[Primer] Nic Fit

If your meta is so low on fair decks that you only want to run 2 spotremoval you should really consider playing another deck entirely. Junk Fit doesn't deal with unfair decks especially well and by running so little spotremoval you've also kinda ruined your Delver/fair MUs.

Tracker is great, it's become a mainstay for a lot of lists nowadays. It's run in everything, from Junk to Jund to BUG.

On the other stuff... Look man, if you want to keep Magical Chistmas Land-ing that's fine. Just don't expect much response from the community.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

If your meta is so low on fair decks that you only want to run 2 spotremoval you should really consider playing another deck entirely. Junk Fit doesn't deal with unfair decks especially well and by running so little spotremoval you've also kinda ruined your Delver/fair MUs.

Tracker is great, it's become a mainstay for a lot of lists nowadays. It's run in everything, from Junk to Jund to BUG.

On the other stuff... Look man, if you want to keep Magical Chistmas Land-ing that's fine. Just don't expect much response from the community.

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The crazy nastyass honey badger, indeed :)

As i mentioned... it's not fo tournament purpouses. I play elves. This is for fun with friends.
2x removal is low, ok try to shift it little bit for 4.
Junk is much better then Jund against combo. BUG is better ofc, but i just dont like blue.
Magical landing works fine for now, if i have problems with lands, i will keep in mind your advice, thank you.

I've settled on a list for now, still working on getting Trackers (shop didn't have them, nobody had them for trade at a recent 70 mana event.) I was able to trade into a Sigarda though, so it wasn't a total loss. Will adjust accordingly when Tracker is obtained. My replacement for now is Doran, which is janky, but I don't see anything else really at the 3 mana slot I would want. A 2nd Witness seems *ok*, and I don't want to go Knight of the Reliquary because it creates a complete change in approach (might as well do Maverick.) Ramanup Excavator just doesn't do enough, unless it's against Lands, and nobody at the local is on Lands. Suggestions welcome for that slot. I'm also flexible on the 1x Thoughtseize maindeck; it's a concession to the random nature of the LGS, where an odd Thoughtseize sometimes helps you win against Enchantress or Bomberman. However, people with more experience with the deck could easily sway me to do something different (note: I do not own Mirri's Guile, and I have been unsuccessful in obtaining them so far.)

4x Veteran Explorer
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Siege Rhino
1x Doran, the Siege Tower
1x Eternal Witness
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Courser of Kruphix

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Cabal Therapy
1x Thoughtseize
3x Path to Exile
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Vindicate
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Sylvan Library

4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Savannah
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
3x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Rogue's Passage

Sideboard
3x Duress
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Lost Legacy
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Golgari Charm
1x Toxic Deluge
2x Pithing Needle
1x Bitterblossom (could become Choke, Deluge #2, GCharm #2, LLegacy #3)


Very solid so far, with really fun games. Rogues Passage is a little iffy, might just want another Forest. Urborg has been useful. I'm a little iffy on only playing 20 lands anyways...might drop to 2 Deathrites for land 21.

You could also cut either the Thoughtseize or the Vindicate to accomodate for another land. Another option would be to add the land as your 61st card.

I've done 61 in the past, and in a toolbox deck like this it could work. But I don't, generally, like the idea of 61 cards. I would likely drop the Thoughtsieze for the land, probably a Forest.

While I have your attention...how does Dryad Arbor work out for you? I remember from the primer that GSZ for 1 is almost always better than GSZ for Arbor t1. I have found that I have definitely wanted to save it for GSZ = 1, and my most frequent target is Explorer. It waits a turn but it gives an explosion of mana that is just the nuts. The primer also talks about Deed killing Arbor, which is relevant. The best thing I've done so far is Therapy t1, then turned a fetchland into an Arbor so I can flash it back t2 and also play a Deathrite. It's good, but it if the DRS dies I'm not getting ahead in mana like I want to. In a nutshell, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to play with Dryad Arbor.

