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I like this flavor of red splash the most so far, board into power! Why cut candles when you add X spells? When I ran zenith I was wanting up to 4! Hell you can add a dryad or khani and a Kessig, to make all of your dudes and revokers threats/wins..Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I don't know what mystical voodoo you employ to get enough out of 3 swan songs, lol seems NUTS
I've been enjoying Rock Lee's new list and have been playing it to some success. Green Sun's Zenith was amazing allowing for 7 Primeval Titans which could also be 3 Ramp cards (never liked drawing Dryad Arbor though)
Losing Candelabra sucks but Green Sun's Zenith essentially fills half of Candel's role which allows for casting Primeval Titan with one colored land.
The only thing I would try and change with the list is to try and get a 4th repeal and to fit another red dual land in there but overall felt very solid.
First of all: I'm not going to troll:wink:
Just doing some mind games on Show & Tell, do we really need the card anymore in the deck? GSZ is sooo much better since it's only ONE card you need to draw and there isn't the drawback that your opponent put's something nasty into play. Only plan b (or c) isn't possible, early S&T into Eldrazi. Perhaps cards like Sylvian Scrying could get a chance?
Please feel free to give some feedback :wink:
Show and Tell is important to be able to win against decks such as Painter or Lands. Even without those decks they're still very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
If you're running blue, there's no reason to not run Show and Tell. There is no other Legacy-legal card that does what SnT does at SnT's spot on the curve. Every other card requires either more mana, other cards to enable them, or both. Quite a few decks pretty much auto-lose to SnT > Anything, including pretty much any stripe of Delver. Even if your creature immediately eats a Swords to Plowshares, you either got 6 life and two lands or a double-digit boost to your life total.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
SnT also lends itself to incredibly valuable mind games. Unless a player has a sideboard solution ready to go in his hand, I've never known a player who didn't counter SnT if he had one in his hand. I've had several games where I cast SnT even when I didn't have anything other than a land or a Map to put onto the battlefield, just because I knew my opponent almost certainly had a counter. Your opponent doesn't need to know whether or not you actually have anything super scary to put onto the battlefield: all he needs to know is that if he doesn't counter it, things are about to suck for him.
Won my weekly 100$ event again. Ran fire/ice over sudden shock. Never ice'd anything. Burned many things, never two.
Matchups were Enchantress, Sneaky Show, Reanimator. Then Top 4 of a different Reanimator player, then Enchantress.
My dabblings with fire ice were so legit in midrange matchups. Ice functions similarly to repeal, and Fire is awesome as hell. How many did you run? When I test red I run it straight over bonfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Also, I've found that DRS doesn't hose moments peace as hard as I assumed, the card is good. Still a tutorable EE has been doing more work for me lately..
My latest list :
27 Lands:
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
2 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
8 Creatures:
3 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Thragtusk
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Blightwidow
25 Spells:
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Repeal
3 Expedition Map
3 Show and Tell
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Crop Rotation
3 Green Sun's Zenith
Sideboard:
4 Force of Will
4 Swan Song
2 Obstinate Baloth
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Blue Elemental Blast
This time I went 1-1-3 ;-( But I really liked the list and will keep working on it. Blightwidow was a meta-call against UR-Delver decks and will be exchanged for Oracle of Mul Daya again. GSZ is amazing, and Dryad Arbor and Sylvan Caryatid a nice ramp targets with different cmc.
MUs:
Round 1:
MUD - 0:2
Round 2:
Sliver 2:0
Round 3:
High Tide 1:1
Round 4:
The Gate 0:2
Round 5:
MUD 0:2
ATM, MUD still feels like my worst MU, no idea how to fight and win against it...The Gate was knew to me, never played against it before. Heavy discard + life loss, not a good day for my deck.
MUD is easily the worst matchup in Teir 1 or 2. It is the only MU I have conceded to hope to dodge it. It becomes contained with revoker and needle effects. But IMO it would take Force of Will and 5x Needle/Revoker effects to even start expecting wins out of it, without wicked warping to the MD. I run force and 2-3 Needles, my bet is to mull to those and hope for emrakul early.
Creeping Corrosion and Beast Within could be considerations for you. I don't think Blightwidow is worth a maindeck slot, but that is kind of neat. Past that, more Obstinate Baloth and possibly Thragtusk would be the best way to fight life loss, with Baloth obviously also being stronger against discard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
I'm running Kassari's Mono-green list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=65245) but am looking to make a few changes. I don't have The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, so that's out. My current tentative plan is to add in a second Gaddock Teeg in that slot. I'm also looking to replace Creeping Corrosion as I feel it doesn't do enough, so right now I'm looking at replacing 2-3 slots total. I see anything and everything in my meta, but right now there is a noticeable tilt toward BUG. There are a handful of cards I'm currently considering and I'd love to hear input:
Witchstalker:
+ Immune to almost all removal played in Legacy: combined with Dryad Arbor, it pretty much is.
