[Deck] U/R Delver

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Originally Posted by mextremartini

I think the idea of the deck seams right, however, I am not positive that stifle would fit in a pyromancer-cantrip shell. Here we are looking to cantrip and deploy treats and make dudes. We cannot only hold mana for stifle, otherwise our creatures wont grow.
With that said, I am more inclined to -4stifle for 2 chain/2pierce
Also, i think 2 cruise should be enough.

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Stifle is great with Young Pyromancer.

I don't know which deck you play that you think all mana is used on cantrips all the time. Once you have a YP in play you can keep up mana.

Grixis Tempo lists usually played Delver, Dark Confidant, Young Pyromancer, Daze, Stifle, FoW, Probe, Ponder, Brainstorm, Lightning Bolt..

Not sure if I really love Monestary Swiftspear. The card goads you into playing spells on your turn when you otherwise would not do it.

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Originally Posted by kaminamina

In my experience, UR has two routes it can take. You can go the burn/aggro route or the tempo route.

In a tempo shell you want wasteland, pyromancer, daze, and probably stifle. You can also run snapcaster.

In a burn shell you want goblin guide, price of progress, snapcaster, and you specifically DON'T want stifle and wasteland because your main wincon is price of progress. This list also doesn't want daze because daze's main strength is its synergy with mana denial. Between 4 force, 2 spell pierce, and sometimes 2 spell snare I never really miss daze in these kind of lists. Daze is also bad here because you want to have lots of mana open for snapcaster mage.

The tempo shell is the "better" deck because it has good matchups against most of the meta. The issue here is that the only advantage that UR tempo has over RUG or BUG or 4 color delver is that it's cheaper to build. However, if your meta has a lot of BUG (especially shardless BUG), the burn list will absolutely stomp at local tourneys. I think in that regard, UR delver with price of progress is the only list worth running since there's no deck that does quite the same thing, so it actually fits a niche in the meta. Although you're trying to build RUG and you can't afford it yet, UR tempo is worth building since it plays the same.

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You are right, the UR-Tempo shell is definitely the better deck.

whether it is UR, RUG or Grixis or RWU.

So this deck will play 3-4-of Treasure Cruise or what?

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Originally Posted by MGB

So this deck will play 3-4-of Treasure Cruise or what?

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Just play Gitaxian Probe. Zero mana draw 1 vs 2-3 mana draw 3.
This deck gains card advantage with Snapcaster Mage.

BTW - if you aren't testing Monastery Swiftspear in here, you should be. It's often a better Goblin Guide. This isn't a deck I play often but that card has seemed very very good so far.

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Originally Posted by alphastryk

BTW - if you aren't testing Monastery Swiftspear in here, you should be. It's often a better Goblin Guide. This isn't a deck I play often but that card has seemed very very good so far.

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Seems like it wouldn't be as good here as in straight burn because of the presence of counters and either Stifle or Price. Still it's an interesting card. Between this and Treasure Cruise, this deck has some really interesting options going forward. I think I'm going to play with a more burn-focused list and cut Lavamancers and 1-2 Snapcasters for 3-4 Cruise. Debating Young Peezy vs. Guide vs. Eidolon vs. Nivmagus.

Finally a good home for Izzet Charm?! Probably not, but a man can dream.

I've been testing Monastery Swiftspear in a quite heavy burn shell.
Tell me what you think of this list:

3 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
1 Island
10 Fetch

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Treasure Cruise

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast

4 Goblin Guide
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear

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Originally Posted by Finslayer

I've been testing Monastery Swiftspear in a quite heavy burn shell.
Tell me what you think of this list:

3 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
1 Island
10 Fetch

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Treasure Cruise

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast

4 Goblin Guide
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear

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I run a burn-heavy deck as well, but I do it with daze and FoW in it's maindeck, as also thunderous wrath (which may seem a little flat, but works above 80% of the time, having brainstorm on the deck). Until now it's been the best list I've ran until now

Because of the fact that you dont run FoW in the MD (which I personally think that it's a mistake), the decision on now running snapcaster is probably correct. Maybe the fireblast is not a good choise, as you run only 3 volcanic islands and 1 mountain... I'd run not more than 1, since it has to be the finisher. Just an observation, sometimes people run discards and you have to discard it. Because of this I've never ran fireblast in my UR Delver Burn list.

By the way, tell us what YOU have thought about your build. I think it looks promising (I'd only put some FoW in the MD), since as you run 4 probes and no snapcaster you may operate well with only 16 mana.

Also, how do your SB looks like? I guess because it's a 16 land deck it has to be pretty light

By the way, here goes the list I've been running and got top8 in the last 3 tournaments with about 40 people (just a point about it's efficiency):

CREATURES
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
4 Snapcaster

COUNTER
4 Force of Will
3 Daze


CANTRIP
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe

BURN
3 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Thunderous Wrath

LANDS
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta

SIDEBOARD
2 Flusterstorm
2 Submerge
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Searing Blaze
2 Pyroblast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Surgical Extraction

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Originally Posted by ThiefSlayer

I run a burn-heavy deck as well, but I do it with daze and FoW in it's maindeck, as also thunderous wrath (which may seem a little flat, but works above 80% of the time, having brainstorm on the deck). Until now it's been the best list I've ran until now

Because of the fact that you dont run FoW in the MD (which I personally think that it's a mistake), the decision on now running snapcaster is probably correct. Maybe the fireblast is not a good choise, as you run only 3 volcanic islands and 1 mountain... I'd run not more than 1, since it has to be the finisher. Just an observation, sometimes people run discards and you have to discard it. Because of this I've never ran fireblast in my UR Delver Burn list.