Just some thoughts, might drop the Arbor and I wanted some experienced advice.

Arbor is mostly valuable vs. fast combo decks. On the play it enables you to cast T2 Lost Legacy before your opponent is likely to kill you, which can either buy you a lot of time or just outright win the game if your opponent has been sloppy with his/her win conditions. On the draw though don't ever GSZ for it on any T1 when you could be casting discard instead.

In other MUs it's mostly a delicate precision tool. You use it to coax your opponent into wasting spotremoval or a Wasteland on it, to (surprise) fog an incoming creature (either just once or permanently, in conjunction w/ Meren of Clan Nel Toth), surprise counter check in the late game by flashing back a Therapy before casting a crucial threat (or answer) or from time to time even to turn a fetchland into exactly lethal damage (although that case is obviously very rare, but I have pulled it off a non-zero number of times). It won't ever have a huge impact on the game, but very often it does make a difference. I hope that kinda makes sense.

Yes, it sometimes dies to Deed, but that's what the deck does. You have to be willing to sever a limb to save the whole and usually blowing up Deed hurts your opponent more than it hurts you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Arbor is mostly valuable vs. fast combo decks. On the play it enables you to cast T2 Lost Legacy before your opponent is likely to kill you, which can either buy you a lot of time or just outright win the game if your opponent has been sloppy with his/her win conditions. On the draw though don't ever GSZ for it on any T1 when you could be casting discard instead.

In other MUs it's mostly a delicate precision tool. You use it to coax your opponent into wasting spotremoval or a Wasteland on it, to (surprise) fog an incoming creature (either just once or permanently, in conjunction w/ Meren of Clan Nel Toth), surprise counter check in the late game by flashing back a Therapy before casting a crucial threat (or answer) or from time to time even to turn a fetchland into exactly lethal damage (although that case is obviously very rare, but I have pulled it off a non-zero number of times). It won't ever have a huge impact on the game, but very often it does make a difference. I hope that kinda makes sense.

Yes, it sometimes dies to Deed, but that's what the deck does. You have to be willing to sever a limb to save the whole and usually blowing up Deed hurts your opponent more than it hurts you.

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Great points, thank you. I would have gotten there eventually, but this is a clear case where I *knew* the community could help me get there quicker.

Happy to help!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I've settled on a list for now, still working on getting Trackers (shop didn't have them, nobody had them for trade at a recent 70 mana event.) I was able to trade into a Sigarda though, so it wasn't a total loss. Will adjust accordingly when Tracker is obtained. My replacement for now is Doran, which is janky, but I don't see anything else really at the 3 mana slot I would want. A 2nd Witness seems *ok*, and I don't want to go Knight of the Reliquary because it creates a complete change in approach (might as well do Maverick.) Ramanup Excavator just doesn't do enough, unless it's against Lands, and nobody at the local is on Lands. Suggestions welcome for that slot.

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Hi Mr. Safety,
i would rather play
Anafenza, the Foremost
Kitchen Finks
Steel Leaf Champion (but GGG could be a problem to hardcast :( )
GL :)

Thanks for the suggestions. Anafenza has some decent anti-reanimator synergy, but it's waaaaay too slow. Kitchen Finks is another grindy card, but I don't think it adds anything to the deck that Doran doesn't do better (hosing True Name, blocking just about anything ground-based, making my Courser/Meren/Rhino's better.) Steel Leaf Champion is a definite no, as you say the mana cost is way too prohibitive. Doran also hits for 5 and has a better effect on the board.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Thanks for the suggestions. Anafenza has some decent anti-reanimator synergy, but it's waaaaay too slow. Kitchen Finks is another grindy card, but I don't think it adds anything to the deck that Doran doesn't do better (hosing True Name, blocking just about anything ground-based, making my Courser/Meren/Rhino's better.) Steel Leaf Champion is a definite no, as you say the mana cost is way too prohibitive. Doran also hits for 5 and has a better effect on the board.

