[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

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Originally Posted by AcidFiend

Surprised no-one has posted this - Christopher Lou just took 1st place (tho it was split) in the SCG Legacy Open with this deck:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=30740

Nice one!! It was only time before this meta-deck had another top placing. Guessing he didn't run into any combo decks? Interesting choices are the Chrome Mox, 2 x Sigil as the only win condition and a solitary ET. I'd like to read a tourney report of this.

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Nice to know that enchantress made a so good result! :smile:

The 2x sygils are justified, to me, by the fact that he runs so much acceleration: 2 mox 4growth 4sprawl, for a total of ten. In this deck sygil seems not only a way to close a game already won, like in several enchantress builds, but an alternative to confinement lock to actually find a path for victory.

The single tutor is normal. several players go for it.

Personally I don't like the moxes, the loss of a card is too crucial for this deck to me. But I agree that the key to win the blue matchups is a tempo boost. Because of this, my choice is running 4x Carpet of Flowers post-side.

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Originally Posted by ssw

Hypothetical situation to those advocating against moat. Let's say you're on the play against Goblins or Merfolk, and you see:

Land
Land
Land
Sprawl
Presence
Sterling Grove
Sigil

Let's say you're pretty confident they can goldfish you by their 4th attack phase. What's your line of play?

I would argue this hand is very keepable if you're playing moat, and is pretty sketchy if you're not. Do you just ship hands that can't set up 2 enchantress effects + confinement by turn 4, or are missing elephant grass? With all of the builds I've iterated through (8 enchantress effects, 3-4 confinement, 4-6 tutor effects), I've always found that a significant proportion of my opening hands just don't lend themselves well to setting up 2x enchantress + confinement. You need the Moat-crutch in these situations.

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This is kind of the circular nature of the big expensive defensive enchantments like Moat and Sigil.

You wouldn't really have many problems setting up and substaining a Confinement if you ran cheaper enchantments.

For the record, you should never start with Grove against aggro. The correct play is

Turn 1 Sprawl
Turn 2 Presence
Turn 3 as many enchantments as you can play, dig for something to stall
Turn 4 Blow up Grove if needed, set up Confinement


Congrats to Christopher Lou, but I dislike his list.

Has anyone tested Chrome Mox vs. Lotus Petal vs. Elvish Spirit Guide? Seems like they all have their pros and cons.

To me ESG just seems a bit worse than Lotus Petal, although the ability to trick the opponent to play Daze is relevant. The 2/2 body in itself is decent enough, but I can't see the deck wanting to spend mana to play it when it could have been useful except when it's top-decked.

Lotus Petal on the other hand can help pay for turn one Runed Halo, which sounds decent against ANT, Dredge and other decks running Thoughtseize. It can also help getting Blood Moon down without fetching duals / setting Utopia Sprawl to red, if you run that. I guess the ability to play Words of War is less relevant, as you usually don't want to play that on an undeveloped board anyway.

Chrome Mox has some of the same colour restrictions as ESG. The card-disadvantage is a major drawback in the early turns while we try to develop our board. Is it worth it to get a permanent mana source rather than a single injection of mana?


Ultimately we need to decide whether the acceleration is needed game one, and if it's needed against other decks than blue decks games two and three, where Carpet of Flowers is just better.

I just played a few (say 6-7) games with 4x Carpet of Flowers in the board against all kinds of blue tempo decks and have to say I really like them so far. It's such a HUGE tempo boost! I also returned to two Runed Halo maindeck and NO(!) Savannah at all. With 4 Windswept Heath and 4 Utopia Sprawl along with some plains (depending on how W-heavy your built is) reducing the amount of opening hands with Savannah (which I hate!) to zero is fine for me. By now, this never caused any color issues for me.

Oh, and I really dislike those Chrome Moxes. Tried them from time to time, but they just don't do it for me. On the draw they still dont make your Enchantress Daze-proof and well..I'd much rather have Carpet of Flowers I guess.

With the Confinement lock, is it possible to use Luminarch Ascension as a back-up win condition?

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Originally Posted by AcidFiend

Guessing he didn't run into any combo decks?

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There was quite a bit of combo at the tournament, but not much of it had success. Lou ran into a bunch of Bant decks at the end of the day (some with CB Top, some without). I think he played like four or five Bant decks in a row (including the round he intentionally drew and the quarterfinals of the top eight).

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Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges

This is kind of the circular nature of the big expensive defensive enchantments like Moat and Sigil.

You wouldn't really have many problems setting up and substaining a Confinement if you ran cheaper enchantments.

For the record, you should never start with Grove against aggro. The correct play is

Turn 1 Sprawl
Turn 2 Presence
Turn 3 as many enchantments as you can play, dig for something to stall
Turn 4 Blow up Grove if needed, set up Confinement


Congrats to Christopher Lou, but I dislike his list.

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Let's say it wasn't a sigil, it was something like a Replenish or another essential blank in this situation.

By turn 3 you have 4 mana available barring you drew into a Sanctum. Before playing any spells on turn 3 you've seen 2 more cards. Are you really confident you can naturally dig into something to stall this situation, regardless of your build?

I agree with you that the toolbox builds are generally worse than the streamlined builds. I think moat and win conditions are exceptions to this rule.

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

With the Confinement lock, is it possible to use Luminarch Ascension as a back-up win condition?

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Why use Ascension when you can run Sigil which kills MUCH faster?

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Why use Ascension when you can run Sigil which kills MUCH faster?

