I see what you did there...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
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I see what you did there...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
I've been testing a blue splash for Dack Fayden with quite a bit of success for the last week. Here's the list I'm using:
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
5 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Great Furnace
2 Lotus Petal
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Goblin Welder
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Grindstone
4 Blood Moon
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Dack Fayden
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Manic Vandal
SB: 3 Firebolt
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Koth of the Hammer
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
I basically just smashed together the fast mana/goblin welder package from the white splash with a mono red list because of the obvious synergy with Dack, and I've been finding it very consistent with 6 repeatable sources of library manipulation. Often times, you can see 40 cards throughout a longer game, which matches or dwarfs most decks. Additionally, Dack's -2 is sometimes relevant, ie targeting SDT and grinding it away against Miracles, or being an answer to Umezawa's Jitte that you'd usually need Revoker for. The list definitely seems more geared towards the longer, prison control games, and is slightly less capable of beatdown than some lists, but can play all the different styles of game that most painter decks could - which is important as it is the justification for not going totally U/R Painted Stone and grabbing the Brainstorms, artifact lands, Transmute Artifact and Forces or whatever, which has it's own set of weaknesses that Mono Red and R/W do not necessarily share.
The Island and Volcanic Island split was initially due to budget restraints, but feels good due to wanting to cast Blood Moon and later cast Dack, or vice versa. SB I have no real idea, I took some ideas from Mono Red and the U/R Painter lists, but I'm still messing around with. Llawan seems great in Sneak and Show or 12 Post match ups.
One option the U/R dudes obviously know about would be to cut some card (dunno which, maybe a welder or a top or jaya) MD for a Trinket Mage, and then have Engineered Explosives and Pithing Needle in the board.
Let me know if you have any thoughts on the list. Thanks!
I like this list and I really like the Trinket Mage idea. I have everything for this in paper (except the Dack) and I would like to give this a shot. Once Legacy Masters comes to MTGO, I will price out the rest of what I would need to run this list. I brought this up with the RW version earlier and I think it may be even more important with this list: I would consider running a 3rd petal over the 3rd SSG. With blood moon on, unless you fetch or draw an island early, Dack might be sitting in your hand for a bit. With him being your fastest route to the combo, I wouldn't like to be put in this situation. However, this is coming from me simply looking at this list and not playing it yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by RingoDeathStarr
I actually haven't had Dack stranded in my hand yet with the set up as is, however, despite how promising it has been so far, I've probably played less than 60 matches with it, and could just be running hot on being able to cast him. I've definitely been playing with casting him in mind though, so I'm usually fetching an Island if I have other red sources and/or a Blood Moon, or rarely a Volcanic if there isn't any threat of Wasteland, or if it's too important to have access to both colors early to play around. Realistically, 90% of the time Island has been a better target than Volcanic, though, so it's possible that switching to 3 x Petal and 2 x SSG could be enough to just ditch the Volcanic entirely for a second Island, though there are definitely situations in which you could be punished severely for not having the dual.
So this is the painter list that placed well at SCG somerset
Creatures (8)
4 Painter's Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Koth of the Hammer
Lands (19)
4 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Arid Mesa
2 Buried Ruin
1 Plateau
1 Karakas
Spells (32)
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grindstone
1 Helm of Obedience
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Rest in Peace
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Faithless Looting
2 Pyroclasm
Sideboard
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Rest in Peace
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Wear
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Pyroclasm
1 Wrath of God
If you were to build a painters list to be playable without recruiters how would you tune this list?
Recruiters are to essential to this deck. I mean c'mon its the namesake of the deck!!!!! IMPERIAL painterQuote:
Originally Posted by Moa
Try U/R painter or "painted stone". There is a separate thread for it. It's still a viable competitive deck, but very different from this deck.
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It's a funny brew and obviously did ok on the day. I was hoping the pilot would make an appearance somewhere to discuss it. In their opinion, why did it place? etc. There is a lot to be said about copying an archetype enough to win by misinformation. The tool box win con approach is forty cards short of the format that tactic is better suited to.
The thing I always find disappointing about these types of brews is that they are not some innovative new archetype but rather a smear on an existing one, which is ok if that archetype has stagnated and needs a big shock to break it open again but it is just not as interesting and shortcake is doing ok anyway.
Hope that didn't come across badly, I am all for innovation with context just don't know anything about the context.