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https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-s...full/creatures
Hmm its better then i thought.
Good against:
Delver, Nemesis, thalia, Pyromancer...
And u r right, i didnt noticed, that u r running 4 rhinos :) even DtS gets little boost. You have to tell us how u were happy with this card.
Steel Leaf Champion - its more or less that he cant be chumpblocked. But GGG in 3color is just... no way :(

It's just a place-holder anyways, I definitely think even 1 Tracker would be better (most lists use 2.)

Hey guys,

after some time playing Aluren I got back to my roots - to Nic Fit. I suited up a RhinoFit like this:


4 Veteran Explorer
3 Siege Rhino
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thragtusk
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Sylvan Library
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Toxic Deluge

2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ashen Rider
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Golgari Charm
1 To the Slaughter
2 Lost Legacy
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize


I played few games and it looks super fine, especially against fair decks. It has an answer almost to everything, it grinds well and wins eventually. The problem, of course, is combo - Sneak and Show, Storm, Turbo Depths. I have some troubles fighting them, I felt I can beat them but in the end their top deck was always better :-( I guess I must get used to it. Btw, Sylvan Library was awsome and super well functioning. Maybe Mirri's Guile can be handy.

Guiles are awesome.

The only real standout card in your list is Thrun. Nowadays it's pretty much obsolete.

Did anyone tried recently to spice things up with the inclusion of new cards:
1. Mastermind acquisition as a tutor?
2. Yawgmoth Vile offering in a legendary build?
3. New Multani as a finisher 6 drop?
4. Angrath in a GBR build?

How good is To the Slaughter? I know it's an edict effect that also hits Jace, but is that needed when you can just smash Jace with Siege Rhinos and Deed the board away? Just curious, I have a couple copies of To the Slaughter but I never considered using it in Nic Fit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

How good is To the Slaughter? I know it's an edict effect that also hits Jace, but is that needed when you can just smash Jace with Siege Rhinos and Deed the board away? Just curious, I have a couple copies of To the Slaughter but I never considered using it in Nic Fit.

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It kills TNN and Emrakul, Planeswalkers if you manage your board properly and if you are lucky enough you can go 2 for 1. I use one copy of it depends of the metagame. If you expect a lot of Miracles / Jund / Czech Pile I will stick a copy in. In another case Diabolic Edict might be better and cheaper.

I'm not worried about the 1 mana difference, this is a mana-ramp deck after all. Just wondering if it is really necessary. Going to a tournament on 6/6, likely bringing Rhino Fit, so I'd like to know if I should include it in my sideboard. I expect a fairly stock mix of tier 1-2 decks: Grixis Delver, Czech Pile, Death and Taxes, Lands, Elves, TES, ANT, Dragon Stompy, Eldrazi,, Miracles, BR Reanimator, and Show and Tell. I always see the fringes as well, with Burn, Enchantress, 12Post, Manaless Dredge, and Pox. As a whole the metagame is mostly fair with the combo decks of choice being S&T, Reanimator, and Elves. I think this could be a good place to play Nic Fit. At the last 1k I got 16th with Junk Stoneblade, going 4-2. My losses were to Burn and Maverick. I think Nic Fit is a better 'big' deck than Maverick and the Burn matchup isn't as problematic with 4x Rhino and Courser.

How important are Phyrexian Tower/Volrath's Stronghold? I haven't been able to find them, but I'll try harder if they are definitely necessary. Right now my lands are streamlined for mana consistency rather than utility, no frills, no thrills.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I'm not worried about the 1 mana difference, this is a mana-ramp deck after all. Just wondering if it is really necessary. Going to a tournament on 6/6, likely bringing Rhino Fit, so I'd like to know if I should include it in my sideboard. I expect a fairly stock mix of tier 1-2 decks: Grixis Delver, Czech Pile, Death and Taxes, Lands, Elves, TES, ANT, Dragon Stompy, Eldrazi,, Miracles, BR Reanimator, and Show and Tell. I always see the fringes as well, with Burn, Enchantress, 12Post, Manaless Dredge, and Pox. As a whole the metagame is mostly fair with the combo decks of choice being S&T, Reanimator, and Elves. I think this could be a good place to play Nic Fit. At the last 1k I got 16th with Junk Stoneblade, going 4-2. My losses were to Burn and Maverick. I think Nic Fit is a better 'big' deck than Maverick and the Burn matchup isn't as problematic with 4x Rhino and Courser.