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Just wondering... I guess run 2 Sigils instead of 1

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Originally Posted by ssw

Let's say it wasn't a sigil, it was something like a Replenish or another essential blank in this situation.

By turn 3 you have 4 mana available barring you drew into a Sanctum. Before playing any spells on turn 3 you've seen 2 more cards. Are you really confident you can naturally dig into something to stall this situation, regardless of your build?

I agree with you that the toolbox builds are generally worse than the streamlined builds. I think moat and win conditions are exceptions to this rule.

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Or Exploration. I also run ESG. Turn 4 you can usually set up Confinement or at least double Grass, which should buy you time. With a much lower curve and Ground Seals for extra dig, I feel pretty good about turn 4, assuming you resolve a turn 2 enchantress.

I've also tried Chrome Mox a number of times and don't like it either. Lately I have been running ESG which has been decent. The body on ESG is almost never relevant, but the ability to ramp your engine/plow through Daze definitely is. Not sure if I like 3 or 4 though. Lotus Petal is potentially better as someone mentioned if you're running multiple Runed Halos, I just haven't tested it yet.

Probably the worst thing about Lou's result is the fact more people are aware of the deck! Though decks that can board K. Grip probably already do so, so I doubt we'll see dedicated SB hate just yet. God forbid we have to think about the mirror soon! :tongue:

Edit: Re Carpet of Flowers - this looks great, but I'm not sure theres SB room for it, especially considering most SB's already include at least 4 blue-dedicated spots. You could always switch Wild Growth for CoF MD if you know a bunch of Blue decks have turned up.. that would be hot.

Chrome Mox

Cons: Card disadvantage; this can be especially dangerous against aggro decks, since it can prevent you from getting that early Confinement lock.

Pros: Sticks around.

Lotus Petal

Cons: Potentially gives Tarmogoyf +1, one shot only.

Pros: Provides any color.

ESG

Cons: Only green, one shot only.

Pros: Fights Daze, can provide a chumb blocker in a pinch.



I also dislike Chrome Mox, since you're mulliganing a lot already with this deck, the -1 CA can be huge. Lotus Petal is worth it if you're running a lot of white or a tertiary color beyond WoWhatever, but generally ESG is better, since it both fights Daze, and doesn't boost Goyf.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

I just played a few (say 6-7) games with 4x Carpet of Flowers in the board against all kinds of blue tempo decks and have to say I really like them so far. It's such a HUGE tempo boost! .

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First to have suggested it :cool: well done!

@acid fiend:

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Edit: Re Carpet of Flowers - this looks great, but I'm not sure theres SB room for it, especially considering most SB's already include at least 4 blue-dedicated spots. You could always switch Wild Growth for CoF MD if you know a bunch of Blue decks have turned up.. that would be hot.

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Carpet of Flowers is the thing I want most against blue tempo, much more than choke, as I sustained one page ago, as it's too slow to matter. my general rule is: who cares how many good three-drops I run if I don't have time to cast them!

-my side for reference:
4 warmth
4 carpet of flowers
2 seal of primordium
2 wheel of sun and moon
2 karmic justice
1 replenish

Note that I already play maindeck blue hate: 2x city of solitude and 2x In the eye of chaos (good for krosan grip and ad nauseam too, for instance).

What is the general consensus concerning Runed Halo vs. Oblivion Ring?

On Christopher Lou's winning deck, he ran 2 Runed Halos and a single Oblivion Ring. Is that actually the ideal number or should we run more O-rings?

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Originally Posted by AcidFiend

God forbid we have to think about the mirror soon! :tongue:

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Encounterted the mirror quite a lot during the last days of MWS. Like in most of the games it came down to decking and everytime the person to have less Enchantress effects (usually 1 or 2) on the board won. It was all about having TWO sterling grove (VERY important) on the board and then hiding behind confinement while being able to recurr it with Replenish without triggering any Enchantress to avoid drawing cards. Sounds silly, I know but as Enchantress usually only runs spot removal...oh, of course lists with Words of War usually just win against those without.

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

What is the general consensus concerning Runed Halo vs. Oblivion Ring?

On Christopher Lou's winning deck, he ran 2 Runed Halos and a single Oblivion Ring. Is that actually the ideal number or should we run more O-rings?

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I think Halo is better if you're expecting lots of combo, isn't it? O-rings are an even more generic answer, but not really useful against combo.

What about the number of Confinements? I don't feel comfortable running less than 3, but I've seen too many lists running only 2 so I guess it should be enough. Is it really?

The more Runed Halo/Moat you run the less Confinements you might be running, I guess. Especially since against a lot of decks Runed Halo on Tarmogoyf is essentially a Confinement.

Against the mirror your best bet is to use Sigil, amp up to a lethal amount of Angels, then use something like tranquility and alpha strike for the win.

Show me one Enchantress list that runs Tranqulity and I will kiss your feet.
/edit: or "something like Tranqulity" for that matter.

I agree that this seems like a viable strat but I guess a lot of work needs to be done until people start packing anything for the mirror. I'm tempted to use Aura of Silence in the next tournament in my sideboard. But for now...

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Show me one Enchantress list that runs Tranqulity and I will kiss your feet.
/edit: or "something like Tranqulity" for that matter.

I agree that this seems like a viable strat but I guess a lot of work needs to be done until people start packing anything for the mirror. I'm tempted to use Aura of Silence in the next tournament in my sideboard. But for now...

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I was screwed by a player at the GP who in a mirror match dropped Dovescape while I did not have confinement and he did.