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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Commons and uncommons were removed from the Reserved list in 2002.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...com/daily/rb29
Clone was reprinted then, and Psionic Blast and Berserk were reprinted long after they were removed from the list. The recent Reserve List update that removed the possibility of foil versions being printed made it clear that this was IT, that no more changes would be made.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tha Gunslinga
Commons and uncommons were removed from the Reserved list in 2002.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...com/daily/rb29
Clone was reprinted then, and Psionic Blast and Berserk were reprinted long after they were removed from the list. The recent Reserve List update that removed the possibility of foil versions being printed made it clear that this was IT, that no more changes would be made.
Do you honestly believe that this is it? You've played forever, haven't you? Read this:
http://crystalkeep.com/magic/misc/reprint1999.php
Namely:
"Accordingly, we have created a list of "reserved" cards that we will never print again in a black or white border in a functionally identical form."
Never is a very strong word.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
You're talking apples and oranges. Wizards was a completely different company in 1999 (or even 2002), for starters. Liberalizing the reserved list after the initial announcement is one thing - suddenly going ultra-conservative after years of liberalization and after the most intensive study Wizards has ever given the subject is quite another. There's no analogue.
You can't look at the circumstances around last year's restricted list policy announcement and think that change is going to happen quicker than many years - if ever.
The reserved list is utterly irrelevant to legacy at this point. Something else will give long before the reserved list does.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tha Gunslinga
So, Starcitygames.com is currently undercutting everyone on Findmagiccards.com on Green Sun's Zenith, by $1 minimum. They're selling at $5.99 when the cheapest anywhere else is $6.99. Is anyone complaining about that?
It's worth pointing out that there are businesses that are undercutting SCG too. I know of a couple :tongue:
There's always ways to get cards cheaper. You don't always have to go to the big guns. Little specialty stores don't have anywhere near the inventory of a SCG or channelfireball, but they're going to be cheaper most of the time.
Plus Ebay has been and always will be the great equalizer.
Right now SCG is buying legacy staples higher than alot of what they go on ebay for, but that's because they're trying to fight ebay. When you buy above what the card goes for on the biggest selling site in the world (yes ebay is bigger than SCG), you have to sell higher to make a profit.
If they are buying forces at $60 and selling at $90, even though you can still get forces at $60-70 on ebay... they are going to lose that war in the long run. Yes, forces were 'only' $40-50 a month ago and they actually increased because of SCG's buy prices... but ebay is always going to be cheaper. Always.
I can't really say I approve of SCG trying to completely control the secondary market, but then again I'm biased since I'm just a little shop. I don't have anywhere near the level of reach or scale of SCG and definitely am not near their level of profits :laugh: Their current buying spree admiteddly does make it harder to get some singles, but I still can usually match or come close to what the big guys are offering if not in cash then in store credit. So for the most part I get the singles I can and still manage to offer them low and filter them out to people who are actually trying to play with them.
Magic singles is a ridiculously cut-throat business right now and there are alot of miserly people out there that negatively affect the marketplace. It's hard to keep singles low when you've got people who literally just want to buy out your entire card stock so they can sell to scg. It is what it is. Magic is very hot right now, particularly legacy, and that's mainly why the price of cardboard is going through the roof. There are merchants who are taking advantage of that as best they can and that's their right. I try not to be one of them.
I don't think the current state of card prices is good for the format and it leaves alot of stores with duals and other staples some very hard choices. Like as a smaller store, do i put all my duals in the case at reasonable prices so they can instantly be bought out and re-sold to other places? Do I match the bigger retailers with unreasonable prices?
Personally I choose to do neither and just give away my bigger ticket items in tournaments. It's the fairest way to filter duals out to the local community and gives everyone a shot to win them who wants to try. Plus I'm still able to make a profit while looking at myself in the mirror :laugh:
My business model is much different from others but I'm also a one man show. I don't really condemn bigger operations like SCG who are exploiting the market right now. They are in position to do that so they have the right to.
Eventually forces/duals and other staples will fall back to earth as will their card prices. You aren't going to see revised Seas eclipsing Moxen in price. Ever. If somehow that ever happens and legacy still retains the current level of popularity it has now, then serious discussions about getting rid of the reserved list deserve to happen.
But single prices aren't that much out of whack. And I doubt they will ever get to that level of absurdness where a set of seas is $1,000. Like I said earlier, Ebay is the great eqaulizier and it keeps everyone honest. You can't price gouge with ebay around. Not in the long term anyway.
