[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

Anyways, apart from criticizing other players, I think we should explore more into the red splashes that Citrus and a few others have been discussing. With the success of Ultimate walker for example that runs cards like red elemental blast and ajani vengeant i was wondering if us landstill players could also abuse that power in a finely tuned red splash deck. In the mirror, burns would be great against opposing planeswalkers and as if i remember mossivo said once "REB> format". It seems just as viable as a black splash in which case we splash to tap into the power of vindicate and extirpate

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Originally Posted by mossivo1986

1. d.i.f. hasn't touched landstill since december of last year. i know i kept close contact with him. everytime i talked with him it was always about how white thresh just wins more consistently because it runs better cards.

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I have too. This was when he first introduced Disk into his old list. I was asking him for advice on whether I should run Disk in a Thresh heavy metagame. He told me to cut it.

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now i took his last list and tuned the shit out of it. tuned it so much that at gp chicago i was running over lists that didn't even involve the strategy i was attemting to remove from the populous (graveyard abuse) i also played the archtype with a much more proactive strategy then anything anyone else has been piloting that i've personally seen. throughout all of this i realized that d.i.f's theory although a solid strategy was wrong for the mid-west american meta as a whole. this is around when i started talking to geoff even though i strongly disagreed with his style of redundancy over utility.

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It's been known that DIF plays it more as a control deck. But at the same time, I think it's less about Theory and more about DIF just not caring about playing Landstill in general really. He did essentially turn Landstill into more of a proactive deck later on, and it's hard to pin him down as a person who generally approaches Landstill as more of a control deck compared to that of a Control-Aggro deck.

Geoff has been using the Control-Aggro approach for as long as I know of him playing 3 DoJs in the maindeck. But if you look at Geoff's build, some cards are essentially in the Cunning Wish slot, but it's not Cunning Wish. Yes, I'm referring to EE and especially Vindicate. For Wish to work, you need to answer a certain situation. For Vindicate to work, it also depends on the situation. Sometimes you even point Vindicate at Lands, and that sure as hell isn't working within his redundancy code. In fact, that sort of contradicts it. But again, Geoff is an amazing technical player. He knows when to step off his auto-pilot approach to the deck and just turn it into a real deck.

Also, I think for your style, talking to Geoff has been the better choice. You play your deck proactively, but Geoff plays it fucking aggressively. The word aggressive is rarely used to describe Landstill, but whenever I talk to him about how to play certain decks, he's always turned me on to how DoJ should be approached. It's quite genius. As for the rest, your deck has been redundant for the most part, and every card can be Tutored. So all in all, your deck is essentially a redundant deck with ways to tutor up some utility. You sure as hell aren't playing an outdated underpowered Keeper with 18 singleton utility cards.

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heck i even worked with geoff initially on a build with more utility. but it obviously was not in the cards.

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So have I. In fact, I even have a sideboard entirely dedicated to Cunning Wish pre-board and post-board.

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it is only when gustah told me to run disk as a 1 of for utility and i later understould with his crazy italian ass that it was the inevitability that elspeth achieves with disk (or academy ruins) that truly just nullifies a majority of the decks in this current format. this ranges from stax to merfolk and honestly the model im current

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That sounds so unnecessary. Why can't you just win with Elspeth? In fact, Humility sounds a lot more attractive against Merfolk compared to Disk.

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my model may not be as redundant as geoffs but i personally feel like i have a much wider reach then his deck does. the only thing id like to see happen in my version is a highlander slot for iona/ dredge decks and im not even sure thats at all neccesary. i could easily pull 1 cb out of the board and switch it with a relic but i think thats a bad choice.

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If you saw the Sideboard for my UGWB build, it has 8 singletons with 3 Negates and 2 Grips in addition to those singleton Instants.

And your deck is redundant for the most part. Have you seen how the only singletons you have are Humility and Disk? They essentially serve the same purpose, but Humility is just better.

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Originally Posted by whiteshepherdman

Anyways, apart from criticizing other players,

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It's not criticizing, it's exploring why players like certain cards. I sure as hell wouldn't give up on the Fact or Fiction debate (if it ever popped up again).

