[Deck] Vial Goblins

I won a small (6 saturdays, 5 rounds each) store league with Goblins :)


4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain

4 Aether Vial

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Chainwhirler
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Goblin Piledriver
2 Mogg War Marshal
3 Goblin Chieftain
2 Goblin Warchief
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Volley Master
2 Tarfire
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Trashmaster
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Earwig Squad
1 Siege Gang Commander

Sideboard:

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress
2 Thorn of Ametyst
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Trashmaster
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Leyline of The Void


Really liking the LoTVs ib the sideboard :)

@owerbart

Great job!

What did you play against? What did you like dislike? What did you fear you weren't ready for but did / didn't get punished for?

Thanks Olaf :)
I faced mostly fair MUs, including maverick, stoneblade,merfolk, miracle and grixis control. All of them seemed like really good MUs with the exception of grixis. I wasn't prepared for Death Shadow, but I played it three times. I thought that matchup was even but I felt favored

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Originally Posted by owerbart

Thanks Olaf :)
I faced mostly fair MUs, including maverick, stoneblade,merfolk, miracle and grixis control. All of them seemed like really good MUs with the exception of grixis. I wasn't prepared for Death Shadow, but I played it three times. I thought that matchup was even but I felt favored

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Sweet. Wish my meta's were that fair.

Death's Shadow: Mogg War Marshal almost does that match-up alone in my experiences.

Are we tier1 again boys?

Grixis must still be addressed if you want to stay in the contention for DtB status.

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

Grixis must still be addressed if you want to stay in the contention for DtB status.

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I tried a lot of things. Several standard, and many unorthodox things. Changing the Grixis match-up in a serious and meaningful percent requires a serious mainboard change. At least, that's my current postulate.

For example, 4 Chainwhirler's makes the match just another thing to chug down, but you lose Ports and some to all of your haste enablers.

We could just be playing 4 nullhide ferox and/or wilt leaf liege in sideboard XD seriously, if there was a red creature with the discard etb clause it would probably be good

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard

I tried a lot of things. Several standard, and many unorthodox things. Changing the Grixis match-up in a serious and meaningful percent requires a serious mainboard change. At least, that's my current postulate.

For example, 4 Chainwhirler's makes the match just another thing to chug down, but you lose Ports and some to all of your haste enablers.

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I didn't mean to make it seem as though nothing was being done to address the issue, I simply meant that it must be successful before I would think it is a maintainable goal. I dislike 4 Chainwhirler, but I'm sure it does a pretty fair job at the current task. It's an obvious band-aid to the issue, and only a meta-call. It's unlikely that it would be the best strategy at a large event.

The good run finally came to and end! Went 2-2 on Monday, facing nothing but combo! That brought my total win streak to 11 over the course of three tourneys. I’m very happy with the deck and how it played against my worst matchups.

Tourney report:

12 Mountain
4 Waste
4 Port
4 Cavern

4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Piledriver
3 Warchief
2 Chieftain
1 Chainwhirler
4 Gempalm
2 Trashmaster
1 Tarfire
1 Mogg Fanatic
2 Stingscourger

Sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Blood Moon
2 Pithing Needle
2 Pyrokinesis

R1- Elves
G1 we both mull to 6, then I Control his board with spot removal and take over the game.
G2 I keep 7 while he mulls to 5 and I pick up a fairly easy win.

R2 ANT
G1 Port and Waste and his bad draws allow me to steal the win.

I side out vials and Gempalms and Stingscourger, bring in Chalice, Leyline and Thorn.

G2 I draw Chalice in my 7 but opponent has discard. I put on pressure while Porting. I Lackey into Matron and draw Chieftain to set up lethal next turn. I hold Chieftain in hand so I can still Port on opponents upkeep. He casts Ad Nauseum and draws everything he needs and wins.

G3 I open on Leyline and that plus Port limits his options until I have lethal on board and he has to Ad Nauseum himself to death from 3 life.

R3 Ub OmniShow

G1 he goes off with the Show into Omni line that we cannot answer G1.

I side out Gempalms and some random gobbos for Chalice, Thorn and Needle.

G2 I get the win off of Porting him off blue. I drew a Needle but the only thing I could do with it was keep it in hand in case he Shows a Grizz.

