[DTB] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

@Tacosnape,

I wouldn't say the other drops are strictly better, they are just harder to hardcast. Why I would put down a 2 mana dude, when i could put a 3, 4 or 5 mana dude?

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That's sort of what I meant. Better to drop off of a Lackey.

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Your decklist, I like it. Preety Straightfoward.
I would consider fit a Wort in, but i can't really tell how effective it is, since im a monoR player. I would also consider gempalm/Weirding as 3/3, but thats because the number of goblins aroud here is quite high.
How do you side against a mirror match? - 4Weirdings , +2 Gempalm, +2 Cabal?

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First off, Wort sucks. Ringleader is card advantage now, and Siege-Gangs just win. Wort-recursion locks are weak and require the thing live.

In Goblin mirrors, yeah, you pretty much called it. The extra two Gempalms go a long way. I'll often board in Thoughtseize over Therapy game 2 until I know what they're boarding in against me, and Thoughtseize taking Pyrokinesis can be pretty huge. I'm starting to experiment with boarding out Lackey when on the draw for additional discard, but that's untested as of yet so don't quote me on that.

I figured cabal therapy, since toughtseiz costs you 2 life, what kind of sucks when racing goblins, and therapy can be devastating, since they reveal ringleader and matron draws.

I still think wort + Gempalme can be awesome. Maybe qhen I get myself 2 sets of fetchs and 1 set of duals, i'll see i'm wrong.


Have anyone tested Meekstone? I have 3 in my SB, and I Think is awesome!
it win all my matches against Stiflenought and ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh (u just need to block some goyfs, since they're only going to attack once with eache creature they own).
Agaist Fearie Stompy and Dragon Stompy, they've proven themselves really worthy too.

Wort is incredible, especially when coupled with incinerators which turn cardadvantage into holy shit cardadvantage.
If Wort doesn't get handled she'll win straight away most of the time, she's also got a pretty sizeable body at 3/3 which makes her a nice beater coupled with her built-in fear.

I'm also wondering about the reason for not splashing green, since it's such a small investment in your manabase for such a huge payoff :)

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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm

Wort is incredible, especially when coupled with incinerators which turn cardadvantage into holy shit cardadvantage.
If Wort doesn't get handled she'll win straight away most of the time, she's also got a pretty sizeable body at 3/3 which makes her a nice beater coupled with her built-in fear.

I'm also wondering about the reason for not splashing green, since it's such a small investment in your manabase for such a huge payoff :)

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You know what else causes insane card advantage? Goblin Ringleader. Neat part is, he doesn't require staying alive or having another card to do it.

You know what else wins most of the time if it doesn't get handled? Siege-Gang Commander. And it's harder to handle than Wort.

I can't really think of any but a few specialized situations where I'd ever want to play Wort over another Ringleader or another Siege-Gang. And I don't have a slot for it beyond my 4/4 setup, and most people who run Wort don't even run 3 Siege-Gangs. Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt stop Wort. Either of these on Ringleader and you still got your 2-3 cards out of the deal. Either of these on Siege-Gang and you still have three Goblins in play (All of which play awesome with the Piledrivers people keep wanting to cut.)

Wort is the epitome of the danger of cool things.

As for the Green thing, it's probably an option. But I'd only want one maindecked green card (A Tin-Street) and then the Grips (Or Tranquility for Plague/Assault/Enchantress) in board. I'd have no other reason for green, and I like having a few basic lands in a pinch.

What's the better SB card for grave hate for this deck? Most of the time, mulling into Leyline isn't really needed (we already have a good game against Ichorid, and we now have Weirdings for janky Reanimator). I've been thinking about it recently, and it seems that Tormod's Crypt does just fine (or even better) than Leyline.

But actually, the real reason is that I'm thinking of selling off my Leylines and getting the cheaper Tormod's Crypts. I kind of need cash, but I don't want my deck to suffer from it.

Anyway, thoughts?

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Originally Posted by kicks_422

What's the better SB card for grave hate for this deck? Most of the time, mulling into Leyline isn't really needed (we already have a good game against Ichorid, and we now have Weirdings for janky Reanimator). I've been thinking about it recently, and it seems that Tormod's Crypt does just fine (or even better) than Leyline.

