Ah, thx. You remind me of the reason why I really chose the Mortify... :tongue:
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Ah, thx. You remind me of the reason why I really chose the Mortify... :tongue:
This is my version of deadguy:
http://www.deckcheck.net/stats.php?id=59487&saved=true
creature [16]
4 Dark Confidant
3 Hypnotic Specter
3 Jötun Grunt
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Tombstalker
instant [8]
4 Dark Ritual
4 Swords to Plowshares
sorcery [16]
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate
land [20]
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
4 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
sideboard[15]
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Engineered Plague
3 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Seal of Cleansing
Classic non-creature base, Imo a solid manabase und 3 Stalker to win the game!
Has anyone seen results with Nyxathid? There are quite a few posts referring to him, but no one has said whether he worked out or not.
Also, I don't have any Bobs so I've been running a straight substitution with Phyrexian Arenas in his place. I like this for several reasons:
First, although Bob is potential damage, there is a lot more creature removal out there than enchantment hate. I'm not saying there aren't answers to Arena, but they are far more limited, and thus more valuable, to your opponent.
Secondly, with finishers like Tombstalker and Exalted Angel being touted in this deck, Bob's drawback may be a real concern. Especially against burn or fast decks like Thresh, eating 8 damage from a top-decked Tombstalker is not a play I feel like making more than once.
Also, the difference in a guaranteed value on the life I lose per turn is worth the extra one mana to me. This may just be a personal style choice, but I'll always take the sure thing over the questionable potential game breaker. While Bob is a great card, I feel like people defend him a lot because of his perceived value. He fits in the deck, don't get me wrong, but I think Arena may be a better call here.
One point that I don't think gets a lot of credit is that fact that you don't have to reveal the card you draw with Arena. This is a huge deal, IMO, because your opponent has no idea what cards you're holding. Even if they know the deck and the cardlist, with Bob, there are no surprises. With Arena, you're gaining an incremental piece of strategic advantage and that's a win in my book.
So, I'm still playtesting both, looking to make a firm decision on which I like better. I mean, double Bob usually means GG, but a first turn Dark Rit. into Arena is pretty amazing too.
The Bob can hit, its one mana cheaper and there's no double black mana needed.
Another interesting version is Bob+Divining Top when your playing cards like Exalted or Tombstalker. My Version uses no Tombstalker, but 4 Dark Confidant.
Maybe you should try it the other way: 4 Tombstalker, 4 Arena, maybe in combination with Night's Whisper. Sounds good but the I think all the Pro Players know, why they play the Confidant.
On Arena (again, as this has already been discussed):
Double black is not an issue in a deck with cards like Hymn, Sinkhole, Shade, Hyppie, etc. And the one mana is also not an issue, as you'd only play Confidant when he has a chance to survive anyway, not asap. As far as it's status as a beater, 2/1 isn't really much of a threat, and the fact that it's a creature means it's a lot easier to remove than Arena - which means you won't be able to draw as much off it as you would Arena (and that's what it is in the deck for, right?).
It's simple: if you can make the deck work with Confidant (ie no spells over 3cc, even though those already suck to flip), then the fact that it pulls double duty (draw and beats) makes it more attractive than Arena.
BUT if you'd want to run the bigger, more explosive cards (Tombstalker, Exalted Angel, Shriekmaw) OR if you want a more consistent source of draw, then run Arena.
And, after running this deck with either SDT+Bob or Arena (my version has Tombstalker and sometimes Shriekmaw), I find that Arena is better simply because you don't need two cards to make it work.
well i will take my deck to a local legacy event this saturday. normally there are around 14 - 20 players. so i hope that will be a good testing ground for nyxathid.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...postcount=1624 this is my deck. will run the grunts main cause i expect lots of graveyard abusing decks. i will also add 3 warmth to the sideboard cause there is always that burn deck that i am always paired against :D
that leaves me with 4 more sideboard options. peerhaps i should take a big beater for decks that run too much draw ? perhaps 2 or 3 nantuko shades and 1 or 2 tombstalkers ? perhaps some mass removal like wrath of god or damnation ?
Wrath/Damnation seems good as an uncounterbalanceable answer to Thresh creature swarms...Tombstalker doesn't do enough to stop those. I say, go Damnation. Else, side in Exalted Angels. Those are always amazing.
Beating decks with a lot of draw shouldnt be an issue by itself - but of course they are better of against you than others. Consider some Leylines or the like for Dredge and Loam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaver027
I'm looking forward to hearing how Nyx performs.