How important are Phyrexian Tower/Volrath's Stronghold? I haven't been able to find them, but I'll try harder if they are definitely necessary. Right now my lands are streamlined for mana consistency rather than utility, no frills, no thrills.

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I've always been a huge fan of 1 To the Slaughter in my Rhino Fit list. Delirium is easy enough to hit that the card is almost always worth a consideration. From the obvious use of edict effects and tagging a jace, to post board D&T where they likely board in Gideon, or red prison with an out of control chandra under a bridge.

I enjoy the two towers, but you don't need them. DRS has made stronghold significantly worse over the years, that being said, since colors are so easily fixed in nic fit I usually run it if I have a flex spot. Phyrexian tower is a bit better imo, but only because it can speed up the deck deploying 5 mana on T2, the problem is both are useful in fair match-ups which we are already good against (or most builds are good against), our harder matches have historically been against combo which neither land does much for and can hurt openers by not providing colored mana for disruption (not often but can happen).

In building up a complete book of nic fit cards, at some point you will want the lands, but they are not keeping the deck from being playable. One land not to overlook in Junk builds in Horizon Canopy. I've fallen all types of in love with that card to the point where a flex slot in non-junk decks probably means I will still sleeve it up as a 1 of.

_______________________
Deck of the week:
The brew I'm working on was mentioned in the tertiary variants part of the primer, GB Storm,


//Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Ob Nixilis, the fallen
1 Dryad Arbor

//Inst. & Sorc.
4 Cabal Therapy
2 abrupt decay
2 Collective Brutality
2 Innocent Blood
2 Masterminds Aquisition
2 Scapeshift
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Intent

//Other
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Pithing Needle
2 Nissa, Vital Force

//Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bayou
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Horizon Canopy

//SB
1 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
1 Damnation
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Noxious Revival
1 Rite's of Consumption
2 Choke
1 Pithing Needle
2 Diabolic Edict
1 To the Slaughter
3 Dampening Sphere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I'm not worried about the 1 mana difference, this is a mana-ramp deck after all. Just wondering if it is really necessary. Going to a tournament on 6/6, likely bringing Rhino Fit, so I'd like to know if I should include it in my sideboard. I expect a fairly stock mix of tier 1-2 decks: Grixis Delver, Czech Pile, Death and Taxes, Lands, Elves, TES, ANT, Dragon Stompy, Eldrazi,, Miracles, BR Reanimator, and Show and Tell. I always see the fringes as well, with Burn, Enchantress, 12Post, Manaless Dredge, and Pox. As a whole the metagame is mostly fair with the combo decks of choice being S&T, Reanimator, and Elves. I think this could be a good place to play Nic Fit. At the last 1k I got 16th with Junk Stoneblade, going 4-2. My losses were to Burn and Maverick. I think Nic Fit is a better 'big' deck than Maverick and the Burn matchup isn't as problematic with 4x Rhino and Courser.

How important are Phyrexian Tower/Volrath's Stronghold? I haven't been able to find them, but I'll try harder if they are definitely necessary. Right now my lands are streamlined for mana consistency rather than utility, no frills, no thrills.

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I will agree with Kobra, Stronghold is not necessary. I thing it should be played in specific builds.
Tower let you go T2 Thragtusk/Sigarda or extent your board. It is a non counterable sac outlet. It is useful if you do not draw your therapies having an Explorer on board and facing flying delvers, which you will. Some people play diabolic intent as a 6th sac outlet and tutor.