It's fascinating to watch this whole thing unfold. You get SCG setting the tone on the market, then all these local stores follow suit and try to match or even beat SCG's buy prices... but then they can't turn the singles around for enough of a profit margin because they aren't SCG =p
Personally I don't try to be something I'm not. I know an entity like SCG is going to pay higher cash than me on big ticket stuff most of the time. But that doesn't discourage me either. I have my model and they have theirs. I just wish one entity didn't have so much control over the market right now.
In the long term things will go back to normal, or at least deflated prices. As players that's the best you can hope for.
- Dave
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
The biggest thing about this dramatic price increase for older guys who have been playing since the begining and still do this as a hobby have to look at their collection and go hmmm... I can put a down payment on a house, fund my IRA or child's 529, buy a boat, etc. What I am getting at is that with the new buy list prices my collection is worth considerably more.
The other question I have for everyone is who the hell is buying $100 dual lands since it is apparently no one on the source given the amount of kavetching here?
Also, I think it is quite ballsy of SCG to keep raising the buy list prices. However, if Pete says I can't keep card X in stock at Y price then it would be bad business not to raise prices and get some stock of the card. Basically the only thing worse for a business than not selling something because your price is too high is not to have the product at all and tell the customer to look elsewhere. To sell more of a card all that you have to do is lower the price until you get rid of enough. However, you can't make the card out of thin air to satisfy your customer.
Quote me, when I can easily get $100 per Wasteland and assuming the rest of the staples increased at a similar percentage I'm selling EVERYTHING and buying a (racing) sailboat.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.C
Do you honestly believe that this is it? You've played forever, haven't you? Read this:
http://crystalkeep.com/magic/misc/reprint1999.php
Namely:
"Accordingly, we have created a list of "reserved" cards that we will never print again in a black or white border in a functionally identical form."
Never is a very strong word.
Well, Magic was created in 1993, the first Reserved List change was in 2002, the second was in 2010, so we're on schedule for another one in 2017 or 2018. Have fun waiting.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tha Gunslinga
Well, Magic was created in 1993, the first Reserved List change was in 2002, the second was in 2010, so we're on schedule for another one in 2017 or 2018. Have fun waiting.
Creation was 1995. Revision 1 was 1999. Revision 2 was 2002. Revision 3 was 2010. Wizards is very inconsistent. 4 different versions of "cards we will never reprint".
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jazzykat
Quote me, when I can easily get $100 per Wasteland and assuming the rest of the staples increased at a similar percentage I'm selling EVERYTHING and buying a (racing) sailboat.
I will quote you, and probably join you. how else will we lower the prices to help all the fledgling SCG Open grinders? :)
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.C
Creation was 1995. Revision 1 was 1999. Revision 2 was 2002. Revision 3 was 2010. Wizards is very inconsistent. 4 different versions of "cards we will never reprint".
Alpha was released in 1993. Dunno about the other dates, but the game was definitely born in 1993.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dragon_Whelp
Alpha was released in 1993. Dunno about the other dates, but the game was definitely born in 1993.
He meant the creation of the reserved list.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kusumoto
He meant the creation of the reserved list.
Ah. Gotcha.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rukcus
I will quote you, and probably join you. how else will we lower the prices to help all the fledgling SCG Open grinders? :)
Count me in also. I'm going to pay off my mortgage and live bill free from here. When even my fun decks are $3000 decks now, it's time to call it a day and play EDH only.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
just curious, what's the price on a korean null rod and korean sphere of resistance? (anyone have an idea?)
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Around $80-$100 depending on condition. $70 if you're lucky on Ebay. I believe Spheres are currently in more demand than Null Rod.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Just a heads up; Karn is pre-selling on starcity for 50. This is the crap i'm talking about.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Because he clearly is a playable Planeswalker like Koth, Tiriel, and Venser who also presaled $50. I can totally see Standard players using his ultimate instead of cycling Vindicates and Discard.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
If those previous planeswalkers are any indication, let them presale for $50, then pick them up in 2 years when they are $12.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
Just a heads up; Karn is pre-selling on starcity for 50. This is the crap i'm talking about.
They're ebaying at $50 in presales. What, Starcity should charge below market now?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Last 3 auctions finished respectively at 242, 260 and now 275$ for playsets of Wastelands... Things are getting more retarded by the day...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rukcus
If those previous planeswalkers are any indication, let them presale for $50, then pick them up in 2 years when they are $12.
Someone needs to tell Nicol Bolas to go down to $12 so I can get one for EDH/Commander!