@Reaver027:
I'm very curious to see your results with Nyxathid as you run 4 additional discard spells in your build (verdicts). I like to have some flying creatures so I suggest to test Tombstalker+SDT or Exalted Angel (maybe in sb for your red matchups).
About Damnation: It dodges CB but it also kills your army. I was using Perishes but now with the raise of Trygon Predator/Pancakes in Treshes it is so much harder to avoid CB trap. If it suits your game plan than play Damnation :)
Random idea: When I saw that Dreadstill is playing Crucible for mid/late game I started to play 1x mb + 1xsb myself and I can say its very useful. Also it allow me to play some 'fetch-ritual-crucible' hands. It's hard to find slot for Crucible but it gives me nice pressure.
so i am back. i went 2-2-1... at least one loss was unlucky cause i was stuck on 2 lands in game 3 with a god hand and was just not able to stop the elves player to pump out his creatures due to lack of mana. otherwise i could have won that match i belive. the draw was vs a white/black aggro deck and i didnt win that cause game one i didt draw any creatures and went out of time in game 3 with his hand already gone after 3 turns.
the other loss was vs a gwu counter top deck. first game took us 30 min with advantage shifting back and forth. got himd own to 6 live but then he was able to recure engeneered explosives so many times i had no chance any more.
game 2 went quick and swft in his favour.
but i think the most you are interested in is nyxathid. i only had 2 to play with so i didnt draw him as much as i would like for a test. but when my discard plan worked nyxathid was awesome. most of the time he was a 5/5 sometimes a 4/4 or 6/6. never a 7/7 tho. but a 5/5 for 3 is great. if he had some kind of evasion i would rate him one of the best creatures ever. but without he is just a very effective beater. he won me several games.
mvps of my deck were nyxathid, grunt, hymn and verdict. suprisingly thoughtseze was the weakest card in my deck. not cause of the life lost but it just felt weak compared to hymn or verdict. perhaps i need to finde something new there.
the biggets problem this deck got is recurring removal and swarms of creatures on teh other side of the table. so yeah this deck needs mass removal in the board.
i can only tell you to test nyxathid yourself. i liked him a lot and will continue to play it over shade.
Hmm, is that so?
I personally H-A-T-E Nyxathid (it's the opposite of a pet card for me). The reason why I find Nyxathid so bad is that if the opponent has no disruption in hand at all, they'll just draw him down to a 0/0. It's possible. No matter how much discard you run, it'll never get very big. Maybe against an unsuspecting opponent. But if you ever do get him really big, that also goes without saying that the opponent can't respond to him. This means that you could be running anything and it could act as a 'Nyxathid'. I find that when someone plays a nyxathid against me he usually is just dazed or (if I'm playing pox) killed asap. Yes, he is a must-answer threat but only because he CAN get big, not necessarily will.
Oh, for thoughtseize, try duress. Perhaps you just got really lucky with verdict or played someone who didn't know how to properly deal with it. 1st turn duress KILLS combo like no tomorrow. It could've been that you played no combo. But I think that your counter-top deck you speak of is Threshold.
Big edit to make it more readable:
The Counter Top deck i played had no ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh cards at all (and i dont count Goyf as one).
It seemed nearly every deck i faced was playing Life from the Loam. Very annoying card to play against. Especially if the opponent got a Wasteland in his graveyard.
The thing with Nyxathid is that you should only play him after you disrupted your opponent.
That will force him to play creatures he draws to block Nyxathid. You do not play him when your opponent has 4 or more cards in his hand.
With all the discard in your deck you can bring your opponent down to 2 cards fast. That will ensure thet Nyxathid will always be a big threat.
Nyxathid is "harder" to handle than Goyf ("graveyard hate" and "kill target non black creature" will not hurt Nyxathid).
Let them draw cards and keep them in hand if they want to make Nyxathid weaker. While they do that you can beat them down with Nyxathid or Grunt. Or you could play more discard.
So in conclusion Nyxathid worked freat for me yesterday. When my discard plan worked out he was always a big threat.
He won me serveral games and i will continue to playtest him.
On Verdict: I gained a total of 12 life over 5 matches. Half of that was me targeting myself and discarding 2 lands once. I played Verdict about 10 or more times in these 5 matches.
On Thoughtseize: Yes that might be the reason. I did not face a single Combo deck this time.
Start using proper punctuation and spelling or get out of this site. Consider yourself watched. - Nihil Credo
All edits made by a Moderator are still in. I hope this post is easier to read now..