If you really want to play a card that work like stronghold i will play in the main Eternal Witness and in the board Pulse of Murasa.

I don't think I need more than 1x Witness in the main for graveyard synergy. I fooled around with Profane Command, but it's way too mana intensive. On the flip side, it offers something powerful to do in the late game and provides another form of reach, just like Rhino. However, Rhino does that better and I'm already playing 8 functional copies of it.

Has anybody fooled around with Liliana, the Last Hope? I traded into one and it seems very good against some decks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I don't think I need more than 1x Witness in the main for graveyard synergy. I fooled around with Profane Command, but it's way too mana intensive. On the flip side, it offers something powerful to do in the late game and provides another form of reach, just like Rhino. However, Rhino does that better and I'm already playing 8 functional copies of it.

Has anybody fooled around with Liliana, the Last Hope? I traded into one and it seems very good against some decks.

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Yep, me.

2 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sylvan Library
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise (or Noble, but likely BOP)
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
3 Siege Rhino
1 Shalai
1 Mystic Enforcer (tryin' him out)
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Phyrexian Tower
7 Fetchlands

61

2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
2 Blood Moon
+2 can't remember right now

I'd LOVE to still run Spiritmonger, but we'll see.

I'm trying my best to get around Angler, which seems to be the biggest issue with the Rhino builds. Shalai and Qasali both pump if you need to (and so would Noble, but I want BOP to cast Blood Moon regularly. I don't want to be hamstrung on DRS wars to moon someone out) to be bigger. Liliana helps shrink to make combat math annoying to them, or to nuke their Strixes/YP/etc. and will recur your creatures, or just ping stuff until ultimate. Tusk trades and leaves a token, and shaves a previous attack.

Mystic Enforcer dies to Bolt and STP (what doesn't), but is always immune to K Command, Push, and will always swing past Leovold, Strix, DRS, Angler, etc. for at least 3, or blocks Angler all day. Flying means it'll go over TNN. 4 mana is a lot for most decks, but not so much for ours. Let's see. Spiritmonger, in contrast, is a house all the time, but we'll see. Played him yesterday in some testing and assuming he doesn't get countered, he is a menace (save for TNN).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

How good is To the Slaughter? I know it's an edict effect that also hits Jace, but is that needed when you can just smash Jace with Siege Rhinos and Deed the board away? Just curious, I have a couple copies of To the Slaughter but I never considered using it in Nic Fit.

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Deed board away? Deed is from time where planeswalkers doesn't exist, so it can't kill Jace if i understood you well.
I can't see playing myself To The Slaughter over Vindicate (at least in Junk). The chance that u kill Planeswalker + Creature is very low and Vindicate can help u in Lands/Depths matchups, or kill some pesky artifact/enchantment. Vindicate is much more versatile then To the slaugter in my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nargoron

Deed board away? Deed is from time where planeswalkers doesn't exist, so it can't kill Jace if i understood you well.
I can't see playing myself To The Slaughter over Vindicate (at least in Junk). The chance that u kill Planeswalker + Creature is very low and Vindicate can help u in Lands/Depths matchups, or kill some pesky artifact/enchantment. Vindicate is much more versatile then To the slaugter in my opinion.

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I like Vindicate a lot, and I'm not even playing a copy since Sigarda is usually my go-to walker killer.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

I like Vindicate a lot, and I'm not even playing a copy since Sigarda is usually my go-to walker killer.

-Matt

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Also, Mystic Enforcer could also be Chameleon Colossus. Doesn't die to Bolt, Push, Decay, and blocks/swings past all the black dudes.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

I like Vindicate a lot, and I'm not even playing a copy since Sigarda is usually my go-to walker killer.

