Thanks, this helps clear up some of how to board. I had a pretty good assesment of how, but learning how to play it off of Bryant's current list I'm really sort of looking of how to use the 4th blast.
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Thanks, this helps clear up some of how to board. I had a pretty good assesment of how, but learning how to play it off of Bryant's current list I'm really sort of looking of how to use the 4th blast.
I'd bring in all the Pyroblasts, Krosan Grip, and Wipe Away vs Counterbalance. Wipe Away is Krosan Grip number 2 in that match-up. It's there over the 3rd Echoing Truth / Chain of Vapor to be a bounce spell that also answers Counterbalance.
It's not that I have trouble knowing what to board in, that much is obvious. What do I board out? Usually I start with a C. mox and a ponder, an IT, then ...? EtW comes out if I suspect too much token hate, but I am admittedly bad with this deck. What gets taken out?
Edit: Bryant, you update the primer with decklists. Could you perhaps update the boarding plan with the new lists if you find time?
Just played this deck with Bryant's list -1 EtW +1 Ad nauseam and a slightly different SB. Went 3-1
Round 1 Swan Thresh
I turn 1 duress, he dazes. We play draw go a couple turns, I wish for thoughtseize, thoughtseize him, see only 2x SSG and all lands and go off easily.
Game 2 he punts by playing turn 2 meddling mage naming cunning wish instead of burning wish. He never see's a FoW and I go off easily.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 Blue enchantress
So game 1 I combo out with ease with AN. Game 2 he starts with leyline of sanctity, gets turn 2 sterling grove, and it's downhill from there as I can't answer it and when he casts dovescape it's GG's since he has 2 argothian enchantress's out. Game 3 he starts with leyline of sanctity but I have the nuts turn 1 ad nauseam off of 2x lotus petal, dark ritual, cracking LED in response to AN for UUU, reveal half the deck, bounce his leyline, and combo out easily from there.
2-0 (4-1)
Round 3 The Rock
Game 1 he gets a knight of the reliquary, goes down to 17 from thoughtseize and a fetch, I punt this one and wish for tendrils instead of IGG and when I tendrils him he responds with swords to stay alive at 5. I lose shortly thereafter.
Game 2 he starts with leyline and I have lots of mana and I wish for EtW and can't ever get there because he stabilizes with deed so I don't cast EtW instead holding it for later. I cast it later for chump blockers and I block his knight and bob and he doesn't pop deed just leaving it there for no good reason. He also held a hymn to tourach in his hand instead of casting it. Overall I'm disappointed in the loss though because he held hymn against a combo deck and misplayed horribly to win and was lucky since I never drew a business spell just all mana.
Round 4 UGBw something or another just not sure some home brew.
Game 1 I lead with duress, he dazes. I need to draw another protection spell I can cast and fail miserably he gets a nighthawk out and starts beating when he's at some high life I ad nauseam from 10 life and fizzle/lose
Game 2 I lead with duress again, see just a sinkhole or something and combo off the turn after with EtW or something FTW.
Game 3 I'm on the draw and keep a hand with lots of mana and draw ad nauseam off the top cast it with no mana floating and he lacks countermagic so I win.
Overall I'm disappointed losing to the rock of all things. Game 1 should have been mine very easily had I not punted to swords and game 2 I was sad that I didn't board out IT because it would have been very good in the wishboard to get AN and combo off instead of getting EtW which is meaningless against deed. Overall though the deck is incredibly strong though nice job Bryant.
Usually I board out ponder and chrome moxen first. Sometimes chant effects depending on the deck. It really depends on the MU but usually boarding out a pair of ponders and chrome mox is fine.
A small report (8 players) on my last FNM Legacy. I used emidln's list a few pages back with a couple of sideboard changes.
Round 1 vs. CounterBalance Thopter (2-0):
Game 1 - I won the die roll and open a brutal hand consisting of Duress, Mox Diamond, Dark Ritual, AdN and assorted acceleration. I start with Duress, he responds with Brainstorm and with that I knew the game was mine. Duress resolves I choose Counterbalance and proceed to drop my fast mana and AdN for the win. Turn 1 kill.
Game 2 - Very similar to game 1, I once again have fast mana, disruption and AdN. He once again responds to Duress by Brainstorming I see that the coast is clear and ToA for 20. Turn 2 kill.