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I think we should explore more into the red splashes that Citrus and a few others have been discussing. With the success of Ultimate walker for example that runs cards like red elemental blast and ajani vengeant i was wondering if us landstill players could also abuse that power in a finely tuned red splash deck. In the mirror, burns would be great against opposing planeswalkers and as if i remember mossivo said once "REB> format". It seems just as viable as a black splash in which case we splash to tap into the power of vindicate and extirpate

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I fully agree with discussing the possibilities of Sideboard REBs as well as the addition of maindeck Ajani Vengeants. Especially the SBed REBs. Red Elemental Blast > format

your probobly right about me talking to geoff being better for me. simply because i figured out that i was getting away with murder in alot of situations where i should have just been cold to said matchup.

and yes the 3rd decree was absolutely the right call but it wasnt because i fealt like one needed to use them more aggresively. it was because the first one (generally) feels like s 5_6 mana tempo play. it didn't and doesn't so much stand as a win condition the first time around.

ill talk to you in private messege about dif but not like this.

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Originally Posted by mossivo1986

and yes the 3rd decree was absolutely the right call but it wasnt because i fealt like one needed to use them more aggresively. it was because the first one (generally) feels like s 5_6 mana tempo play. it didn't and doesn't so much stand as a win condition the first time around.

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It depends on what match up you want to see DoJs in. Against Merfolk or Zoo, I tend to use it like you said, a Tempo Card. But because I run 3 copies total, like why you started running 3 copies I know that I will eventually top deck into a DoJ and proceed to hard cast it when the opposing aggro deck is under exhaust. But depends on how fast and how well I can exhaust those decks, the first copy will eventually be the winning copy. They shine even more post-board. I had Zoo decks in testing Fireblasting one of my Angels and hoping to topdeck a burn card so that Mancer + bolt can kill my other Angel or else he'll die next turn.

Against decks like Aggro Loam or Survival, I tend to like hardcasting DoJs early because they have very little answers to flying 4/4s. Especially if you run FoWs and Spell Snares to stop Survivals and Wishes from resolving.

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Originally Posted by LostButSeeking

Cruicible is useful in very long games, but it's also useful in other matchups as well...

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I wasn't saying crucible was a bad card. I was asking why there was only one copy in the 75. This intrigues me and like the singleton Elspeth seems very random.

@Disk issue:

If I understand correctly, Disk is more or less in the same slot as WoG (and possibly humility for those who run it)?
If so I think I'll stick with disk. In my experience it is more useful to be able to blow up their board an their end of turn step to set up something in your own following turn (threat + standstill, ...).
WoG is not nearly as useful as I hoped against goblins because it's not instant and a well-timed warchief can ruin your day. Disk on the other hand costs you a turn you very seldomly have.
In the end (and in my meta) it's the flexibility (being able to hit artifacts/enchantments et al) and the colorlessness that makes me choose 2 disk in my 75.

@Citrus concerning hardcasting DoJ.

Thanks for the explanation on that one. I always felt unsure when/how to use decree in the late game. I think I err to much on the safe side instead of just going beatdown late game...
Is that also what is meant my Konsultant playin aggressive? Tapping out midgame (or so) for 2-3 angel tokens? Is 2 tokens enough against decks without sweepers (supposing you have no protection)?

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Originally Posted by Reagens

@Citrus concerning hardcasting DoJ.

Thanks for the explanation on that one. I always felt unsure when/how to use decree in the late game. I think I err to much on the safe side instead of just going beatdown late game...

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It depends on the situation. Most of the times when I do go for the Angel beat down, I tend to have FoW in my hand or two untapped lands for (or bluffing) Counterspell.

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Is that also what is meant my Konsultant playin aggressive? Tapping out midgame (or so) for 2-3 angel tokens? Is 2 tokens enough against decks without sweepers (supposing you have no protection)?

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Not exactly tapping out, but definitely planned assault. Sometimes he'll hold FoW in his hand or he'll leave a land or two untapped holding up a Spell Snare or Counterspell. Usually keeping mana open when you feel that you should go for the throat is helpful, especially against Aggro Loam or Survival. Thankfully, Spell Snare counters Burning Wish, Survivals and Devastating Dreams.