-Matt

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yea but the terminus.... the cursed TERMINUS!!! :) Thats the problem, with Jace on board, miracles just dig so deep, that they dig something everytime. On the other hand... they can dig for Force, counterspell or SNapcaster and flashback counterspell...
But again, you can aim lands...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nargoron

Deed board away? Deed is from time where planeswalkers doesn't exist, so it can't kill Jace if i understood you well.
I can't see playing myself To The Slaughter over Vindicate (at least in Junk). The chance that u kill Planeswalker + Creature is very low and Vindicate can help u in Lands/Depths matchups, or kill some pesky artifact/enchantment. Vindicate is much more versatile then To the slaugter in my opinion.

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I feel you may be misunderstanding me. I meant I would kill Jace by attacking him and I don't need to have the removal for creatures like tnn because I have deed. To the slaughter does a couple of good things but nic fit already does those things well. I figure a maindeck vindicate (which I play) and sideboard needles/duress deal with jace. My tnn tech is Doran (which tangles well with angler and lets rhino even up against it too.)

Still, I'll probably put 1x to the slaughter in my board.

Edit: I'm really debating swords to plowshares over path, even with rhinos. If I don't have an explorer opening but I need to kill something, path still gets them lands. I feel like the life from swords would be a less dangerous tradeoff, in most cases.

Edit#2: the possibility of a deathrite shaman ban is getting stronger with a big saturation at gp birmingham. I feel this deck survives just fine without it, I would slot in 1x birds of paradise, 2 more cards, and move on with life. Thoughts?

@Mr. Safety On my phone atm, I'll get back to you tomorrow

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Edit#2: the possibility of a deathrite shaman ban is getting stronger with a big saturation at gp birmingham. I feel this deck survives just fine without it, I would slot in 1x birds of paradise, 2 more cards, and move on with life. Thoughts?

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A DRS ban severely weakens our best matchups, while helping some of our worst. It would not help the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brael

A DRS ban severely weakens our best matchups, while helping some of our worst. It would not help the deck.

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Please expound. I assumed Drs was simply mana ramp 5-7 and occasional maindeck grave hate for reanimator/snaps/storm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Please expound. I assumed Drs was simply mana ramp 5-7 and occasional maindeck grave hate for reanimator/snaps/storm.

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You miss the whole message. He says he can beat the DRS decks and that the DRS decks keeps harder decks in check.
A banning dont effect the deck directly but makes the environment tougher.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackaBo

You miss the whole message. He says he can beat the DRS decks and that the DRS decks keeps harder decks in check.
A banning dont effect the deck directly but makes the environment tougher.

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Gotcha. I did miss that, lol. I thought he was referencing the impact of a no-drs nic fit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Please expound. I assumed Drs was simply mana ramp 5-7 and occasional maindeck grave hate for reanimator/snaps/storm.

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It was already explained but I was referring to the meta shifts it would cause. DRS helps to keep down the decks that we traditionally have bad matchups against, while we're also well positioned against the DRS decks. A DRS ban would likely just result in us playing more Sakura Tribe Elders, Birds of Paradise, or Noble Hierarchs but the rest of the meta would shift radically.

Marc 'Bahra' Konig with Junk NicFit:

"Just won the Legacy challenge with Junk Nic Fit. Deck felt great, especially powerful vs the stompy decks. List needs -1 Primeval Titan +1 Knight of the Reliquary though. I'll stream the deck tomorrow."

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Karakas

3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Lingering Souls
4 Green Sun's Zenith [EDIT Sorry missed GSZ when I originally posted the list]

4 Veteran Explorer
4 DRS
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania
1 Sigarda
1 Primeval Titan
1 Dragonlord Dromoka

3 Pernicious Deed

1 Garruk Relentless

SB

3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Choke
1 Reclamation Sage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Edit: I'm really debating swords to plowshares over path, even with rhinos. If I don't have an explorer opening but I need to kill something, path still gets them lands. I feel like the life from swords would be a less dangerous tradeoff, in most cases.

