I already play U/B ANT. Just learning about the DD plan now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
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I already play U/B ANT. Just learning about the DD plan now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
My experience with Reanimator is much the same as Pulp_Fiction: Emrakul is golden.
Some Reanimator players (well not just Reanimator players) bring in stuff like Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm and similar stuff. The Emrakul plan doesn't mind Iona or even an active Jin Gitaxis.
This Wednesday my opponent playing Reanimator said something like "Never thought you could win like that". Plus there are people that let DD resolve so they can nail one of our spells in the chain (MED for instances), now imagine resolving DD and making a Emrakul pile: game.
Once people stop playing cards that randomly RAPE Doomsday, I will try playing it. Until then, I think TES is just the best Storm deck, with High Tide coming in a very close second. For whatever it's worth, DD is definitely better than ANT.
I use Defense Grid in TES and DDFT sideboard. I'm more than happy to have them especially that this is quite a new tech. You people should really try it and remember the face of your opponents when you play it :D The only thing against Defense Grid is that in heavy Hive Mind metagame having Pact of Negation is a little better plan in DDFT SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by metalhead
I was thinking the same for some time. I had more fun and felt more strong with TES in hands but it was only a personal conviction. Now with even more chants/silence effects you can greatly improve your defense versus random failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
How does Chant stop a resolved Grindstone? Or other such random ass cards. It's infinitely frustrating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviruchi
Make a DD pile with Shelldock Isle and 2-3 Emrakul.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
Draw into Shelldock with your cantrip, play it and look his face when he revealed another Emrakul.
what kind of plan should this be?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocho
First, most DDFT lists play Emrakul only postboard. Your opponent will have Crypt then
Second, how/why on earth would you want a second Emrakul? Paniter/Grindstone is not such a bad matchup that youŽd like to dedicate those slots for it
However, until now IŽm 6-1 against Painter/Grindstone. Preboard the matchup is about/slightly favored for DDFT since apart from his cantrips, heŽll only have Intuition to find his combo pieces. Most of the times, DDFT (just like TES) is just faster here. Postboard youŽll have a shitload of Artifact bounce to steal some time.
In general I think there are alway "random cards" that "rape" any deck. The whole thing about DDFT is the improved versatility to give you an out of bad situations. Maybe you wanna give it a try?
I've played Doomsday many times. It was insanely good with Mystical Tutor. After Mystical got banned, I played Doomsday for about 4 months, until Survival got big then I switched to TES because it was faster and could more consistently race Survival. Haven't looked back since.Quote:
Originally Posted by DerFern
Maybe we should steer this thread away from the TES vs DD. direction?
Anyone aside from myself with actual results in testing defense grid? It seems that if it sticks its almost identical to a silence going off within the first few turns of the game. It for certain has replaced Xantid Swarm.
At lorddotm's suggestion I took Defense Grid to SCG Atlanta with a UBw 7x Chant list w Emrakul main. I hadn't played DD in a while and have mainly been focused on Manaless Dredge but I went 1-2, beating Merfolk and losing to Mono-U 22 counter.dec and Bant. Now it should be noted that I had pretty marginal draws and kept 1 ... maybe 2 full hands out of 6 games and mulled to 5 once. The deck was just unkind to me that day so I would certainly say luck played a big part.
Defense Grid is a HOUSE against Merfolk. I IGGed out both games, and I liked the card, but I still wanted Pithing Needle and discard. Here is why, Top meets MM everytime. They never counter Ponder or BS, Top hits it EVERY time. Playing 7 Chants is awesome and makes IGG good again, but I just wanted discard and Needle in the Chant and Grid spots. I like Needle against Stoneforge bullshit since I can either name Wasteland or the creature itself and win with Emrakul or buy time. Not having discard to stop MM was really pissing me off cause Top gets countered then I just floundered around trying to find Chant+Cantrip+DD. Now I am not saying Defense Grid is bad ... because it is awesome, but when playing 7 Chants you have NO answer for unexpected hate cards.
I mean, I had 3x Thoughtseize in the board for aggro but .... with Grid ... Chants are just better. Maybe there is some kind of combination that can be made to maximize the effectiveness of Grid like 4x Silence 3x Thoughtseize (or vice versa) ... but for now, here is what I went back to and I am REALLY liking how it plays:
4x Burning Wish
4x Thoughtseize
4x Dark Ritual
4x LED
3x Ponder
3x Duress
4x Brainstorm
3x Doomsday
4x Top
2x Cabal Ritual
4x Petal
1x Tendrils
1x Cloud of Faeries
1x Meditate
1x Emrakul
4x Polluted Delta
3x Bloodstained Mire
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Sea
1x Badlands
1x Volcanic Island
1x Island
1x Swamp
1x City of Brass
1x Shelldock Isle
SB
Wish Targets
1x Tendrils
1x EtW
1x DD
1x Meltdown
1x Gitaxian Probe
3x Pithing Needle
2x Darkblast
2x Wipe Away
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Echoing Truth
I have very much liked this so far. As soon as I got home I started fiddling around because DD is better than 1-2 drop, luck or not, the deck is better than that. emidln and I were talking about BW VS Infernal and I chose to play Infernal since I hate the 18x land 4c manabase. BW is strictly better and Blue-blast is still a problem in my meta ... but I think its worth it for the versatility and the fact it doesn't suck. I can post my SCG list if anyone is interested but with such a dismal finish I figured no one would care.