Not to derail the current discussion because I find it very interesting, but this past week I ran up against a BWG Rock-ish deck with Confidant, Tombstalker, Finks, Goyf, Vindicate, Deed, Wasteland, etc. I found the matchup to be almost impossible. While I could answer his threats for quite some time, he had an equally easy time answering mine (note: he is a very, very good player). He held Vindicate for Elspeth, he played Deed proactively to keep my Factories/Decrees in check, he sat on Wasteland for the same reason and he ran his threats out one at a time so I had to go 1-for-1 on each of his creatures. Because he had multiple answers to all of my threats, I was NEVER able to apply any pressure and he eventually won a war of attrition. I brought in 4 Path and 4 Counterbalance and it didn't help game 2 (although I never saw CB). I was also behind on cards for most of the game. Whenever I resolved a Standstill he'd play Hymn into it. This was definitely a time when I missed Fact or Fiction, because the match played like a control mirror. How do I win this matchup? (FYI - I was playing a Cunning Wish build without Vindicate)

I'd side in 3 paths, 2 relics and a crucible and pull out my wraths and EEs. They have relatively average amounts of threats that we can deal with them one at a time. what bothers me are when stronghold and eternal witness gets online... which is why i run relics and paths. I've also tried Geoff's new sb of 1 of counterspell as the 4th counterspell in game two. I side out a force in game 2 for that 4th counterspell and it really seems like the right play. They don't have a really explosives turn 1 so the card advantage you get from counterspell over force of will will help you later if they get their graveyard recursion online.

I honestly don't think Rock should be a real problem, especially if they're not running loam, since you have all the CA you need to answer everything in a long game which it will most likely become and stuff like Elspeth or Jace truly shines since they can stick around for ages.

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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm

I honestly don't think Rock should be a real problem, especially if they're not running loam, since you have all the CA you need to answer everything in a long game which it will most likely become and stuff like Elspeth or Jace truly shines since they can stick around for ages.

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Planeswalkers are indeed pretty good here.

I'm sorry if it's been mentioned before (I didn't see it), but has anyone ever considered playing with Gifts Ungiven in Landstill? Is FoF just better?

Gifts for something like > Crucible, Ruins, EE, Reconstruction/Regrowth/Grim Discovery. Seems pretty solid.

Just curious : By using RED in landstill, aren't we making ourselves vulnerable to BEB (in the Merfolk MU)? Would a mix of WOG and Firesprout be a better idea?

RED/PYRO seem the nuts against blue...

Robert

I can see the power of Red Elemental Blast, but I don't see the need for Firespout. If your manabase is stable enough, getting to enough lands to cast WoG, even through taxing effects like Daze and Cursecatcher, shouldn't be a problem. Postboard, with 8 1cc spot removal effects (StP/PtE), I don't see why people are finding themselves needing Firespout for aggro, when Wrath of God is a better overall sweeper. Oh well.

@ Citrus God: Thanks for filling in alot of responses for me, unfortunatly it is pretty rare that I have time to get on and post these days. Obviously we have talked some and after going over some of my strategies with you, you have a pretty good idea of what I am doing and why. I think you covered all of the questions posed, thanks. If anybody had something else just pm it to me and i'll get back to you when I get a chance.

I was incredaibly happy with the list from last week. Alot of stuff looks random but it is extensively tested, probably about 500 games against the top 15 decks over the last month and every match up is in Landstill's favor except Ichorid. That's primarily because of the difficulty in winning game one and if they get a solid hand and I don't it can be hard to take game 2 and game 3. Stuff like the 1 Crucible and 4th Wrath and Counter in the SB look random but they are all part of thouroughly developed SB strategies that cover every deck I'd expect to see and the random shit that's out there.

My Abbreviated and much delayed tournament report:

Round one vs Burn.
This was a deck of 17-land, 4 Grim Lavamncer and 33 Bolt effects and 8 Volcanic fallout effects. I took game one at 1-life but the only out they had would have been a third volcanic fallout due to my double counter in hand at the end of the game. Bring in more counter's and open hand double standstill, good game.

Round 2 vs Merfolk.
Lose game one, sb heavy for the Merfolk plan and blow him out game 2 and 3.

Round 3 VS Ultimate Walker {the guy that ended up winning the event}
Lose 0-2. Not knowing his list at the time I dind't realize how fortunate he was with the cards he drew against but he nuetered 1 Fof and 3 Standstills during the course the first ten turns of game one and had double ancestral visions. I end up losing to Crucible+Waste with Academy Ruins. Game 2 he go's for an early Ajani Vengeant and wins the counter war due to Reb, I don't find a vindicate in time and he keeps tapping down my factory. After seeing his list I don't know if it would turn out the same if we played more games but he crushed me in those two games.

Round 4 vs Merfolk.
Win 2-0, he is playing U/W with STP and I take game 1 and crush him game 2.

Round 5 vs Mirror.
I win 2-0.

Round 6 Draw.

