http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=40711Quote:
Originally Posted by AggroSteve
Probably playing UBg again for now.
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http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=40711Quote:
Originally Posted by AggroSteve
Probably playing UBg again for now.
Maindeck:
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tombstalker
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Brainstorm
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Ancestral Vision
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Ghastly Demise
1 Nature's Claim
2 Spell Pierce
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Consuming Vapors
2 Thoughtseize
Worth testing, I certainly would rather play this than Deedstill.
I've been testing this deck all day on cockatrice. While facing a handful of different decks, including Midrange Junk/Deadguy, NO RUG, NO Bant, reanimator, dredge, this deck does pretty well. It definitely beats on combo, obviously, but it has plenty of removal to deal with midrange as well. I have been told that this deck struggles against merfolk and zoo, but I have yet to test it. Definitely very solid, and this is coming from a NO RUG player as well :)
I also want to test it.
Did you read this article: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ure_Today.html
Gerrys deck looks like a hybridization to me...
this looks (close) to an old list but it had dark confidants instead of visions. I guess the meta is slow enough to draw 3 cards from visions and hard enough for bob to survive for 3 rounds
Hi :smile:
This is the Team America I lent out to my friend Mike Dalton. He ended up winning my 30 player legacy event with it. Tournament thread with full top 4 decklists here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Plateau-Sav-20!
2 Go for the Throat
2 Terravore
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Jace TMS
3 Mental Misstep
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Hymn To Tourach
2 Speel Snare
2 Stifle
2 Daze
1 Verdant
4 Misty
4 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
4 U. Sea
3 Trop Island
3 Bayou
SB: 3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 K. Grip
2 Consuking Vapors
2 Ghastly Demise
2 LLawan
2 Thoughtseize
1 Go for the Throat
1 Engineered Explosives
Pretty conventional list. We had thoughtseize main but switched it with stifles. He wasn't happy with stifle either. We'll probably add a 4th misstep and a misdirection in place.
The sideboard was money for him all day. Alot of anti-creature cards gives him a fighting chance against zoo, but it's still a horrible matchup and he got lucky dodging it all day.
I used to have Tombstalker over Terravore, but you really can't afford flipping one off confidant and terravore isnt that much worse than tombstalker as it's always at least a 5/5, and usually alot bigger. The trample comes in handy :cool:
I like Team America alot. Always have. I think zoo is almost unwinnable and Combo isn't fantastic either with a good player behind it, but almost every other match for major decks is 50/50 or better.
Thanks for looking and take care!
- Dave
As predicted, mental misstep has gotten the banhammer. I think this ultimately benefits our deck, because now we can stifle with impunity ;)
Actually, the real benefit is going to be from the inevitable metagame shift this causes. Decks like goblins and countertop may come back in force, and those are easy enough matchups with the right build.
Plus it opens up 4 more slots in the deck . . . I was really tired of starting every build with the same 12 blue cards . . .
It does seem like time to bring back Stifle, thats for sure. Also probably time to pack up my Ancestral Visions, which had been quite a bit of fun the last 2 weeks but won't survive the onslaught that is a slightly speedier format.
Is it time to go back to 4ofs TA?
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tombstalker
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Removal Spells
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Predict
2 ?? (EE/Library/something?)
4 Waste
4 Underground
2 Trop
2 Bayou
8 Fetch
J
The ban is stupid and it hurts this deck more than anything. Keeping your opponent on T1/T2 is the whole goal. Now instead of trying to develop the meta to push certain cards out of prominence lets just ban everything!
Really poor form by WotC.
I don't think you're right. I'm not happy they banned Misstep, but it's going to benefit Team America. It makes Stifle more reliable, which is big. But more importantly it's going to make Storm combo a much bigger metagame presence, and any time combo gets stronger, Team America also gets stronger, because it's a natural predator to combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Worm1605
Anyway, what do we do with those 4 extra slots? Does Snapcaster deserve a 2 or 3-of spot in the deck now that Misstep is gone? Recurring Brainstorm is nice, but in the faster tempo version of the deck I think it's probably unnecessary and/or too slow. Am I wrong about that?
Also, with the format inevitably getting faster without Misstep in the picture, does Clique become too slow in the tempo build? I've been running them as a 2-of and I really like the added disruption/threat density, but I'm not sure if they're still going to be worth it.
I guess aggro matchup is gone out of the window for Team America? Let's hope combo comes back to punish MM whiners in full force :)
If we follow Gerry T's list for aggro I think we should be fine. He runs 3 deeds and 3 ghastly demises. With NO RUG gone, I think we can swap diabolic edicts for go for the throats. I think this deck is solid against aggro with all the removal, as well as consuming vapors as a lategame bomb. This, combined with our heavy discard as well as creatures, pits us fine against aggro.
Of course we have to hope for combo heavy meta.
