Do you guys feel that these black decks without hymn is too slow for this format now?
I mean with that devil guy, and temporal, black loses lots and lots of tempo.
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Do you guys feel that these black decks without hymn is too slow for this format now?
I mean with that devil guy, and temporal, black loses lots and lots of tempo.
I run a similar list with a green splash for Krosan Grips and Chokes in the board. The Grips are great against Batterskull and Aether Vial especially.Quote:
Originally Posted by xdavisx
How did you like running the Faerie Macabres in the main?
ooooo Choke sounds spicy, that would of been nice against all the blue decks I was stuck playing against. Faerie Macabres were great throughout the day. Luckly I didn't go against dredge or reanimator, but the card was good for me all day. I exiled many lingering souls and snapcaster mage targets and I think it deserves it's slot in the main board.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoxBropal
If you're going to splash green I recommend you investigate Eva-Green. Otherwise Mono Black still has the option of Null Rods completely shuts down Equipments and most Artifacts, and possibly Ratchet Bomb (bit slow for my tastes).
Speaking of Null Rods, I've been reading this thread and I've been meaning to ask: As a sideboard option, under what circumstances would one board a Null Rod into The Gate, and how/when would they cast it?
I ask because it shuts down the Jittes that this deck. So the Null Rods are just cast when we're losing the Artifact Equipment battle? Boarded in against Stoneblade decks? Would one board out some Jittes then?
Lastly: I see Manriki-Gusari gets mentioned in this thread, with what I think is a similar purpose, but more targeted removal of Artifact Equipments. What do people think of Gate to Phyrexia as a sideboard option in this deck, to cover any Artifact threat, equipment or not?
Depends on the deck your playing. Jitte is not a necessary win condition, but I do find myself boarding it out sometimes depending on the deck. If you are facing ANT there isn't really a need to use them, but against tribal/vial I keep them.Quote:
Originally Posted by berksowl
Well I do not think the Gate runs enough creatures to make Gate to Phyrexia worthwhile, except when bitterblossom is in play. Besides the archetype I can think of that runs non-activated artifacts worth worrying about is STAX/Prison decks but they tend not to see competitive play.
Null Rods are good against combo and affinity. It depends on your match up if you'd want to take out Jitte's for Rods.
Null Rod kills all combo artifact mana + wasteland = buys you enough time to kill em if not instant gg.
Manriki Gusari feels a bit random if you're just going to run it as a 1 of, since you wouldn't be able to tutor it.
I was wondering if you guys could give me some sideboarding tips for certain matchups. I run a pretty standard Gate build and am unsure on what to board out in certain matchups. For instance, what should come out against:
U/W Stoneblade
Vial Goblins
Burn
Tendrils
Dredge
Aggro Loam
Any tips would be much appreciated.
It depends on what you're running on your board.
I wouldn't really know what specific cards to board in and out since you didn't give out your list. However, if I was the one playing against those decks you mentioned I'll be taking out:
Tendrils:
- take out some removal, since they don't have creatures anyway.
+ I'll either put in combo hate (null rods,chalice of the void) with graveyard hate (macabre,extirpate). Sometimes I side in engineered plague for EtW goblins.
Dredge:
- minus discard, I run thoughtseize, so I automatically remove those. I keep cabal therapies or hymns in, we still need to hit their discard outlets or recurring lands (breakthrough,careful study,undiscovered paradise)
+ graveyard hate (extirpate,surgical extraction,macabre,relic of prog ... You get my point)
In general, I board in extirpate and/or pithing needles. Taking out key spells and disabling equipments or fetchlands.
Main point is take out things that were not really useful on game 1 and replace it with something relevant to your opponents game plan.
Here's the version of this deck I've put together:
Creatures
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Dark Confidant
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
Planeswalkers
2 Liliana of the Veil
Spells
4 Bitterblossom
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Dark Ritual
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Umezawa's Jitte
Land
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Polluted Delta
11 Swamp
2 Wasteland
SB
2 Duress
2 Dystopia
2 Engineered Plague
2 Massacre
2 Null Rod
2 Pithing Needle
2 Soul Spike
1 Tormod's Crypt
I've had just a little bit of time to playtest this deck. I beat up on a Sliver deck, and on some Burn decks. And I went 1-1 against a Sneak and Show deck, which was a pretty scary experience especially during the first game which he won on Turn 3.