From what other's have said, this guy rode Blood Moon pretty much the whole day. I am hesitant to say that the list isn't good, but this deck needs recruiters to run optimally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa
If you are not interested in running recruiters, take a look at a few other decks: Parfait and/or The Mighty Quinn. Both play a controlling game and look to mill the opponent out with the Painter/Stone combo or the Helm/RiP combo. Both decks are white heavy, neither user recruiters, and there are MANY splashes for Parfait with red being the most common for blood moon, I believe.
Blood moon for the bloody win!
And Jack, you have been taking a beating on the vids over the last couple of days... That groan tilt you have going on is almost perfected!
P.S. I have PMed you.
Blood Moon is good yes, but it's not the be all and end all. If it was, I would think Stompy would be in the top spot right now. I think what makes this deck potent is not only does it have Moon, it has other Locks as well to back it up. The ability to win from under a bridge for example is quite potent. Painters strength is that it can play control, then play combo, should the need arise. If you want to be good with your control through, you need a toolbox. That's where I think Recruiter shines.
I have lent this deck out, then tested against it, when someone looks for Painter while I am playing Jund, I smile. Sometimes that one track mind will kill you.
Yeah they are different decks, I've looked at the quinn and parfait decks but the primary reason I'm looking at this deck is that I can build it into a true imperial painter deck. I watched the matches with the deck and the interview with the pilot and it was pretty clear that he blood mooned his way through the tournament. Fundamentally I think there is more similarity between this deck and imperial painter because both are toolbox combo/prison decks that use a tutor engine to find a suite of silver bullets or to assemble the combo.
I'm mostly curious how you guys would alter this list having played a similar list as the list I posted looks pretty janky even given its lack of recruiters, particularly the sideboard.
I would double down on the control. Add in the 4th Enlightened, add in some number of Magus even if you can't tutor for them and then I would think about the Welder/Faithless engine. I think really, that's where I would start now I think about it. If you don't have one engine, use the other. Petal becomes a must then too.
When I get home I think I might see if I can build what I am thinking, post up a more detailed list. If I do though it will be in a new thread, not here. I do not think that it belongs here. Asking for our help though, I think that's the right call. The decks will be closely related only running slightly different paths.
I'll post my thoughts on the non-rec list had changes tomorrow. And don't worry about the beats I've been epic storming back above 100 ( I think my low point?) I'll be back on the grind in no time (pun intended)
-jkitch
If you get around to it feel free to send me a PM link to the new thread as I would like to see what you do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Also Jared Boettcher's grixis painter deck is pretty cool to watch, again not imperial painter but a cool rogue variation.
I think there was more to it then him just riding Blood Moon all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Everyone noticed he doesn't have Recruiters in his list but no one is talking about the other unusual cards he had in his list. Swords to Plowshares Main, Pyroclasm Main, Oblivion Ring Main... with access to even more sweepers and spot removal in the side.
Now I agree that no Recruiters is sub-optimal, but perhaps the real lesson we should be playing main-deck removal spells in the current meta? It's one of the things about the Enlightened Patienter that I miss the most from Imperial Painter. Those MD Lightning Bolts / Firebolt, might be really good in this more "Fair Deck" meta, and honestly that's what I'm trying to find space for in my current build.
I mean you are free to run bolts md in shortcake you'll just need to cut a bridge, a welder, a revoker, and another of those three (if you want 4) to squeeze them in since I think the rest of the shell is stretched far enough as is.
Shortcake is designed to have broad game against every deck in the format game one, hence the hate cards over removal. I dropped removal to the sideboard because I hated having bolts against combo/control decks and revokers solved at least some of that while providing splash hate for most creatures you care about (drs, stoneforge) the others are handled by blasts or bridge(delver, snap, tnn, goyf) Of course confidant and goblin guide decks get much worse. but I think gains against sneak show, tempo decks and unfair decks using revokers outweighs lower creature percentages. Plus 3 welders attacks from such a different angle it makes it hard for most decks to deal with everything game 1.
I'm putting painter back together. That blue splash looks interesting.
I'm going to take that to a tournament Sunday.
Looks really interesting...
Cool, let me know what you think. I'm trying Trinket Mage w/Engineered Explosives and a Meekstone in the board right now. Not sure if I like it more than the list at the top of the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelmerz77
I agree with you here. For the last while I have been leaning towards the mono red more bolt orientated deck. The list would harken back to 2013 Johnathan suaruz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
The times you want bolts are generally to deal with clocks from tempo decks. This is further complicated in short cake due to the increased effectiveness of wasteland. The mono red package usually has an easier time stabilizing to allow for a kill without the need to over extend into a bolt, sword or stifle.
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What do you guys think of this decklist that top 8'd the SCG invitational.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=68869
Its not very traditional from the point of blood moon.