Well, I was way off.
Land Tax got unbanned? I think I just heard the sounds of millions of Legacy players cry out in tear-pouring joy.
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Well, I was way off.
Land Tax got unbanned? I think I just heard the sounds of millions of Legacy players cry out in tear-pouring joy.
But the joy that exists for no reason, unfortunately. We're not fighting Mana Drains anymore, kids.
-Matt
Maybe so, but it's more of a sentiment than competitive joy. Even if the card is terrible, some people like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I just grabbed 3 x korean mox diamonds, korean priests, korean monks, chinese plate, and korean armor. I already had korean firestorms. it's time to tax and battle. if you push me i may go after korean guerrillas.
I think any joy you are hearing is from Wizards finally making the realization that most Legacy players reached ~8 years ago when they look the first look at the Legacy banned list and said "Why the fuck is Land Tax on there?"Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
What was the original stated rationale for banning Land Tax anyway? It was before they announced things on their site so I assume the explanation is buried in some old copy of The Duelist or something.
Slows down the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
Similar reason for banning Top in Extended.
BTW, it's funny to see the old poll at the top of the page. Sensei's Top being the #1 vote getter...
I thought Land Tax was initially banned because it was a card advantage machine(which was tough to justify after Griselbrand), but stayed banned because of the worries of games going over in time.
Any idea where this was stated? I'm trying to figure out exactly what, way back when, Wizards of the Coast stated was the reason (not just why players thought it was banned/wanted it banned). If they even gave one back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plague Sliver
Here is the official explanation from Bill Stark on Top's ban in Extended. An argument against Land Tax is that it slows the game down by having a player shuffle during every upkeep. I don't expect that Land Tax will see anywhere near as much play as Top did in Extended in 2008. It was probably the correct decision to unban Land Tax.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...mtg/daily/ld/2
Extended
For many readers, the biggest surprise to come out of the recent announcement was the decision to ban Sensei’s Divining Top in Extended. Making the decision to remove a card from an environment completely is never something taken lightly, and this time was no exception. Sensei's Divining Top caught the eye of Organized Play as being a potential problem during the Qualifier season for Pro Tour–Hollywood, but ultimately the decision was to monitor Top’s performance through the season and reconvene on the matter later in the year.
Ultimately Top 8s throughout the season were littered with the one-cost artifact either in conjunction with Counterbalance to lock opponents out of games, Trinket Mage to be found reliably, or (and usually in addition to) Onslaught’s sac-lands to allow players to shuffle away cards they didn’t wish to draw while peeking at a fresh set of three cards. Such a pervasive performance during a single season created a different problem as well: it made tournaments take too much time.
The constant activating of Divining Top bogs games down, which ultimately leads to an increase in the number of matches that go to time and beyond, which in turn leads to tournaments running much longer than they have historically. Furthermore, the Top encourages players to maximize the number of shuffle effects they play in a deck and the constant shuffling, cutting, presenting to an opponent to repeat the process, and then continuation of a turn exacerbated the situation. In the past the DCI has banned such cards on those grounds alone (Shahrazad is a good example of this, with Land Tax and Thawing Glaciers also having been banned for similar reasons) but in conjunction with the Top’s popularity during the last Extended PTQ season, the decision was to ban the card from the format it was harming.
OK. We just have to start up a new multi year campaign to free the jelly fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Let me pick up a set, then I'd be down.
It was also banned (Land Tax, I mean) when the formats split from 1.5 to Legacy. I was very sad that Friday. Who was more upset? The gent who JUST bought a set of Drains. He still won't play Legacy on principle that Wizards fucked him :tongue:
-Matt
Omniscience 7UUU
Enchantment (Mythic Rare)
You may cast nonland cards from your hand without paying their mana costs.
Can we please ban Show and Tell now?
Man laziest design possible really
Does this mean we have to wait for the next B/R update and gotta play at 2 GPs with this shit? Not sure if it is broken or anything, as it requires Show and Tell, Omniscience and Emrakul, wouldnt work with Grisel as good as with SneakAttack..but still I think there are possibilities to break this -even though you can never ever hardcast it...when I think over it...seems pretty weak doesn't it? While having Show and Tell as the only outlet it more like a 3+ card-combo...Quote:
Originally Posted by majikal
Greetings
That's not Blightsteel Colossus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
Edit: Moved to the M13 Spoiler thread.
Too bad you sold your show&tells huh phil?
The DCI says Show and Tell is fine so it must be.Quote:
Originally Posted by majikal
But on a more serious note, I fail to see why Tinker is banned while Show and Tell remains legal. What does Tinker put into play that is more devastating than the things that you can put into play via Show and Tell?