Edit#2: the possibility of a deathrite shaman ban is getting stronger with a big saturation at gp birmingham. I feel this deck survives just fine without it, I would slot in 1x birds of paradise, 2 more cards, and move on with life. Thoughts?

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Most decks don't run basics, those that do are hardly capable of using the extra mana. Besides, you also plan to pop Veteran Explorers - other decks don't run that many basics and we benefit from it more than those that do (since we're built to do so). The only exception might be Elves! but Swords isn't going to save that particular MU.

On DRS - we don't just run it for ramp, it fullfills more roles than just that. Losing it will hurt us more than you think (and that's not even taking into account what Brael described).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

Marc 'Bahra' Konig with Junk NicFit:

"Just won the Legacy challenge with Junk Nic Fit. Deck felt great, especially powerful vs the stompy decks. List needs -1 Primeval Titan +1 Knight of the Reliquary though. I'll stream the deck tomorrow."

...List...

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That is one greedy (and seemingly antiquated) list. But hey, if it ain't broke... Am curious about the MUs he faced though.

Out of curiosity, what's greedy about it? 22 lands doesn't seem that few, 4 DRS and a good number of removal spells, lingering souls as a 'cheaper' low-impact-value-card

This numboer of 4+ drops kind of looks greedy:

Quote:

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1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania
1 Sigarda
1 Primeval Titan
1 Dragonlord Dromoka

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But he does say he would cut the Titan for a Knight and don't other Junk lists often play multiple Rhino?

Not trying to argue, just wondering what the logic is here

Nic Fit can get away with quite a few 4-drops, it's the amount of 5- and 6-drops that's greedy. He only runs 21 lands by the way, Ghost Quarter is a spell and not a land :wink:.

Cutting the Titan seems like the right thing to do. In this particular build that's the card that gives you the least bang for your relative buck. I'm not sure if he'd be better off playing Dromoka or Carnage Tyrant though so he doesn't have a top-end that folds to Karakas/StP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Nic Fit can get away with quite a few 4-drops, it's the amount of 5- and 6-drops that's greedy. He only runs 21 lands by the way, Ghost Quarter is a spell and not a land :wink:.

Cutting the Titan seems like the right thing to do. In this particular build that's the card that gives you the least bang for your relative buck. I'm not sure if he'd be better off playing Dromoka or Carnage Tyrant though so he doesn't have a top-end that folds to Karakas/StP.

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To be fair (and for playing Titania and Ishkanah), your opponent usually doesn't want to use Karakas on those.

19 creatures (12 requires an answer) +2 Lingering should be enough to outgrind any list with 7 STP.

Back to the old days...This list is very fair but I guess with all these stompy around, he made the perfect choice.

Could we have a breakdown of his MUs (just for the sake of it)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

Marc 'Bahra' Konig with Junk NicFit:

"Just won the Legacy challenge with Junk Nic Fit. Deck felt great, especially powerful vs the stompy decks. List needs -1 Primeval Titan +1 Knight of the Reliquary though. I'll stream the deck tomorrow."

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Karakas

3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Lingering Souls
4 Green Sun's Zenith [EDIT Sorry missed GSZ when I originally posted the list]

4 Veteran Explorer
4 DRS
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania
1 Sigarda
1 Primeval Titan
1 Dragonlord Dromoka

3 Pernicious Deed

1 Garruk Relentless

SB

3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Choke
1 Reclamation Sage

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Wiiiiii finally some lingering souls :)

And iam interested in KoTR. I used to play 1xKotR in junk nicfit, but it was ... just meh. BUT these days with Turbo depths/lands ... it could be a solid pick. And obvious combo with Tireless Tracker/Titania.
U run 8x mana acceleration. Isn't it too much? I mean, its not a card u want to draw in late game.

BTW: general discusion: Are u prefer Pithing Needle over Spyglass with 4x Cabal Therapy in main? OR It's not worth the lost speed?

I tend to gravitate towards Pithing Needle. I know what cards I want to name anyways, so why tax myself?