Round 2 vs. Belcher (2-0):
Game 1 - Win the die roll and have a reasonable hand. Open with Duress and take his only win condition, ETW. He rips a Charbelcher from top and activates it, I luck out and his reveals a Taiga as the 6th card. I can't kill him on my 2nd turn so I pass. On his turn he rips a Spoils of War from the top, casts it naming a LED so he can once again activate Charbelcher. I luck out as the LED is his 23rd card! Turn 2 kill (sort of).
Game 2 - Sick draw = turn 1 kill. I just love to open with fast mana and AdN :) Turn 1 kill.
Round 3 vs. Merfolk (split loosing 1-2):
We agree on the split but still we play it out with the winner getting 1 extra booster as prize.
Game 1 - Loose die roll and mull to 6. Keep a reasonable hand with Duress, 2 Lands, Cantrips and a tutor. I misplay because I'm too used to play with Bryant's list (no basic land) and don't fetch basic lands. My opponent Wastelands me 3 times and I end up stuck with 3x Rite of Flame, 1x LED in hand after using 3 cantrips.
Game 2 - Sick hand = turn 2 kill with Duress backup. Turn 2 kill.
Game 3 - Mull to 5 and keep a hand of Rite of Flame, Chrome Mox, Burning Wish and Infernal Tutor. I can't seem to find the right mana colors and my opponent plays a Energy Flux nailing 2 Chrome Mox killing my red and blue mana sources which combined with Cursecatcher backed me up into a corner.
Overall I'm pretty please with emidln's list and will continue to further test it. It feels faster and more broken thanks to the additional 2x AdN, Mox Diamond and mana stability. Didn't miss anything although when I sat down to play vs. Becher I just kept thinking of how Orim Chant would help, but turned out I didn't really need it. Maybe I'll add another IGG to the side so that I can SB it in instead of the 3rd AdN vs aggro deck as an alternative if I get to lower life points.
I've been really busy lately, honestly, there's pages I haven't read yet. I was just glimpsing at this page and saw my name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammit67
I'll try to get around to it this weekend. No promises.
Thanks Bryant.
A couple of other questions:
While goldfishing, I often found that I wanted to Iggy loop (when playing vs the "burn" glodfish for example), but it was harder with Iggy in the SB, and there were a non-trivial number of times when I wanted wish->tutor->Ad Nauseum but with all 4 tutors maindeck I coudl not. Have you ever tested switchign the IGG out of the board with the 4th IT?
Wy Echoing Truth? Have you ever wanted either a Sorcery speed bounce spell (Eye of Nowhere?) so as to be able to wish into it game 1 instead of 1xTruth? What about pyroclasm? I know you denounced it earlier in the thread, around the time MT was restricted, but I can just see so many possible situations of running into Cannonist + other hatebear(s) (Teeg. Ugh) and having to rape your hand to Grapeshot them all out. Clasm kills every hatebear dead and can also be good in corner cases (like getting Nutdrawn by Gobbos and have to sweep them to avoid dying (yes I get this matchup is horrible for them, but it could be relevant). I'm just missing why 2xTruth is better than this- what do you bring them in for?
Lord I hate Diminishing Returns. Here's maybe an aweful idea, but what do you think of Promise of Power in that slot?
- only costs 1 more mana, but in a better color.
- doesn't give the oppoenent ANY gas
- Gives you 2 less card, but you get to keep anything else in your hand at that point
- no exiling (parts of) the library
- I suppose there might be a corner case in which the making a Fatty mode might be relevant.
Another thought- what about Time Spiral? It's more expensive, but gives us back mana afterwards and doesn't exile the library. Did anyone test it? (I read the thread, but not in the last week or so. I apologize if someone covered this).
About Iggy, One way to see it is, if you have him maindeck, you have 4 IT to get it, if you have it in the side, you got the 4 BW to get it, same number of tutor. Let's be frank, Iggy is a bad topdeck, and is awful in a lot of matchup. So it's regular place is in the sideboard.
If your in a blue light meta, actully playing one main and one side would be a good thing. Bryan list is built for large event with a complete meta, if you know whats played in your area, adapt your pile as you see fit. Most people dont see TES as an adaptable pile, but with this deck, 1 or 2 small changes can impact greatly on how the deck play's out.