Top 8 vs U/w Merfolk again, same guy.
lose 0-2

Game one he gets Triple Mutavault, Triple Fow, Double Waste and a Stifle. I die to Mutavault although I did manage to kill two of them I couldn't resolve an answer for the third in time.

Game 2 I keep a semi risky hand. My only relevent colered mana is a tundra but I have a factory and the swamp plus i have brainstorm and preacher and plague. I keep, don't hit any more lands and end up playing the tundra turn 3, he has the waste and so i brainstorm but the only land i hit is another factory with no shuffle effects. i effectively time stretch him for the loss.

The list did what I wanted it to, Merfolk will never be an auto win with our mana base and the ultimate walker match up is like playing against UWr landstill but worse. Snare has no targets and ee is practicaly worthless. The deck effectively plays around the meta like it was designed to do.

Anyone have thoughts on trying to beat that Ultimate Walker deck?

I played it twice last weekend, only beat it once (barely) in a grueling 47 minute game one, whats good here?

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Originally Posted by RogueMTG

Anyone have thoughts on trying to beat that Ultimate Walker deck?

I played it twice last weekend, only beat it once (barely) in a grueling 47 minute game one, whats good here?

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Red Elemental Blast. :)

Actually, it's slow as balls, but it can't be countered. I'm saying Aeon Chronicler would be decent in this match up. Crucible of Worlds helps too, but you have to resolve it.

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Originally Posted by Citrus-God

Red Elemental Blast. :)

Actually, it's slow as balls, but it can't be countered. I'm saying Aeon Chronicler would be decent in this match up. Crucible of Worlds helps too, but you have to resolve it.

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Indeed. Spell Pierce is also an option and Planar Cleansing (although I don't think anyone uses that and I probably wouldn't want it in the sb).

telemins performsnce

Duress or Thoughtsieze would be huge against Ultimate Walker.

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Originally Posted by konsultant

Duress or Thoughtsieze would be huge against Ultimate Walker.

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Combo and really any control, too. Is this an idea worth expanding on?

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Originally Posted by rsaunder

Combo and really any control, too. Is this an idea worth expanding on?

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Ive run them before, they really only shine against control but they are decent against combo.

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all im going to say about hanni is the dude is over in every other thread as well trying to mix decks around. check out his white splash thresh list which features such heavy hitters as elspeth and w.o.g.

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Totally missed this. I feel obligated to reply.

What's wrong with innovation? Isn't that how we get new and improved decks constantly? Have you tried the CounterTop deck I posted to know whether it's any good or not? Rhetorical questions, they don't need answered.

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Originally Posted by konsultant

Duress or Thoughtsieze would be huge against Ultimate Walker.

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I would say so too, but REB can counter Ancestral Visions... then again, taking out their bombs might be a better play here.

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I would say so too, but REB can counter Ancestral Visions... then again, taking out their bombs might be a better play here.

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Or just abuse Counterbalance, since you have similar curves...

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Originally Posted by Hanni

Or just abuse Counterbalance, since you have similar curves...

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They have REBs to fight over Counterbalance against us. And they have EEs, Spell Snares, FoWs, EEs and such.

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They have REBs to fight over Counterbalance against us. And they have EEs, Spell Snares, FoWs, EEs and such.

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I'm guessing EE is really important, given the double emphasis?

REB is definitely a strong tool. It gives them a huge advantage.

However, I personally run 4 BEB's. So honestly, it's fight fire with fire.

Everything else in [my] deck gives me a superior control matchup. I'll go into this in detail with you if you want to PM me or hit me up on messenger.

EDIT: You didn't reply fast enough, so I'm off to the bar.

I know BEB is dead against them, but it answers Ajani and their REB's, which is a better replacement for WoG's than anything else. Oblivion Rings aren't bad to bring in either, since they handle Planeswalker's, but seriously... Counterbalance is a beating once it resolves. EE is their only good answer, for which I do run 4 Counterspells... if they get a Ruins lock going, sure, but I also have a stronger Standstill presence vs them because I run Decree. I'm not saying it's a great matchup, but honestly, how often do you really expect to run into that matchup...?

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Originally Posted by Hanni

I'm guessing EE is really important, given the double emphasis?

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It's painful man. EE is huge against the format.

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REB is definitely a strong tool. It gives them a huge advantage.

However, I personally run 4 BEB's. So honestly, it's fight fire with fire.