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowvamp
This all seems like faulty reasoning to me. Draw him down to a 0/0? So while you beat with a 5/5, then 4/4, then 3/3, then 2/2, then 1/1, and they are playing no spells, no lands, etc, how do you not win?
No matter how much discard you run he never gets big? How is he small if you Duress then Hymn? Assuming, of course, your opponent plays lands and plans to try winning at some point. Otherwise, again, they are not playing anything so they are in bad shape anyway.
He gets Dazed? Then why would you walk right into a Daze? Smart players see blue mana and plan for Daze. That's just stupid.
Come on now, you are being far too hasty with him. He is a huge beatstick that they have to answer. If they don't remove him, either they take a savage beating trying to find an answer, or they waste turn after turn trying to fill their hand.
one of the big downside of this creature is that, with brainstorm in every competitive blue deck, it can be relatively easy to kill him juste by drawing card.
But yeah, still have to test this guy.
Ahoi,
I don't think that this issue with brainstorm could happen, because the draw and put back of Brainstorm is part of one effect.
State based effects wouldn't be checked as long as the effect of brainstorm isn't handled completly.
regards
TimeTwister
Cedric Phillips changed sb (-4 Infest, +4 E. Plague) from his 7th finish on Meandeck Open, gave his decklist to Brian Kowal and we can see Deadguy in top8 of GP (i cant see how this deck can be called Eva Green but whatever). I was looking to see Kowal vs Nassif battle but Brian forgot to flip card from Conficant :/
EDIT: Hehe, they changed the name of Kowal's deck on deckcheck from Eva Green to Dead Eva :D
I see sinkholes, wastelands, and vindicates, but I don't see Magus of the Tabernacle. Why don't I see MotT? He's got a big butt for bounce goblins into the GY, his cost is mostly colorless, and it's not like your deck runs so many creatures as to be inhibited by his ability either.
Mostly just curious,
-Mono
I played yesterday a Legacy Side Event at the Grand Prix ind Hannover/Germany with my Deadguy Ale (Discard: 4x Duress, 4x Hymn).
When I remember all the game situations, I must say, that Nyxathid is absolutley unuseble. My Shades rocked, where a Nyxathid would have been 1/2 or 2/2.
A friend of mine played a variant of Deadguy Ale at a local tournament about a month ago and did very well: 55 players, he split the finals.
Since Landstill and Merfolk were rampant, he opted to play Vials and a more aggro build. He also made some good meta calls (for example, Unicorn and Kami, as well as Epochrasite). Here's the list. I realize it's über-aggro, but anyhow don't dismiss it on that account... the deck is pretty impressive IMO (since it looks like a pile but does well); I've seen it rip through Threshold, Landstill and Merfolk (at the aformentioned tournament and at other tournaments also).
Creatures (28)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Epochrasite (A recurring 4/4 is annoying for control; it's also good with Vial)
4 Jötun Grunt
4 Serra Avenger (Was MVP all day; especially post board when Jitte was sided-in; maybe Jitte should be MD - taking out the CScrolls for it)
4 Mother of Runes
1 Kami of Ancient Law (CB, Standstill, Humility, Deeds, etc.; especially good since you can Vial them on the board)
2 Ronom Unicorn
Acceleration (4)
4 Aether Vial
Removal (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares
Mana Denial (4)
4 Sinkhole
Other (5)
3 Pithing Needle (Top, EE, Shackles, Deeds, etc.)
2 Cursed Scroll (Should be Jitte IMO)
Mana (20)
2 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scrubland
SB (15)
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Disenchant
After much playtesting I've found this list to be the most reliable and resilient...
4 scrubland
2 bloodstained mire
2 polluted delta
2 windswept heath
2 Godless Shrine
4 swamp
2 plains
4 wasteland
Disruption
4 Thoughtseize
4 hymn to tourach
4 sinkhole
4 vindicate
4 swords to plowshares
Misc.
4 dark ritual
4 Phyrexian Arena
Creatures
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Serra Avenger
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Tombstalker
(NO SB in our meta)
Godless Shrine really stabilizes the colored mana of an otherwise very demanding deck (even as just a 2 of.) With this stability the deck is able to run Finks to offset the lifeloss, and Avenger (which is just gorgeous in this deck as the first few turns are going to be spent on disruption anyways.)
I don't run Confidant because he's too fragile to ever swing with, the life loss is not fun, and I don't have room to play SDT in order to ensure safe draws every turn. Arena on the other hand is easy to protect with TS and LD, and the lifeloss is never too much for me to out race with my beaters.
-Mono