But actually, the real reason is that I'm thinking of selling off my Leylines and getting the cheaper Tormod's Crypts. I kind of need cash, but I don't want my deck to suffer from it.

Anyway, thoughts?

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You're probably fine with either one. Crypt has advantages. So does Leyline. Here are the reasons I run Leyline over Crypt.

1. Leyline is stronger against any graveyard-based combo.
2. Excluding versus Confidant builds, Leyline is better than Mogg Fanatic (Or the two Gempalms against Pyroclasm-boarding builds) or any other card in my sideboard against Threshold.
3. Leyline is way, way, way better against Aggro Loam. It might be easier to remove via Burning Wish, but it'll shut off Loam and make Crusher and Terravore overpriced weaklings. And it shrinks Tarmogoyf more effectively. I'll take any card that nulls their engine and hurts all of their threats simultaneously. It's even good topdecked midgame if they blow up your first one.

Arguments for Crypt?

1. Crypt is always free off the top, and Goblins gets enough draws in a game to make this relevant.
2. Crypt is better against decks that pack natural artifact and enchantment removal (Wish for removal, Vindicate, Deed, etc) because you'll get the shot off with it whereas Leyline's a sitting duck.

What about the new artifact from ALA? Relic of Progenitous, i think.

At least in my expirience, it's hard to face a situation, where u have to topdeck a grave hate card, play it and use without using mana, otherwise you lose the game. You should have enough time and mana, to both drop it, and use it. Thus, the cantrip is awesome. People should give it a try.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

What about the new artifact from ALA? Relic of Progenitous, i think.

At least in my expirience, it's hard to face a situation, where u have to topdeck a grave hate card, play it and use without using mana, otherwise you lose the game. You should have enough time and mana, to both drop it, and use it. Thus, the cantrip is awesome. People should give it a try.

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It might be an option, actually. Goblins could be the right deck for it. Relic is way worse than the other two against Ichorid, but we need less help against Ichorid than most decks. Relic is strong against Threshold and anything packing a Goyf, and might be pretty solid against Aggro Loam if it doesn't get Chaliced (Tin-Street Hooligan's looking better by the minute.)

What could make Relic neat is that the cantrip effect could make it worth playing against decks where you can hurt them by stopping their graveyard, but it's not worth spending a card to do it. Survival's a classic example. Boarding in Crypt and Leyline against Survival typically isn't worthwhile in my experience, but Relic might be. I'll test it when I get some time.

What do you guys think would be the best awnser to Ad Nausea Tendrils deck? Our bests weapons agains it are wastelands, ports, discards (if one have on SB), and inflicting a really large amount of dmg early on, right? I saw it going off last night, there were absolutly nothing I cound do...

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

What do you guys think would be the best awnser to Ad Nausea Tendrils deck? Our bests weapons agains it are wastelands, ports, discards (if one have on SB), and inflicting a really large amount of dmg early on, right? I saw it going off last night, there were absolutly nothing I cound do...

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"Don't run Goblins," would be the obvious answer here.:cool:

But yeah, you're pretty much on. Storm Combo has always been and will always be Goblins' worst matchup. The bright side is that Goblins these days actually has a fair match against a lot of other combo.

Hello, first time poster long time reader. I need some help on my goblin sleigh match up. Its the only deck that I lose constantly to in my meta. I have thresh (UGb), sneak, stax, fish, scepter, WB, and goblins (tons of goblins).

My deck is as such

Land 21
2 Badlands
4 Bloodstain Mire
4 Mountain
3 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

4 Fanatic
4 Lackey
4 Driver
1 Tin Street
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
1 Kiki-Jiki
2 Siege-Gang
3 Incinerator

3 Warren Weirding
4 Vial

Sideboard
3 Therapy
4 Chalice
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Grip
3 Relic of Progenitus (testing it out for now)
1 Wort

@Tacosnape: I just realized that Thorn of Amethist reaaly hurts Ad Nausea Tendrils, and i run 4 MD. Bad luck on not drawing any...

@Itecken: Really cant help. Maybe, in the SB,I would take out the Chalices, and put something like Piroknesis (Goblins and fish), and maybe a 4th Incinerator. But im not really a RGB fan.