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But here's the problem, BEB only protects your threats, doesn't stop your opponent's threats.

(Hanni)
I'm not going to go into great detail about white splash thresh. but its quite common knowledge that the deck sacrifices overall reach to play the best (most efficient) spells in the format. by doing so it doesn't need to run reset buttons which become (win-more) and are also dead against virtually any kind of control (including aggro control). To quickly respond it's not innovation. Let me ask u. Do YOU really think the better thresh pilots of the world didn't test w.o.g. or elspeth, initially and make a judgement call based on said cards abilities to win games?

and it's quite funny that u have this middle ground of efficiency in landstill ala cb in the maindeck. its like u have a middle ground between thresh and landstill but u cant find it.

also beb is amazing against ajani vengeant wastelock forbid.dec it helps stop the initial plainswalker and honestly its the visions and wastelock that kill u. not anything else. but bring in cb and they have forbid.force.2ee.and maybe 3 blast to deal with it. personally i think somebody must be joking arpund here because i dont buy how ee is as strong for them as it is for u with said reach plus wish

They were rhetorical questions, mossivo. I'm not going to get into a discussion about Thresh in the Landstill thread, and I'm not going to waste my time explaining something to you that you're too hardheaded to understand. Continue to make funny jokes all you want. I'll worry about your opinions after you actually test the ideas, otherwise, it's a waste of my time to respond to you.

I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, but why don't you post some results instead? I don't always agree with the choices Mossivo makes, but at least he's got results to back them up.

Maybe you have them too, I don't know. But right now it's just theorycraft vs actual results (mossivo, gustha and let's not forget konsultant) and I'm sorry but I have to say I'd rather play the decks/use the choices that get the results.

Please don't see this as an attack on your person.

Hanni hasn't been able to make many tournaments due to work/location/whatever. He's said so a million times, but I agree. The ideas are cool and innovative but to get people to listen, well, money talks :wink:

Like who here would discount Geoff? Hanni, you must agree you're a lot easier to write off, due to lack of results and that's something you'll have to make up for somehow. Not saying your ideas are bad/not worth trying, but it's a rough sell without results.

+2 On results argument. Nuff' Said.

Easy men, easy...

As for the results argument, well money talks, ofc. But as I mean it, actually playing a deck doesn't mean copying what one or more skilled player plays because "well, there are results, so if I put this and this and this together, well, this is unbeatable etc.". Remember that it's not the sword that wins a fight, but the arm that wields it. Actually playing a deck means also to be curious to find out new experiences, versions variants, etc. If you want to criticize whoever's version, put together the cards and test it against diverisifed fields. So yes, tournament resuls matter. But someone please will tell me when this variant will get to have relevant tournament results if there is only one player that plays it? You see it's a vicious circle.
[It's true that sometimes it seems hanni is claiming too strongly things about his list only he knows (being the only who actually tested it). I'll beg moderation on both sides.]

Don't want/have the courage to test it? Fine. But if the only reason is that this newborn version has not get relevant tournament results, it's simply silly. Mossivo don't want test it because he doesn't basically want to get rid of snares and explosives, which are two of the most powerful spells in landstill as I see it: hanni's version is simply totally out of his mental schemes. That's fine. But that doesn't logically mean the deck is crap. So Ectoplasm and the rest, if you want to test it, build the deck and have some games with your friends, don't wait for results, make your own!

(I'm saying this only for moderation's sake. I don't owe nothing to hanni nor he is my best friend.)

How does everyone feel about the spell Meditate?.

Does it see any play? Or is it too weak to give up a turn to gain cards?

i dont think we can give up a turn, it defeats the purpose of wrath of god, vindicates, standstill etc. You draw standstill and give up a turn so they build board position and now you can't play standstill anymore. Same with wrath in which timing is important because you want to play that as soon as they commit enough creatures to give you card advantage. If you give them an extra turn you can't clear the board before all those creatures get in some damage which is bad if it drops you down to like 5. for 4 mana you get fact or fiction. For 2 you get standstill which is much more synergistic to this deck than meditate. Instant speed brainstorm and card filtering with sensei's top should be more than enough draw. I haven't seen anyone playing meditate in landstill yet. Personally if i wanted another draw 3 i'd just play ancestral vision.