I am really liking this list here (for the day it has been together) and while I still think Grid has serious potential, 7x Discard + Needle + SI is still that good. BTW, the more I have played around w Emrakul the more weird stacks I come up with. Cloud of Faeries replaces IGG in the list due to how easy it is to win and how little mana you need after a resolved DD. Perhaps a Stifle in the board would be necessary but ... this is still a rough draft. Just the fact that all you need is Top in play or BS in hand and 1U floating after DD is all it takes to pop an Emrakul out with CoF. Its pretty sick. I really like the card, but as popular as Wasteland is, if they KNOW you play this, they always have to keep it open after turn 2 though. Because you can reliably do this sooo easily. Sorry, thats a big wall of text. Thoughts?
I don't feel like SI+Emrakul is safe MD unless you also have 1 Needle MD. Wasteland is EVERYWHERE right now. Of the top decks I can only think of NoRUG and opposing combo decks that don't pack the full 4. It seems like wasted maindeck slots that rely on luck or a poor opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Either pack Stifle (which can be good vs. several decks) or play needle naming Wasteland before you want to go off with Shelldock. Best position for that is ofc BS after DD...with 3 Needles u may be able to cast it proactively though...
On the whole mistep hitting top thing I think running 4 maindeck gitaxian probes in a burning wish version makes the matchups with missteps easier and also allows you to still run the 7 chant effects maindeck. If you don't like 7 i would be running 4 duress 3 chants. Here's the current list I play and will probably play in the next SCG open in Nashville.
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Dark Ritual
4 Orim's Chant
3 Doomsday
3 Silence
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Meditate
1 Rain of Filth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
SIDEBOARD
1 Doomsday
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Edge of Autumn
1 Duress
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Defense Grid
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Disfigure
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Time Spiral
1 Diminishing Returns
If you play 4 Gitaxian Probe in addition to playsets of Brainstorm, Ponder and Sensei's Divining Top, you really should pack Ideas Unbound over Meditate. You get to play piles with less mana requirements that create an equally amount of storm. If you don't know what I'm talking about, check the pile document in emidln's signature and search for Ideas Unbound double cantrip piles. Other than that, the main looks solid, even though I would cut two Lotus Petal to play additional lands. I don't understand the Diminishing Returns in your board. You can afford to go for Time Spiral most of the times and you want to got for it most of the times, because other than TES, you always want to hit your landdrops early on and have some in play, when going off. Diminishing Returns really should be a Deathmark, because you have no way to handle Gaddock Teeg preboard. I don't know if it is that big of a deal in america, but here in germany Gaddock Teeg is in a lot of mains. ;)
When is it that people are generally casting the one-of Time Spirals I see running around sideboards. Just a better version of Diminishing Returns?
Yes. It's the emergency storm button, when playing Burning Wish, because Ill-Gotten Gains is worse without Infernal Tutor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chikenbok
Maybe I'll give the BW list a shot over Infernal Tutor, and perhaps even try discard of chant effects but I've been having decent results just running UBw.
Last question for the evening - I understand the mandatory 1 of petal in the deck but why is it that some people chose to run a full set, sometimes 3. I suppose the question is, in a deck that isn't designed to simply crap out 10 storm and pew pew the opponent, are petals really optimal after the first?
I don't think so. I even thought about playing without Petal in my Burning Wish list, because there aren't many piles with Ideas Unbound that need a Lotus Petal. I had 59 cards of my deck built and Petal was the last card I added, because it is the next best acceleration spell after Dark Ritual, Lion's Eye Diamond and the 1-off Rain of Filth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chikenbok
But I might go back to play more Petals, because in a four colour list, they are really good at fixing your mana. In testing I lost a small amount of games, because my lands didn't produce the needed colour of mana.
Would you mind sharing your list? I take it you're running UBRw?
If so I'd be interested in seeing the build.
4 BrainstormQuote:
Originally Posted by Chikenbok
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Burning Wish
3 Doomsday
1 Ideas Unbound
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Rain of Filth
2 Lotus Petal
4 Orim's Chant
3 Silence
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
1 Tundra
2 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
Board:
1 Duress
1 Deathmark
1 Doomsday
1 Infernal Contract
1 Time Spiral
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Pact of Negation
I'm currently working on the numbers of lands/petals I play. I already removed a land from my list to make room for an additional Petal. The second Volcanic could also be a Badlands or the third Underground Sea. I'm also propably going to cut Tendrils of Agony from my main, if I find myself not using it enough in testing.