G3 my opponent mulls to 5 but I had a mediocre 7 that couldn’t pressure and I didn’t draw into any sideboard cards. He was able to go off Showing into Omni and casting Emrakul. I’m very glad that my list will be running 3 MD answers to a hard cast Emrakul once Cratermaker comes out this weekend.

Over the past three tourneys Pithing Needle and Blood Moon have not been major players. I think Needle (and probably Thorn) could become Sphere of Resistance and maybe one Moon could be a Damping Sphere. That would give more options against more combo, which feels like all I really needed. I just needed more relevant SB cards.

Thus ended my 11 match win streak! Onto R4...

R4 Elves, again (different player)

G1 I mulled a no lander into a slow six. A mid game Chainwhirler helped slow my opponent ‘s board, but he had enough x/2s to stay in the game and combo off a turn or two later.

I sided out Lackeys and Stingscourger for Chalices and Pyros. Big mistake on my part! I’ll chalk this up to being rusty, but I was thinking Lackey will never connect thru all the Elves he’ll play, so I completely forgot that T1 Lackey is basically spot removal for whatever his T1 play is, and T1 Lackey also turns on T2 Gempalm.

G2 I mulled to five because I kept drawing hands with Gempalm and no one drop. Because I sided out my best one drop. Like a maroon. Learn from my mistakes, kids. A Pyrokinesis kept me in the game, but the mulls really killed my chances and I couldn’t draw into more answers before he combo’d off again. A deserved loss on my part.

Changes I would consider....

Once Cratermaker comes out I will +3 MD Cratermaker, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Chainwhirler, -1 MWM. 2nd Stingscourger will not be needed once we have all these extra answers to Eldrazi. Chainwhirler has too much overlap with Cratermaker ‘s damage ability and Whirler’s cost is prohibitive anyway. We really shouldn’t be playing Whirler at all, lovely though her effect is. And I’m comfortable cutting the third MWM because Cratermaker has effectively the same body and the spot removal will have the same game effect as chumping, to a degree.

SB I will -1 Thorn, -2 Needle, -1 Blood Moon, +3 Sphere of Resistance, +1 Damping Sphere. Three Moon seems like overkill when you only really want it against Lands and Eldrazi. Damping Sphere has a very similar effect against Eldrazi while giving much more reach against SnT and Elves. Needle was never good any time I drew it the past three tourneys, and I would have always preferred it to be Damping Sphere or Sphere of Resistance. Thorn is Great but I don’t see a good reason to give up reach against creature combo decks when Sphere of Resistance is strictly better there... maybe there’s a good argument for a split.

Here’s a question: What is the correct number of sideboard cards against combo? I feel like having 8 against ANT is what I need to have a decent chance (which also happens to be the magic number for this deck, a lá Lackey+Vial, Waste+Port, Matron+Ringleader). So I’d like to have a sideboard that can run about 8 cards against any combo deck. Maybe I’m overthinking it and should just run 4 Sphere of Resistance, 4 Chalice? From what I’ve seen of the meta recently it’s mostly fair decks with the usual gang of idiots in combo (ANT, SnT, Elves). I’m happy with my MD against any fair MU and would gladly worry about oversiding against combo.

Your thoughts and comments, as always, are gratefully appreciated.


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@Secretly.A.Bee

Was just adding what I've done to it. Thought it might be relevant

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@Jrw1985

8 sounds about right. When I think about it I always see 7 and think "I'm sort of soft to X." Though it's at it's best when you have a dedicated card and a non-dedicated card, as it dodges the most amount of fight back.

Going all in on 1 type of interaction worries me that they'll just have a one size fits all answer like Abrade.

It's true though that 4 Chalice, 4 Thorn style cards would come in against pretty much every non-land combo deck, but it's also pretty easy to answer.

Ran out to an impromptu tourney tonight. Kept the MD the same but ran the following side...
3 Chalice
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Blood Moon
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pyrokinesis

R1 lost to Dark Depths, 0-2. I had no Wasteland G1 to stay in it. G2 I sided in 3 Moons, but did not draw any. I did have the Stingscourger, but he had the Crop Rotation into Steppe. I realized afterward that I definitely should have sided in 3 Chalice. Dark Depths runs 20 1-drops. so Chalice @ 1 is a must. My mistake.