Went a modest 3-3 today in an 48-man, Beating zoo, Rock and some goblin/sligh homebrew, losing to faeries and twice to Ichorid. Some random thoughts:

Ajani Goldmane straightup won the game every time he touched the board
It's possible to beat Ichorid without GY hate
Changing your sideboard at the last minute, removing GY hate to pack combo hatebears isn't a good idea (met 2 of the grand total of 3 ichorid players in the room, and 0 of the approx. 44 ANT players)

Props:
Ajani

Slops:
The Dutch metagame for being everywhere

If there's interest (which I doubt) I'll post some more details but for now I'm gonna go sleep.

Report from the Meandeck Open in Columbus, OH. I won't waste time with making a thread in the Reports forum. Not the greatest of days, going 2-2-1 and ID'ing with a teammate. Let me just say, I definitely misread a LOT pre-tournament, and definitely paid for it. Will explain SB choices here in a moment.

List ran:

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// Lands
    1 [B] Underground Sea
    2 [GUR] Plains
    2 [GUR] Island
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    1 [B] Scrubland
    4 [R] Tundra
    3 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
    1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
    1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
    1 [GUR] Swamp
    1 [FUT] Tolaria West
    2 [TE] Wasteland
    1 [TSP] Academy Ruins

// Creatures
    1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
    3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    3 [R] Wrath of God
    3 [SC] Decree of Justice
    4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    3 [OD] Standstill
    3 [5E] Brainstorm
    3 [ST] Counterspell
    2 [DIS] Spell Snare
    1 [CFX] Path to Exile
    3 [DD2] Fact or Fiction
    3 [AP] Vindicate

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [MOR] Negate
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 2 [DK] Preacher
SB: 2 [TE] Perish
SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [CFX] Path to Exile

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Anyhow, I was expecting a heavy aggro meta for this, and from what I did see, definitely reflected it. Anyhow, I figured the 'pates were good for the Combo matchup + expected newfound Entomb decks, Perish was great for NO-CB and maybe even Zoo in general. Probably should have just did the +1 Path, +1 Negate like a normal SB.

Misplays were definitely really, really costly, and with my luck only at crucial times. Probably could be sitting on at least 3-1-1 instead of 2-2-1 going into the last round to give me a shot at T8. Anyhow, without further ado, I'll try to be brief, but there's quite a bit, and it gives me a chance to whine a little :laugh: . A lot of eye rolling / "fml" from myself, as I became a little more angry at my metagame call each game.

Round 1: Richard Linscott with Blue Stax
I keep a hand with 2 blue fetches, a Factory, FoF, and CS. I lay a fetch and pass. He opens on the draw with City of Traitors and Chalice @1. Whoa. Didn't see that one. I'm reading Stax/Stompy variant obviously, but there's no color added. I wait it out. Feel a little more calm. His next play is a Seat of the Synod, so I read Tezzeret Stax. I draw into a Wasteland, kill the Seat, and pass the turn. He lays an Island and doesn't play anything. I build up my land count to 4, never seeing anything threatening because he *can't* play anything. I then FoF at the end of his turn, bluffing the "omg-I-want-EE" look while holding on to one. Thanks for the draw-4. I blow up Chalice, Brainstorm a bit, and beat face with Factory for the win.

Siding: +2 Negate, +3 Extirpate, +1 Crucible, +1 Crypt. Oddly enough, no notes on what I took out, although I'm assuming some of the creature removal cards.

Game 2 is a little scary, since I don't see a Factory when he's beating me with one. I do hear, however, that DoJ soldier tokens block Factory really well, so even if he has me agitated with Thorn of Amethyst, I cycle it for enough to take down a Factory. I then answer on consecutive turns Smokestack (CS), Crucible (NEG), and Tezzeret (FoW), while the soldier tokens get there. He reveals to me after the game (through my puzzlement) that he has no Metalworker to help drop things.

2-0 games, 1-0 matches.


Round 2: Joe Ross with LED-Ichorid.
This is definitely the match where I wanted to punt my deck across the room. Not a whole ton of notes for this one, but I punted a post-sided g2 (lost g1 to a stripped hand with 2-3 Cabal Therapy and a very large GGT) with a really crappy draw. Game one was a blowout, I have here that I swords a threshold'ed Putrid Imp (ugh...).

Siding: +3 Extirpate, +3 Engineered Plague, +1 Path, +1 Crypt (Yikes!), -3 Standstill, -2 Spell Snare, -3 Fact or Fiction.