So against Sneak and Show, I played IoK on Turn 1 and saw his Sneak Attack, but I couldn't take it, or get a Cabal Therapy to take it. He had played two Lotus Petals and played Sneak Attack during Turn 3, at which point I knew I was done for. I had a Gatekeeper in hand when he played Sneak Attack, but Turn 4 he played two Progenitus, so game over.
Against a creature/combo deck like this, I guess Duress should be boarded in to get Sneak Attack and/or Show and Tell, as should Pithing Needles (to target Sneak Attack). Would anyone board in a Null Rod to hopefully take out the Lotus Pedals, and slow down their combo, even given that Null Rod seems like it hurts The Gate a lot too?
Progenitus is legendary. Your opponent shouldn't have been able to put both into play.
Ah, you're right. :eyebrow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignasty197
He did, and I was too stunned to object.
I played The Gate again last night at a local tournament of about 25 people.
First round I played against Enchantress. I won the first game before he could get going, by dropping Dark Ritual, Liliana of the Veil on Turn 1. The next two games I was done in by his combos, and by Solitary Confinement and Elephant Grass.
The other remarkable match-up was against a Reanimator deck, where I was totally hosed in two games by Iona, Shield of Emeria.
Against Enchantress, I was obviously lacking enchantment removal. What would people bring in their sideboard to a local meta where they expected to see at least one or two Enchantress decks? I was thinking Contamination, which I know has been discussed quite a bit in this thread. Or maybe Infernal Darkness, which was suggested to me by one of the more experienced players at the tournament.
And then maybe something like Nevinyrral's Disk to wipe the board clean if I get devastated by cards like Solitary Confinement, Elephant Grass, or Iona.
Anyway, it was a rough night. (But it's okay, because I'm learning.)
Technically, enchantress is bad matchup. The only real way to defend against it is dystopia and make them discard their cards (duress, liliana, hymn), and then you could still get destroyed by replenish, so some graveyard hate is also good.You can run also run Nevinyrral's Disk, but when it is decent against enchantress, it's not that good against everything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by berksowl
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
Also, I was thinking about Ratchet Bomb to wipe away some enchantments. But anyway, I did board in Dystopia. It had some effect, but not enough.
But at my last tournament i realized another problem: the goblin matchup. Ok in both games i was screwed on two lands thanks to his ports, but hey after 2 ringleaders there was absolutly no chance of winning one game. I know on the paper the matchup seems to be an 50%-matchup, but on sunday the reality one again showed how fast goblins can be even if you can kill his first turn lackys:([/QUOTE]
how about contagion honey? they usually hurt weenie decks..just a suggestion..
Here's my mono black hand / land destruction build, slight variation but works well
4 x snuff out
4 x dark ritual
4 x diregraf ghoul
4 x duress ( need inquisitions )
3 x diabolic edict
4 x hymn to tourach
4 x sinkhole
3 x nantuko shade
3 x stromgald crusader
3 x umezawas jitte
4 x hypnotic specter
4x wasteland
16 x swamp
sb
4 x leyline of the void
4 x chalice of the void
1 x diabolic edict
3 x gatekeeperof malakir
3 x dystopia
i keep winning with this build, sinkholes and hymns with wastelands and duress/inquisition, with removal and creatures plus jittes is lethal. Old school but overlooked. Playtest it and see.
Unfortunately this is not The Gate. In your build i still would consider Bob, because he's just a blast and ritual into discard+ bob is just sick .
Quote:
Originally Posted by orcanmail
1. Dystopia, if landed early, can wreck havoc. Couple it with Liliana and bad things can happen for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by berksowl
2. Contamination is useless once they have a land with Utopia Sprawl and/or Wild Growth on them.
I'm thinking of building the gate, but a few glaring issues I want to ask about first:
1) How do we deal with the white leyline? Cry deeply?
2) Lilliana pro and cons?
3) If going the non-wasteland route, how is lashwrith? I remember standard infect (gasp! how dare I mention it) ran it and did hilarious things with lifelink and infect.
4) As odd as it may seem, against creature heavy decks, would avatar of woe be any good? (I don't think so, but given how easily graveyards can fill with this deck, I think she should at least be discussed, given reasons why she's terrible, and move on)