We are not interested in a 2/1 body and flashbacking black removal is not as attractive as swords, so I don't think snapcaster is interesting. We also run daze instead of snare
What I am thinking about is bringing thoughtseize back and curving out with liliana and vendilion clique.
In a tempo orientied build where we emtpy our hand I would like to try liliana. She and 1-2 creatures should often ride us to victory. Liliana is good versus combo and creatures decks and we can break the symmetry by either having bad spells in the mid - late game or by just by playing them. I am more worried about Goblins, since they also want to make a comeback. Therefore 5 MD removal spells + 2 thoughtseize could be an option. Concerning removal I thing Ghastly Demise (2 MD - 2 SB) will be much better than they used to be to take out early goblins or merfolks.
I hope the TA community will go through some heavy testing to post the right answers for the different decks/meta's.
Here's what I'm planning to test, just brewing up a quick non-MM build, based on what I used to play before:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tombstalker
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Dismember
SB:
1 Spell Pierce
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Submerge
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
It's a shame that Darkblast (the house!) will not be as powerful catch-all against NO RUG (and other NO decks for that matter), but I suppose if people keep playing GSZ for Arbor and manadorks, I'll go back to 2 Darkblasts in the side :)
This might be a stupid question but why would NO RUG go away?Quote:
With NO RUG gone [...]
I imagine it will be stronger since we can not MM noble/BS to keep them off mana?
Also, is Jace 2.0 less good now without MM in TA? I imagine that alot of aggro creatures and fast beaters will get online, before he ever can do anything great for this deck? (Assuming we dont hymn off their creatures and dont draw our removal ^^)
It's true and I'm just making an assumption, I just figured that since MM is gone, Aggro (particularly Zoo and Goblins) will get stronger and prey on slower midrange decks like NO RUG. Not saying it's gone (I know, I did :P), but I think it will be in a worse position after the ripples from the banning has settled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neffy
Well NO RUG and NO BANT can still have a 3rd turn Progeniuts and attack on turn 4..But I'm curious to see how they will handle the rush from Goblins and Zoo until turn 4.
I think if you are playing a tempo deck you will either go with Canadian Thresh which is stronger against aggro or Team America which is stronger against combo post MM.
The main challenges for a traditional stifle build as i see them
-How to beat Hierarch decks without misstep (i suspect we want snuff out back)
-Keeping a good Fish matchup post board (this gets easier when you have 4 less cards to board out)
-High Tide (yes this is actually a combo deck we can lose to without preparation)
-Control and midrange matchups (Loam,Sylvan library, snapcaster, Liliana or something different to give value when the games go long)
I do think that either liliana or snapcaster could be the key to making Team America dominate.
Note that with misstep gone it gets significantly more difficult to keep our critters alive, particularly postboard when every deck brings in extra plows or submerges, i.e. The postboard plan of bringing in Jaces remains as important as it ever was.
Visions is still and option, i was doing fine with it pre-misstep, but it is probably inferior to a more focused build. Curving visions into hymn is not quite as atractive when you don't have misstep to make up for lost tempo.
for the High Tide matchup, remember that we're not exactly going back to where we were pre-misstep. They got Flusterstorm to protect the combo now, which is essentially a hard counter when they're going off.
I was having decent luck beating High Tide against really good players with Dispel and Thoughtseize out of the board before. If I keep stifles in to potentially stifle a flusterstorm trigger, candelabra trigger, or fetch, the matchup might not suck too much. Still gonna have to draw a beater early to do much against them.
J
This is my rough draft of a tempo build:
20 lands (9 fetch 7 dual 4 waste)
4 goyf
4 stalker
4 fow
4 daze
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 stifle
4 hymn
2 predict
1 sylvan library
5 metagamed removal:
2 snuff out/dismember
2 maelstrom pulse/gftt/e explosives
1 liliana of the veil (maybe...)
The sideboard would start out with:
3 ghastly demise
3 pernicious deed
3 spell pierce/thoughtseize
I'd expect to see goblins return, and so having removal that can answer a lackey on the draw is going to be important in winning this matchup. Combo decks should pose little trouble for us even without misstep. Zoo will remain a miserable matchup, and I'm not sure any amount of sideboarding is going to flip the favor our way.
Predict is an interesting card that I think warrants revisiting. Its easy to set up with the rest of the deck, and helps accelerate you into the first or multiple tombstalkers.
Snapcaster would be more of an end-game spell for us, since the best play would likely be flashing back a hymn. 4 mana at sorcery speed is not something this deck can really accomplish in most matchups, and as a sideboard card there are better options against control. But as with everything, it deserves some actual testing.
Liliana I think fits in nicely as a miser singleton. Like Sylvan Library, you'd hardly never be sad to see her, but you dont want multiples. She helps out against combo and control in the mid/late game, but also functions as a mediocre removal spell against aggro/midrange.