I start off pretty good, Extirpating a Stinkweed Imp after he has no lands (Ichorid food + Dredging). Factories get him to 5, and he starts to dredge into real stuff. At this point, I've drawn no :w: sources to take care of anything, and when I finally get a Wasteland to assassinate my own Factory and take out his bridges, there's already 7 Zombies out, and it's a lost cause. Was holding a Tolaria West for most of the game with no second :u: source too to get Crypt / EE. My hand consisted of DoJ, StP, StP, PtE, and Vindicate. Thanks, luck.

2-2 games, 1-1 matches


Round 3: Bob Holland (JEDI KNIGHT from The Source, part of Team Akron)
Bob's a really chill guy, and we tend to have fun games anyways, as we seem to always get paired up when my team and I go to Wadsworth. I had thought he was playing B/U Reanimator, but instead he's doing the traditional BGW Trix deck that he ran (Mesmeric Field/Tidehollow/Bob/Goyf control-ish stuff). Game one I mulled to 6, but around the time where I started to gain card advantage, Bob scooped with 4 lands in hand, and me with 2 active Factories.

Siding: +3 Extirpate (right call? Eh), +1 Path, -3 Standstill, -1 Fact or Fiction. Game two, an early Hymn to Tourach takes a FoW and WoG (kinda my fault for siding out 4 blue's), and although I'm able to stabilize, he plays Choke (damn tertiary :g:), and I didn't see it coming. We scoop and go to game three while he beats my face in with a Jitte'ed Tidehollow Sculler.

Game three starts off about the same as the second game, except I am able to stabilize through Choke with a Tolaria West (LOL :laugh:). I then am able to Extirpate his 'Goyfs. Vindicate his one of his 2 Tombstalkers, and he's waiting, waiting, waiting... and so am I. Neither of us draw threats, and we end up having to draw. I'm cool with that.

3-3-1 games, 1-1-1 matches


Round 4: Stephen Menendian (Smmenen on The Source) playing 3c CB-Thresh (with tricks)
So, everyone pretty much knows Stephen, as he is, after all, the celebrity host of our tournament here. I knew he played 3c CB-Thresh from the Meandeck in August, but that's about it. Whatever, right? What's the worst that can happen?

I think Stephen actually took down more notes than I did regarding this matchup. I was kind of on tilt for the entire matchup, kinda awkward when you know the dude across from you by reputation. Game one starts off with playing fetches and starting at each other, until he wants to resolve a Bob and I can't let it hit the table. Force meets Force, but I send Bob farming the next turn. Indeed, still UGb Thresh. We trade land drops, cantrips, and whatnot for a couple of turns, and Stephen taps for 2 and makes... a Vampire Hexmage. Whoa, fuck. :eek: Luckily, no Dark Depths on the table, and I fight to make an EE @ 2 stick on the board. Realizing that everything in his deck is 2cc, I felt good about upping the count to 3 (and Tolaria West to tutor for it) in the MD. I get Clique'ed twice in this game, both of which made me really miss having them in the original LS build, but the first puts away a Force of Will, which draws into a WoG. I take a Goyf + Vendilion Clique with it the following turn. When I finally rip an Academy Ruins to start recurring EE @ 2 with StP backup, Stephen Cliques me the second time (after recursion + draw step), and knowing 4 of the 5 cards in my hand, didn't see the FoW that I drew the previous turn. Factory pressure and a Standstill is enough for him to scoop to game two.

Siding: +3 Extirpate, +1 PtE, -3 Fact or Fiction, -1 Decree of Justice.

I have to mull to 5 on this game, as I do not see fetches or decent mana sources in my first two hands. And I'm on the play. Ugly. LotV starts off in play on Menendian's side, and I'm kind of giving a puzzling look. Oh yeah, I forgot about that whole recursion thing last game. We play fetches and stare at each other again, and he plays Bob. I try to Snare it. No dice. He plays a second Bob the turn after, and all of the sudden, I'm feeling really nervous. Bobs net him 4 cards (I think, notes are a little scribbly at this point). Before they're taken out by an EE @ 2. I have a Wasteland sitting on my side, and eventually I draw into 2 Extirpates and a Force in my hand. Counterbalance/Top is eventually assembled on his side, but I'm able to play another EE @ 2 (costing 3), to take it out. Goyf beats me down to 5 life, but with a DoJ, I'm able to stall with soldier chump blockers while I find a Vindicate for it. I decide to use Extirpate on the Goyf while he still has two left. Force of Will gets 'pated within the next few turns, and for the rest of the game, I trade Counterspells and spot removal for his threats. I do believe soldiers + Elspeth get there after a Factory gets Grip'ed.