R2 I beat Belcher. I got belched G1 but won G2 off T1 Chalice @ 0, T2 Sphere. G3 I got Belched T1 but lucked out and was only hit for 14. Lackey cheated in Trashman who blew up the Belcher and a Chrome Mox and I got the win.

R3 I lost to Sneak N Show. G1 was Show into Omni into Grizz into draw 14 into Emrakul. Even though I lost Port still shined this game. G2 I had Chalice @ 1 T2, but he had 2 Lotus Petals T1 and Showed into Sneak into Emrakul to clear my board. I was able to recover with good land drops though and had him dead on board when he found another fatty.

R4 beat a brew

R5 played Grixis Control, finally. G1 I kept a 7 with no 1 drop but 4 lands and Matron/Ringleader. Hymn punished my slow hand and took out two lands, stranding me with 2 lands in play. G2 I sided in Leylines and landed one in my opening 7. It was great! Shut off Angler and Snapcaster and I was able to comfortably outgrind this game for a win. G3 I did not open a LEyline but did have a strong hand. Unfortunately I ran into super hate, Chill + Engineered Plague. I was able to stay in the game thanks to Vial, and I used Waste + Port to take out his R sources, but I eventually died to Angler beats. I also had 2 dead Leylines in hand at the end of the game, unsurprisingly. So, as I expected, Leyline was great in the opener and lousy everywhere else. Would love to hear how others approach siding this MU. I wonder whether Sphere of Resistance would be a good choice to bring in.

Why sphere of resistance over thorn of amethyst? sphere slows us down too, considering we have a fair share of 3 and 4 drops.

i Only can think of elves as a reason to play sphere over thorn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeoCop 90

Why sphere of resistance over thorn of amethyst? sphere slows us down too, considering we have a fair share of 3 and 4 drops.

i Only can think of elves as a reason to play sphere over thorn.

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Yeah Sphere slows us down, but we have Lackey, Vial and Warchief. Elves and Omniscience deserve hate too. Show n Tell into Omni into Emrakul is pretty rough, and Thorn does less to stop that line than Sphere. Sphere will also have more impact against fringe combo like Aluren. Basically, Sphere has more reach against all combo decks. And we do not have enough sideboard slots to side only the most efficient anti-combo cards for each matchup and still expect with any regularity that we can draw them. So, to reduce overall matchup variance against combo Sphere seems to be a better sideboard option than Thorn.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Yeah Sphere slows us down, but we have Lackey, Vial and Warchief. Elves and Omniscience deserve hate too. Show n Tell into Omni into Emrakul is pretty rough, and Thorn does less to stop that line than Sphere. Sphere will also have more impact against fringe combo like Aluren. Basically, Sphere has more reach against all combo decks. And we do not have enough sideboard slots to side only the most efficient anti-combo cards for each matchup and still expect with any regularity that we can draw them. So, to reduce overall matchup variance against combo Sphere seems to be a better sideboard option than Thorn.

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Not sure I can get behind Sphere>Thorn...you described some very narrow scenarios, if Omniscence is hitting the table the game is usually over unless you can pyroblast it or they are hellbent, and if you are worried about Elves, OmniTell, and Aluren there are other sb options.

Pretty much all combo that we are worried about is spell based and that's why I think Thorn is amazing and one-sided. The creature based combo, I've never had an issue using removal. I think the games where sphere can screw us is a very real possiblity. We're talking about sb games here and actually I feel like our games tend to lean less on lackey than g1 since they usually want removal in their opener, and they are always bringing in artifact hate for vial.

Top 8'd today this tournament (109 players). Big thanks to Kylis and Kake for organizing it!

Fairly happy with the deck and my performance considering I had 3 live rounds under my belt with Goblins plus a few cockatrice matches. I also received some very good help on the goblin discord server, thank you!

List:
// 60 Maindeck
4 Aether Vial
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Trashmaster
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Cratermaker
2 Tarfire

4 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
5 Mountain
1 Plateau
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills


// 15 Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Karakas

Matchups:
R1 Reanimator 2-1 dice roll L
Got lucky and stole G1 with Stingscourger

R2 Grixis Control 2-1 dice roll W
Opponent mulled G3 and had to rely on Toxic Deluge but that doesnt stop goblins!

