has a downside of not letting Remand act as additional Brain Freezes and consequently makes you a little more vulnerable to Stifle.

Quirion Dryad: Alternate kill condition. Capable of reaching anywhere from 7/7 to 10/10 or higher in one turn with a mini combo-out, where the goal is merely to play as many spells as possible. Is less effective if the opponent guesses to keep a creature removal spell or two in.

Drop of Honey: Sweeps Meddling Mages, stalls for time. Is less effective if the opponent has 3+ creatures on the board or guesses to keep an enchantment removal spell or two in.

The only other cards I've considered much are Krosan Grip, which never seemed all that amazing to me, and Sandstorm, which is strictly a metagame call against Goblins and Empty the Warrens.

Quirion Dryad: You also can berserk it or Turnabout your opponent's creatures :)