5-3 games, 2-1-1 matches


Round 5: Stephen Hara with Merfolk
Stephen's on my team, and has an inside joke with me when I played Dredge for three whole weeks. I know this is a terrible matchup, so I guess I won't go into the specifics. All I will say about this match is, getting a tapped Mutavault instead of the 7/7 Wake Thrasher coming in for lethal with Preacher is an face palming way to die. This is one matchup that I didn't test well before this tournament, but hope to improve on. God, that was ugly.

6-5 games, 2-2-1 matches


Round 6: Harrison Laws with Enchantress
Harrison's my buddy and fellow Culture Crew branch of our team, and we do an ID for the last round, but decide to play it out. I get crushed, and realize that Disk+Elspeth > Enchantress, which I am running only one of the said cards in 1x. What a beating, and makes me miss the original list.


So I end the night 2-2-2. Things I like about this list: more Swords effects are definitely great, but I didn't see Zoo or more aggro based decks today to reap the benefits of more maindeck spot removal and/or cheaper Countermagic (in the form of Spell Snare). I also didn't get to play this against TES and try the Extirpates, but they were okay when I sided them in. Taking a Goyf as an uncounterable 4(or 3/2)-for-1 sometimes is okay when you're stabilizing, but it's gimmicky. No Disk, and seeing Elspeth only a few times in the entire tournament was something that I was not accustomed to. I like the inevitability and reset-button nature with Disk and what it brings to this list.


Anyhow,

Props:
Decent start at 2-1-1 with hopes for sniffing T8
Meeting Joel, mossivo1986 (needs no introduction here!) at the tournament, but didn't get to visit with him for long.
Vindicate!
Recurring EE with Academy Ruins.
Seeing Team Akron, always good times when they come down
Going to BD's after the tournament to hang out

Slops:
Making terrible calls on the metagame (didn't expect Dredge, didn't see Entomb-based decks, didn't run into Zoo once, wasted slots on Perish in SB).
Finishing the day 0-1-1
Shitty draws against Dredge
Tapped Mutavaults
Not having Disk
Skipping a lot of homework this weekend to test/play in this tournament


Yeah, I think that about covers it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konsultant

I made top 8 of a 42 man event yesterday with the new list I have been working on. This list should be in the top 8 lists thread. Sorry I don't quite know how to link to another page but if somebody that does know how would do it that would be cool.

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@all : I'am sorry, but i can't find that list/event can please somebody help me, that would be nice, thank you !

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...t=14720&page=5

@Morbid

Why perish?
Even when you expect a lot of green you already have 3 WoG, 4 plow, 1pte,...


I also think that running 3 explosives + Tolaria West is too much.

As a final note I think that you boarded in extirpate way too many times. I know it is tempting to do but you have to board it very carefully.

Personally I would board it against:

- every deck with a loam engine
- combo
- ichorid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reagens

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...t=14720&page=5

@Morbid

Why perish?
Even when you expect a lot of green you already have 3 WoG, 4 plow, 1pte,...


I also think that running 3 explosives + Tolaria West is too much.

As a final note I think that you boarded in extirpate way too many times. I know it is tempting to do but you have to board it very carefully.

Personally I would board it against:

- every deck with a loam engine
- combo
- ichorid

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Yeah, I agree. I think the main problem was I overthought this tournament to begin with (old list + old SB would have been fine, no?). Tolaria West was included in the mana base so I could cut it to 1 Crypt (just in case... which led to me running into one of the two people playing Dredge), and was fine, as it did its job when I needed EE. About the 'pates, I tried to play way more aggressively than my usual playstyle, hoping that I could apply enough pressure with Factory/DoJ early on, while removing their more important threats.

Obviously, from results, that didn't happen. One last note about the Perishes in the SB, my pre-tournament reads were way off to begin with, but the goal was to try and have an earlier sweeper to reset the board with Daze mana backup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reagens

I also think that running 3 explosives + Tolaria West is too much.

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That brings up an interesting point that I've been wondering myself as well. If you have Tolaria West, do you still need 3 E.E. like most lists or can you cut it down to 2?
I think perhaps 3 is still likely the proper amount to use, because I find that I usually want it early and with 2 and Tolaria West, I may have to wait until at least turn 3 to get it.
I've been testing West again and was wondering if I should take out the 3rd E.E. or the 3rd Top to make room.