R3 Moon Stompy 2-1 dice roll W
G2 my opponent managed to ult with the 4cmc Chandra

R4 4C Loam 2-1 dice roll W
G1 I popped off with Sharpshooter wiping his Dark Confidant + Dryad Arbor
G2 He had 2 massive knights + punishing fire & loam engine going, I went through 4 Ringleaders but didnt get much going because I was stuck on mana
G3 Opponent misplayed and prioritized killing Warchief over Lackey

R5 BG Reanimator Depths(?) 0-2 dice roll L
Interesting deck, game was over in 3 minutes.

R6 UR Burn 2-0 dice roll W
I kept Delver's in check and grinded him out. I started to make small mistakes at this point in the tournament and got warning for trying to attack with summoning sick Matron :(

R7 ID to top8

Top8 UB Death's Shadow 1-2
Honestly I havent played against this deck ever before, it seems decently strong. He also had better seeding and got to play first which is massive in this matchup.
G1 he rolls me with godly hand, countering my 2 vials/killing my lackey
G2 Boarded in 3 Thalia's which probably is a mistake, all their creatures are either too beefy or have evasion. The tax effect is nice but I dont think its worth exposing our mana for white splash and they can operate on 2 mana easily.
G3 mulled into 5 card hand, first 2 hands had 0 lands...

Report for Battle for the Duals in Moonbase Market.

I got 9th of course, winning me a Scrubland instead of a playset of Duals.

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@dsck

Great job man! Glad the discord is doing it's job.

On Death's Shadow: The match-up is Mogg War Marshal dependent. They really only win if Delver hits enough times or they get several large ground creatures. Mogg War Marshal shuts off most of their outs.

I would not board in Thalia against anything with a Wasteland. It is exclusively for non-wasteland decks. Honestly you have plenty of a board for it, just the 2 Pyrokinesis come in and Sharp / Tarfire come out.

Also, can I get some more detail on that Grixis Control game? Did he get mana Screwed, did you draw hot and / or he did not?

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I will be updating the primer this week now that I've finished play testing and have a better handle on the meta again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard

Report for Battle for the Duals in Moonbase Market.

I got 9th of course, winning me a Scrubland instead of a playset of Duals.

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@dsck

Great job man! Glad the discord is doing it's job.

On Death's Shadow: The match-up is Mogg War Marshal dependent. They really only win if Delver hits enough times or they get several large ground creatures. Mogg War Marshal shuts off most of their outs.

I would not board in Thalia against anything with a Wasteland. It is exclusively for non-wasteland decks. Honestly you have plenty of a board for it, just the 2 Pyrokinesis come in and Sharp / Tarfire come out.

Also, can I get some more detail on that Grixis Control game? Did he get mana Screwed, did you draw hot and / or he did not?

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I will be updating the primer this week now that I've finished play testing and have a better handle on the meta again.

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My Grixis match:
G1 my opponent mistimed Edict, he let me uptick Vial to 2 and I could respond with Vialing in Mogg War Marshal when he was attempting to kill my Piledriver. Despite him making such a big mistake it was fairly close game because of him Hymning me early and flashing Hymn back to get my remaining cards. I however had enough 1/1's to get the job done and he was super low after that mistake earlier in the game, Piledriver took a huge CHUNK.

G2 I flooded out (only time entire tournament) and he got early Gurmag out which held my Thalia at bay, bounced it with Stingscourger but he had it back soon again. I kept his mana under pressure but didnt really have much going myself :(

G3 He wasnt willing to keep hand with 1 land, brainstorm, 2 fatal push + other good stuff on the draw and went to 6, he had little interaction early game with only Strix and then Deluge as a follow up. At this point I had Vial on 4 and full grip.


About the UB Shadow matchup, I was aware how good Mogg War Marshalls are there but he had multiple Delvers each game and I had no chance in G3 with going down to 5 with no landers :cry: In hindsight I probably did the best I could (except for siding in 3 Thalias against a Wasteland deck but G3 was lost anyway regardless of what card it could have been otherwise).

There was also multiple OmniTell decks in the top tables and 2 in the top8, my sideboad does nothing against Omniscience but luckily I could ID that matchup to top8.

Thanks for the insight.

Also IDing a bad match-up is a pretty good feeling.

I am seriously considering playing legacy again & this is the deck I'm looking at. Goblin Crater Maker looks awesome and DRShaman is banned!