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Originally Posted by Itecken

Hello, first time poster long time reader. I need some help on my goblin sleigh match up. Its the only deck that I lose constantly to in my meta. I have thresh (UGb), sneak, stax, fish, scepter, WB, and goblins (tons of goblins).

My deck is as such

Land 21
2 Badlands
4 Bloodstain Mire
4 Mountain
3 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

4 Fanatic
4 Lackey
4 Driver
1 Tin Street
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
1 Kiki-Jiki
2 Siege-Gang
3 Incinerator

3 Warren Weirding
4 Vial

Sideboard
3 Therapy
4 Chalice
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Grip
3 Relic of Progenitus (testing it out for now)
1 Wort

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well for starters, kiki jiki is kind of outdated. i would most certainly run a main deck sharpshooter if the mirror is giving you trouble. he can also just end games on his own through direct damage. also, if your metagame is heavy with goblins, keep a few pyrokinesis in the board, as they can single handedly turn the match into a blowout.

Running only 21 lands in a 3-colour deck is kind of shaky at best

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Originally Posted by Itecken

Hello, first time poster long time reader. I need some help on my goblin sleigh match up. Its the only deck that I lose constantly to in my meta. I have thresh (UGb), sneak, stax, fish, scepter, WB, and goblins (tons of goblins).

My deck is as such

Land 21
2 Badlands
4 Bloodstain Mire
4 Mountain
3 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

4 Fanatic
4 Lackey
4 Driver
1 Tin Street
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
1 Kiki-Jiki
2 Siege-Gang
3 Incinerator

3 Warren Weirding
4 Vial

Sideboard
3 Therapy
4 Chalice
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Grip
3 Relic of Progenitus (testing it out for now)
1 Wort

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If there is so much Goblins I would play Terminate or Smother over Warren Weirding.

I run 21 lands because I am constantly mana flooded at 23 which is the highest I will go to on land count. On weirding, you might think it's not that good in the mirror but saccing a matron for 1 more beater (the other replaces matron) comes in handy. How does this list seem.

Land 22/3
2 Badlands
4 Bloodstain Mire
5/6 Mountain
3 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

4 Fanatic
4 Lackey
4 Driver
1 Tin Street
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
1 Sharpshooter
2 Siege-Gang
3 Incinerator

1/2 Warren Weirding
4 Vial

Sideboard
3 Therapy
3 Grip
3 Relic of Progenitus (testing it out for now)
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Incinerator/Weirding
1 Goblin Tinkerer/Wort

Why do you have more Taigas than Badlands when you have more black cards?

I like Wort, but she's been sucking more and more lately. She's excellent against decks that can't handle her for recurring removal, but sucks donkey nads when you need her the most and can't keep her down. In the mirror, recurring Incinerators with her is really awesome. Weirdings vs Goblins really sucks bad which helps if your opponent is running them and you have more Incinerators. If I expected a lot of Goblin decks, I'd swap to a 2/2 split of Incinerator and Weirdings if not a 3/2(or 1) split.

Another thing, I tried Thorn last night against burn and still got owned. I'm sticking to Chalice lol.

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Originally Posted by Ranarion

If there is so much Goblins I would play Terminate or Smother over Warren Weirding.

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Or, you know, Pyrokinesis.

Goblin Mirrors are interesting and a very good and sneaky reason to not run black, especially now that R/G and Mono-R actually have a weapon to deal with Tarmogoyf in Relic of Progenitus (Albeit Weirding is more effective.) I've actually been tinkering with an R/G list that eschews 4 Weirding in favor 2 Gempalm and 2 Tin-Street, with 4x Pyrokinesis and 4x Relic of Awesome in sideboard. Threshold's tougher, but Goblins is way better, as are a few other matches that benefit from the maindeck Tin-Streets.

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Originally Posted by chokin

I like Wort, but she's been sucking more and more lately. She's excellent against decks that can't handle her for recurring removal, but sucks donkey nads when you need her the most and can't keep her down.

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Agreed. This is why I don't play her.

How has Relic of Progenitus been to those testing it? I'm really digging it. Makes me lose to Goyf a lot less. Now if only Ethersworn Canonist was printed as a Goblin...