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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jason
Someone needs to tell Nicol Bolas to go down to $12 so I can get one for EDH/Commander!
You get your wish in a few months as he's getting reprinted in the Ajani vs Nicol Bolas duel deck.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jason
Someone needs to tell Nicol Bolas to go down to $12 so I can get one for EDH/Commander!
$14 is alot closer to $12 than $50.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Seems like the insane growth reached its threshold for now - SCG currently has 45 NM FoW's available for $90, T&T has also quite a few Wastelands and FoW's available.
Also, T&T lowered their buy price for NM Wastelands to $54 (from $60) - but seems like they increased their buy price for Force of Will to $65.
I guess lots of cards came out of hoarder's closets and basements (lured by big prices), and hopefully ended in hands of Legacy players.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Folks, I don't know if this topic has been discussed, but I wonder what the market model for these cards really looks like. In other words, bubbles happen when people start talking exactly the way I read you people talking. Do Magic cards follow the same market forces that real estate, gold, stocks, currency, and everything else do? I don't expect that anyone can answer that question definitively. I am not a financial expert, but I don't recall bonafide good cards like dual lands ever even dipping much in value. I have to wonder if the fact that you can actually use cards - that is, that they have some sort of intrinsic value - makes a difference here.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Well as long as certain cards can be played the prices arent dropping anymore. Look at Tarmogoyf, its price has lowered a little but its still the most expensive creature and he can only be played in legacy now.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I think the run on Wastelands and Force of Wills has happened because of speculation: I better get some before they go up, in case I'll ever need them. I think that's what the main problem is, not that suddenly people ACTUALLY need them.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
I think the run on Wastelands and Force of Wills has happened because of speculation: I better get some before they go up, in case I'll ever need them. I think that's what the main problem is, not that suddenly people ACTUALLY need them.
-Matt
yeah, who'd need wasteland, duals, FOW or tarmo, playing legacy
which decks in this format really run them?
&_&
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Double sarcasm is half the fun
Makes frog sad ....
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
honestly, I find it more baffling that Force of Will has NOT been a $100 card for a long time.
Really, it's closest comparison is Mana Drain... both being uncommon counter's that are "good."
Drain goes in *some* Vintage decks, mostly fringe ones. $90 is pretty common for an Italian one on ebay, and drain has only gotten better since wizards dropped mana burn... still, it's a card that remains basically unusable, even for vintage players.
Force of will goes in...what... every deck that runs blue in legacy and almost every non-dredge non-stax deck in vintage? I mean really... it is one of the best cards ever printed.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leegoo
honestly, I find it more baffling that Force of Will has NOT been a $100 card for a long time.
Really, it's closest comparison is Mana Drain... both being uncommon counter's that are "good."
Drain goes in *some* Vintage decks, mostly fringe ones. $90 is pretty common for an Italian one on ebay, and drain has only gotten better since wizards dropped mana burn... still, it's a card that remains basically unusable, even for vintage players.
Force of will goes in...what... every deck that runs blue in legacy and almost every non-dredge non-stax deck in vintage? I mean really... it is one of the best cards ever printed.
Unusable in Vintage???? It's a pillar of the format. Drains vs Rits vs Rods vs Shops vs Bazaars. That's Vintage.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doomsday
Unusable in Vintage???? It's a pillar of the format. Drains vs Rits vs Rods vs Shops vs Bazaars. That's Vintage.
Drain gets displaced by Gush right now. Why do you need a counterspell to ramp up your mana when your engine is essentially free?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
majikal
Drain gets displaced by Gush right now. Why do you need a counterspell to ramp up your mana when your engine is essentially free?
Still a pillar for non gush, control decks.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Sadly Spell Pierce is slowly nudging Drains out of the control pillar. As long as the format has a significant MUD dominance, Drains is the subpar counter these days. Quoting someone on TMD "Using Drains to fight Workshop is like using Exclude to fight Bob".
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Agreed. Most everyone in my vintage meta has moved on from drains to pierce, or even mindbreak trap in some cases. I mean, it's hard to justify it in many decks that it would *seem* good in. I guess Tezz and Oath still run it as a 2-4 of sometimes... and remora (if you consider that a deck still)
I really think drain wouldn't be a terrible option to "test" unbanning in legacy. Looks like it could really shine there. Or it could be (too) stupid good... but it seems more on the Legacy power level
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leegoo
Agreed. Most everyone in my vintage meta has moved on from drains to pierce, or even mindbreak trap in some cases. I mean, it's hard to justify it in many decks that it would *seem* good in. I guess Tezz and Oath still run it as a 2-4 of sometimes... and remora (if you consider that a deck still)
I really think drain wouldn't be a terrible option to "test" unbanning in legacy. Looks like it could really shine there. Or it could be (too) stupid good... but it seems more on the Legacy power level
In B4 Z0mG u canz play JTMS on TuRn 3 w/ Spel1 Peirce backup!1!!11!!!
In all seriousness, Drain is probably what's needed for pure control to become a pillar of the format again, but I don't think it's going to happen. My wallet would also HATE if it did happen lol. Imagine the prices of that card after the unban...it would make Candelabra seem like a budget card.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Not going to happen. Power level still exceeds that of Legacy. It's also a highly obnoxious card in the format if it's ever unbanned. Can you imagine every deck playing blue because they fear getting drained? At least I would be playing blue because I don't want my threats getting drained into a free Jace TMS.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
totally agree the price hike would be enormous immediately following.
I question whether Drain, Earthcraft, Mind Twist, or Wheel of Fortune are all THAT broken. Very good, yes, but those cards in general don't hold the same power level as things like Academy, DTutor, Time Vault, etc.
Drain - would make control in legacy better without making it insane.
Earthcraft - you get what... a turn 2 kill combo deck with a god hand that requires you to attack? Maybe a different build of enchantress? Doesn't seem much more broken than Belcher/ANT/etc in the land of combo.
Mind Twist - Is there a deck that can run this? Would one appear? I just don't know... getting twisted for 4-5 on turn 1 seems like it may be too good, but I'm not sold that it is.
Wheel of Fortune - Really... I don't know... it's obviously better than Diminishing Returns, but that see's play as a 1 of in TES and that's it...
Some of the other's are questionable, but I don't know how you'd be able to tell if they would be forgotten or format warping. I do think we should keep Jar on the banned list though :)
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
If you're calling mana drain fringe playable, I'm surprised you have the cognitive ability to type on these boards.
There are many, many Gush lists that run drain, as well as all of the Tezzeret variants (thoughtcasts, Dark confidants, night's whisper)
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I have no idea what you're talking about leego, but I don't think it's Vintage. Below are the 15 most used Vintage cards in top 8 decks this past month, from Morphling.de (check out number 3)
March 2011 Top 15
Vintage (15 events)
1. Force of Will (312)
2. Underground Sea (189)
3. Mana Drain (157)
4. Wasteland (147)
5. Polluted Delta (123)
6. Hurkyl's Recall (116)
7. Leyline of the Void (112)
8. Scalding Tarn (109)
9. Pithing Needle (102)
10. Black Lotus (98)
11. Misty Rainforest (97)
12. Mox Emerald (96)
13. Mox Sapphire (95)
14. Mox Pearl (94)
15. Nature's Claim (94)
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I'd love to play my Drains in legacy! Please, please, please unban Mana Drain! It would jack up the price of Drains so much that maybe people would stop playing as much blue (because they couldn't afford the "real Counterspell"), driving the price of Force of Will down.