+ Limits opponent's options: grows as spells get countered, encourages opponents to play Brainstorm and removal on their own turn.
+ Can present a relatively fast clock.
+ Can't be hit by Spell Pierce.
- Vulnerable to sacrifice effects until Dryad Arbor comes out.
- Needs help in order to stand up to Tarmogoyf, but can potentially outgrow it.
- Can still be countered.
Great Sable Stag:
+ Cannot be countered.
+ Immune to Abrupt Decay.
+ Can't be blocked by True-Name Nemesis.
+ Can block Germ tokens all day, giving it some extra game against Blade variants.
- Still vulnerable to a lot of commonly played removal: Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt both work.
- Vulnerable to sacrifice effects until Dryad Arbor comes out.
- Can probably only chump block Tarmogoyf.
Beast Within:
+ Kills. Absolutely. Everything not named Marit Lage. And I guess Mirran Crusader.
+ Including planeswalkers.
+ And Tarmogoyf.
+ Could be creatively used on own permanents to create a chump blocker, either to gain some virtual life or get in front of a creature to get rid of Bridge From Below.
- Gives opponent a 3/3 that can be turned sideways.
- Vulnerable to all forms of countermagic.
- Can't be found with Green Sun's Zenith.
Other than that, I can always put a couple of Obstinate Baloth back in. Any thoughts?
Why not Thrun, the last troll? Is zenith targeteable and is so good vs bug and other matchups
I forgot about Thrun, probably because I'm part moron. In fairness, though, an extra mana is still a big difference. I ended up settling on Beast Within...and playing it felt good. It hit Jace and Magus of the Moon, which is decent enough value. Still deciding whether I want to stick to mono green: Gaddock Teeg is an absolute beast out of the board, but I miss the counterspells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfkid
If that's the case, do you plan to go back to Sudden Shock. Or would Magma Jet be worth testing as you exchange uncounterability for Scry 2. Or are you going to go for Lightning Bolt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
You could always try Guttural Response or Avoid Fate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
Won another weekly 17 man event with this. Basically a blending of the RUG build and the mono green build.
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [R] Taiga
2 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [CS] Dark Depths
1 [GTC] Thespian's Stage
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Forest
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
1 [ZEN] Oracle of Mul Daya
// Spells
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [AVR] Bonfire of the Damned
2 [CS] Into the North
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 [AP] Fire/Ice
SB: 1 [MMA] Glen Elendra Archmage
Why not 4 tops? with bonfire seems good, and only 3 BS? I probably cut one revoker and put in the 4th BSQuote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
And the reason of sphere of resistance over the torn of amethist? is for a especial reason? and what happened with the flusterstorm?^^
Regards and congrats for your tournaments!!
In this version you're playing only 3 blue cards maindeck (brainstorm) and 4 in the side (swan song and glen elendra, you told that you never use Ice): do you think blue is needed at all in this version?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Brainstorms could be replaced by 2 tops (functionally ALMOST the same) and a gsz target like eternal witness (recycle + block), scavenging ooze (grave hate + life gain), spike weaver (triple fog), Farhaven Elf/wood elves (for ramp since obvously you'll be playing more basics) or gaddock teeg (a bit less good because of the white cc).
Swan songs can become red elemental blast and glen elendra the third sphere of resistance, or they could also be 4 chalice of the void.
That said I'm glad to see bonfire: it has served me well and I thik it deserves more love.
--------
General question: do you have some tips for the BUG matchup? Being it the tempo version with delver or the midrange with cascade and liliana it seems that I cannot manage to beat it.
Can someone explains me the matchup?
Thanks.
9 blue cards, Glen Elendra is in there too, and she costs multiple blue. The no Show & Tell plan was experimental and I still don't know if I like it. Into the North is VERY all-in on a plan, something I don't entirely enjoy. I will probably put the SnT back in, as a x2. 2 top was very experimental as well, but served me well with a sample size of 9 games (only one of my matches went to 3 games, where my opponent drew nuts.)Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
I would never drop Revoker down from 4. He hands down won me three of my games as a multiple. Not being too-heavily at cmc 1 allowed me to not scoop to Chalice @ 1, which normally occurs, and GSZ let me play around this normal hoser, ramping me to 3, then 4, then Titan where Tops and Brainstorms would've been dead.
The THEORY of Into the North is they can fix mana if I always go for forest first, which I do in this build anyway, but being unable to get red, requiring a Dark Depths plan (which admittedly won me 4 of my 9 games), and not being able to get utility lands all seems unusually rigid for this deck's normal adaptive theme.
Regarding the lack of blue spells, I have run the deck with only 3 brainstorms maindeck many times in the past to success and I never felt lacking of blue. GSZ + brainstorm is probably the best filter you can imagine. I threw back dryads multiple times and then gsz'd for them on the same turn.
show and tell is a sb card or meta call card
Yes, if your meta is "Relevant, Competitive Legacy Decks"Quote:
Originally Posted by bizdoin