By the way, tell us what YOU have thought about your build. I think it looks promising (I'd only put some FoW in the MD), since as you run 4 probes and no snapcaster you may operate well with only 16 mana.

Also, how do your SB looks like? I guess because it's a 16 land deck it has to be pretty light

By the way, here goes the list I've been running and got top8 in the last 3 tournaments with about 40 people (just a point about it's efficiency):

CREATURES
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
4 Snapcaster

COUNTER
4 Force of Will
3 Daze


CANTRIP
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe

BURN
3 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Thunderous Wrath

LANDS
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta

SIDEBOARD
2 Flusterstorm
2 Submerge
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Searing Blaze
2 Pyroblast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Surgical Extraction

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I used to play Pyro version with True-Name Nemesis but when I saw Monastery Swiftblade I wanted to brew with it. First I goldfished with this deck including FoW and Daze but wanted to fully maximize the potential of Monastery Swiftspear so I wanted to be able to play my cards during Main 1. Monastery has been usually quite impressive while goldfishing, with blue I'm usually able to chain spells so over 3 turn I can usually play at least 2 spells a turn. I think I should add go to 4 Volcanic Island. I could see going back to MD Fows but as for now I'm playing this version like "burn with blue" and keep on brewing without FoW md. My sideboard atm:

2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
4 FoW
1 Flusterstorm
2 Submerge
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Searing Blaze

Sorry for my bad english.

I think that if you're not gonna play any counterspell in your deck then you are better off just playing straight burn. Even lists with swiftspear should at least run force of will + daze, then against combo decks side out swiftspear and add more counterspells.

Welcome our new overlords: Swiftspear and Cruise.
Good job Bob!

Incredible performance by Bob!

What the ****, Treasure Cruise is nuts! After i saw the finals, i instantly ordered the 2 missing Cruises for me and the set of Swiftspears. I mean - racing 2 Griselbrand attacks, what the actual...? When I saw Swiftspear for the first time, I though "Hey, that card could be fun", but ... what i saw on camera last night, was just insane. First SCG with KTK being legal in legacy, and I saw a Recall here, Recall there, oh, what about a ridicilously huge Goblin Guide? :eek: Whoever still thinks Cruise has no impact in Legacy - sooooooooo, yeah. :confused:

Where are the Wastelands?

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Originally Posted by Tea

Where are the Wastelands?

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You think he could have done better than winning the Open if he had Wastelands or what's your point?

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Originally Posted by Hopo

You think he could have done better than winning the Open if he had Wastelands or what's your point?

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If he ran Wastelands he would have to take out at least 3 spells for it and also run Stifle.

Obviously you CAN play Wastelands and Stifle at the cost of probably some number of Ponder, Swiftspear, Chain Lightning, Forked Bolt, Daze.

Grea job by Bob. 4 Cruises seem like a bit much... but he never dew multiples on camera.

I will be picking up a set tonight. I look forward to the new set on MTGO.

Haha hi guys. I'll write something up for CFB, but here are some quick replies from my phone. I actually drew 3 cruises vs shardless on camera in round 8. Cruise is just too good. I'm okay with shuffling away extras and pitching them to fow, but I always want one. After the first, the second becomes easier to cast. Stifle/waste are fine but less good when expected and they don't synergize with swiftspear.

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

Haha hi guys. I'll write something up for CFB, but here are some quick replies from my phone. I actually drew 3 cruises vs shardless on camera in round 8. Cruise is just too good. I'm okay with shuffling away extras and pitching them to fow, but I always want one. After the first, the second becomes easier to cast. Stifle/waste are fine but less good when expected and they don't synergize with swiftspear.

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That's obvious, but the question is if Stifle+Wasteland wouldn't feed Treasure Cruise better and if the resulting carddraw and manadenial wouldn't make running Swiftspear alongside Delver and Pyromancer kinda redundant in terms of threat-density?

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

Haha hi guys. I'll write something up for CFB, but here are some quick replies from my phone. I actually drew 3 cruises vs shardless on camera in round 8. Cruise is just too good. I'm okay with shuffling away extras and pitching them to fow, but I always want one. After the first, the second becomes easier to cast. Stifle/waste are fine but less good when expected and they don't synergize with swiftspear.

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Congrats. Great playing. Do you think Swiftspear is just strictly better than Goblin Guide?

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

Haha hi guys. I'll write something up for CFB, but here are some quick replies from my phone. I actually drew 3 cruises vs shardless on camera in round 8. Cruise is just too good. I'm okay with shuffling away extras and pitching them to fow, but I always want one. After the first, the second becomes easier to cast. Stifle/waste are fine but less good when expected and they don't synergize with swiftspear.

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Congrats! I was just wondering on the 1 Forked Bolt and 2 Chain Lightning split, were you expecting a lot of burn.dec? Isn't the opposite configuration even more aggressive for races? Plus, casting Forked Bolt twice is not that stellar if you get to already 2-for-1 D&T, etc. Thanks.