About IT in the side, most people think (myself included) that for game 1, having all 4 in the maindeck is better since it give you more kills main. But siding out an IT in certain match-up is a good move to do exactly what you said
Eye of nowhere is'nt really needed, most of the hate you'll want to get ride off can be taken care by other wish target (shattering spree, grapeshot, etc...). In my experience with the deck (I ran EoN for a long time), the few times it actully was a gamebreaker where when I was facing a T2 Marit Lage game 1, and against a game 1 rule of law, that's it. It's not a bad card, there are just better card to use in that spot. TES sideboard is pretty cramped, so you have to optimise available space.
Echoing Truth vs Wipe Away vs Chain of vapor , all 3 are good in their own way. Choose wichever appeal the most to you, sometime your pick will shine, some other time you will wish that it was a different one. (personal note, if you run Krosan grip, dont run Wipe Away, often both cards try to do the same thing)
I actully never tried Pyroclasm and never actully wished I had it, so I dont believe it's needed, but I see it's theorical value.
Diminishing returns is the best HO SHIT! button there is, when Time Sipral was unbanned there was a lots of conversations and testing about DR vs TS vs other options, and DR was declared a winner, the 2 mana difference is actully pretty significant.
Promise of power will get you nowhere, if you want to explore that route, Infernal Contract is your best bet, 4 cards for 3 mana is hard to beat. I dont say it's a good idea, im just saying it's probably the best option outside blue.
So, I'd like some input about our chant effects.
Most people are now playing 3 orim's chant - 1 silence.
I believe this is right in a "mystical tutor is unbanned" format, because if they extirpate, meddling mage, ... chant you still can tutor for your one silence.
We don't have that option anymore.
I believe orim's chant is the better overall card because it's ability to stop aggro for an extra turn.
For those of you who fear misdirection, divert, etc; I'll insert a quote of Bryant:
"Now for people with "BUT OMFGZ Dude WHAT aboutsx Misdirection?!?!1/?" No one plays Misdirection - at all. I don't want to hear it, if you come across someone bad enough to play Misdirection, Mystical Tutor for Silence." :laugh:
So my suggestion is we play either 4 chant/0 silence or 2 chant/2 silence (whether you prefer more "aggro stopping power" vs. infernal tutor for second silence)
It's not the most exciting, uplifting change to the deck, but imo it could make it 0,0001% better. Or am I missing something? DISCUSS!
The fourth chant effect isn't really necessary. Silence randomly gets through the (bad) white leyline. Silence and Infernal Tutor took up the slots opened up by the Mystical Tutor ban.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diprivan
If you want to play 4 Orim's Chant. Play 4. No one's stopping you.
I'm playing chant as a 4-off because I never see any leylines in my meta. I think however if I was going to play in an unknow meta I would probably opt for a 2-2 split.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diprivan
Decklist, sideboarding, and a few new links. Enjoy.
P.S. I spoil you guys, look at other opening posts.
EDIT: If anyone knows of any articles/reports that I've missed lemme know.
You forgot mine.
BTW I recently Top 8'd a Moat tournament.
Niceeeee.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
To be fair, your notes suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
But I'll add it.
EDIT: 19 people? Really? I'm unsure if it's worthy of the opening post.
He made top8 !! :{
Is it possible for the links below to be used as reference in place of deckcheck.net? (since this site closed down)
http://www.deckcheck.org/
http://www.deckcheck.de/
The other one was like 40 or 50Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Q: "I think we should play card X in this deck"Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
A: "Play 4. No one's stopping you"
If you don't respect other players, don't react to their posts plz. I bet you have a least 10 pro tour points, created this deck yourself and personally liberated Europe from Nazi occupation. You're right, I suck at magic.
Btw, nice website, Bryant.
Orim's Chant and Silence have been discussed numerous times in this thread. I simply saved you the time of people giving you responses. Since you don't like mine, I'll elaborate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diprivan
You can do this:
1.) Play a 2-2 split of Orim's Chant and Silence because you fear Extirpate that much or Meddling Mage is actually played in your meta. I can't even think when I'd want to Infernal Tutor for either card unless I couldn't get their with EtW unless I did so.
2.) Play a 3-1 split of Orim's Chant and Silence because the fourth protection spell doesn't really matter. It's boarded out often.
3.) Play a 3-1 or the fullset of Silence because you're on a budget.
OR
Play a 4/3 split of Duress and Thoughtseize.
OR
Play a 4/3 split of Xantid Swarm and Duress/Thoughtseize.
tldr;
It doesn't hurt to read the thread. Which protection spells to use is mentioned in several places.