Tinker tutors for the card Show&Tell requires you to already have the card in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
This doesn't really answer my question:Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
If one resolves which one is more likely to win you the game?
That wasn't your question. Ask yourself this question: which spell is better resolved, the one the gets me the specific win-con in context of game-state or the one that lets me play whatever I have in hand..Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
Also... good luck playing S&T puting griselbrand in play and your opponenet putting emrakul...Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
Because they are so many awesome silver bullet artifacts out there compared to just Show and Telling in a card and winning on the spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
Also, tinker is one sided, your opponent doesn't get to put anything into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
In my view, there's no way to justify the ban of Tinker as long as Show and Tell is legal. Seriously, what can be tutored in by Tinker which is even worse than our notorious Show and Tell targets? Neither Blightsteel nor Darksteel Collossus end the game as quickly as Griselbrand and to a lesser extent Emrakul do, while both are vulnerable to Swords which is still the most common removal. Also, sacrificing an artifact is a deal.
Speculation: They printed that new shitcard to promote the excessive prevalence of Show and Tell decks in the upcoming months so they have better opportunities to justify the ban in September...
Blightsteel kills in one hit and tinker is easily castable on turn one. Its a one card combo where at least show and tell is a two card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa
It's a one card combo except that it requires two cards to cast.
That said, dedicated Tinker decks would probably revolve around hardlocks and combos rather than Collossii (unlike Vintage not being compact is less of an issue when you can run the enabler as a 4x).
It's quite ironic that you say so, when Tinker requires two cards as well, and has to actually cast the two in order to win. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondancerbb
Because there aren't any 0 costing artifacts? Or artifacts that produce mana? Come on now, sometimes you people are so trite.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJones
Also, learn what irony means.
How's Tinker+Artifact into Blightsteel colossus better than Entomb+Reanimate into Griselbrand? Also Swords to Plowshares is a card as well as Terminus and Daze and Steel Sabotage...
Edit: Forgot the indestructibility and later edited the list of cards which really answer the big robot.
Tinker being a tutor shouldn't be a reson to ban the card imo because we already have tutors in the format with their own restrictions. Merchant Scroll, Infernal Tutor in stack based decks are as much tutors as Tinker is in a permenant based deck.
Edit2: Oh, also the Grim Tutor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
I'd be more than happy to see the card unbanned. I don't know if it's any better or worse, there is only speculation.
The fact that neither Show and Tell nor Tinker is more broken than the other says one of two things: Tinker should be unbanned or Show and Tell should be banned. It is overly apparent that something is wrong with Legacy's B & R list.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
Also, Land Tax should have been unbanned two years, and Mind Twist should have been unbanned one year ago.
I think there is a pretty big difference between being able to put a card from you hand into play and putting a card from your deck into play.
What? How does Show and Tell even come close to Tinker? You guys are so mental sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
With Show and Tell you need to run 7-8 S&T targets that you will never hardcast. With Tinker you need to run maybe one or two.
Show and Tell lets the opponent put something into play as well. Sometimes that card is going to blow you out, Tinker is one sided.
Running artifacts is not a disadvantage. All artifacts are going to do something good on their own anyways, not just be a useless card to activate Tinker.
Show and Tell is a combo you have to build the entire deck around. Tinker decks are going to have a plan B that involves winning without casting Tinker.
I could go on but why bother? If you guys can't figure out why Tinker is still banned there is no hope for you.
I won't argue against that. It is possible that Tinker the more powerful card at one point in time which is why it is on the B&R list. As to the reason it is still banned I can only speculate that maybe WotC is being cautious because of the anti "blue" sentiment among some players. As to when certain cards should have been unbanned thats just conjecture and arbitrary. There are a few cards that could come of the list and probably will eventually. I think the list should be as small as possible and if people don't like "blue" dominance then they can play casual, there is no reason a competitive enviroment has to be "fair". If I think it's unfair that I cannot be a professional football player making millions of dollars even though I lack the skill and genetics do you think the NFL should enforce rules and regulations so that I can achieve my "dream"? I'm tired of all these entitled cry**** running around dictating how things should be, it is nothing but selfish and self serving.Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
Also, this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes
Don't get me started on the NFL's regulations. I'm a Saints fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
This. Also it being any card in your library as opposed to what you have in hand is a world of difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by millerd33
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
:smile:, You guys had that one season...
anyone who's comparing tinker to show&tell in term of power raw probably never ran tinker once
Even if S&T maybe needs to be fixed at some point due to recent releases, tinker is a uber-unfair card compared to S&T. Test it.