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Are you talking about last season where our offense smashed every kind of record or the 2009 season where we won the Superbowl?Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
I was actually referring to the extreme penalties being handed out: like the head coach being suspended. Just to be made an example of for something all teams do.
IMO it would be a more than fair fix if they errata S&T to allow planeswalkers to be put into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by LOurs
@joemauer
Ok so 2 seasons. You mean like they did to the Patriots a few years back over the whole filming the other team bs?
If you want to drop a Walker, Eureka works.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
I think he was more thinking that if it allowed your opponent to put a Walker into play, it would be more balanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
I wont bet on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
the reason S&T could be considered as borderline nowadays is that it allows you to draw 7/14 instantaneously whatever your opponent put in play with S&T except needle effect. And needle effect are pretty weak to answer to a 7/7 flying lifelink creature with 5 back up in hand... an opponent planeswalker wont prevent that in any way, S&T pilot will just put a bit more bounce or so, still drawing mass cards, still winning ...
The deck is clearly beatable all in all, but if they wanna fix it for some reasons, a ban of S&T is imo both the easiest and the best way to do it.
Allow all permanents to be put otb and you could Show and Tell a Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker. Not exatly a fix...
They suspended the Patriots head coach? I must have missed that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
@Tinker being broken: We ought to Necro the B & R challenge thread again. The one where people tried to prove/disprove cards were broken. It seems like a good time for that thread.
I was refering to "Just to be made an example of for something all teams do."Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
Just because your tolerance for "unfair" is higher than someone else's doesn't mean you should resort to name-calling. I mean, why not just unban flash and the power 9? Who cares if it's unfair? Go play casual.
^^ The above is absurd. Please don't use it as an argument against me because I'm not actually advocating that. My point is that there will always exist a line between broken and acceptable. You really can't call people whiners just because their line is lower than yours.
You're right insults are unnecessary. But that doesn't take away from the argument that a competitive environment should be dumbed down because some people don't like a certain cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
Dumbing down? You mean by making people actually play the game or?Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
tinker doesnt need a deck full built around it : 2/3 tinker (or even only 1), appropriate number of artifacts (such as land artifact, sensei and other easly playable & cheap artifact) and 1 win con target is fairly enough to add a very powerfull option to many Ux.decQuote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
With a correct built, it is basicaly a 1 card combo.
Omniscience got spoiled:
Omniscience
{7} {U} {U} {U}
Enchantment {MYTHIC}
You may cast nonland cards from your hand without paying their mana costs.
What do you think? Is this a candidate for banning or is it just bad because it isn't hardcastable unlike Dreamhalls/Sneak Attack?
I am thinking it might actually just be bad compared to dream halls as it is if dream halls resolves the game is basically over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignithas_
But not having to discard a card to make this work and not being symmetrical makes this worse?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondancerbb
Being able to actually cast Dream Halls is the only benefit compared between the two. In all other areas, Omniscience is better. (I understand you-CorpT get that, just adding to the discussion)Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
The fact that you can never actually hardcast it and so can only show and tell it out. One of the reasons sneak and show is so good is outside of its show and tell plan it can just cast sneak attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
Agreed. I guess it comes down to how often you would hard cast a Dream Halls vs how often giving the ability to cast freely backfires. In all likelihood, it is cast very rarely, but backfires even more rarely. That's pretty speculative though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
I guess the other difference is that you can cast Emrakul with Omniscience, but not Dream Halls (correct?)
Banning Show & Tell still leaves us with a format that can consistently or reliably put into play a turn 2 Griselbrand via Entomb. Banning Show & Tell alone doesn't necessarily "fix" the format from the Demon.Quote:
Originally Posted by LOurs
Actually, Dream Halls gets hardcast pretty regularly. It's the main advantage the deck has compared to Hive Mind, with Dream Halls you only need a single 2 mana land to hardcast it on turn 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
If reanimator is forced to use the GY, it becomes sooooo much easier to hate out. There are a multitude of sideboard cards that can be played in any deck that would make games 2 and 3 more of an uphill battle for the Reanimator player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Does it backfire very often? Is casting Emrakul relevant?Quote:
Originally Posted by rooneg
My point was not to support or not to support a banning decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
No. You just kill them on your turn, if they cannot counter your SnT/Dream Halls. They can only fight you with instant speed. If they have a FoW they'd cast it for "free" anyway. What do you mean by "casting Emrakul"? You cannot cast Emrakul off Dream Halls unless there is a Painter's Servant in play. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
That's my point. You can cast Emrakul off of Omniscience. I understand that you kill them immediately. I just didn't know if giving them the ability to cast spells for free, counterspell, etc... was relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn
It backfires occasionally, say for example when you get dream halls into play and an opponent uses dream halls to cast a counterspell they didn't have the mana for (to counter your post-dream-halls Conflux). It's relatively rare though, since people playing decks w/ heavy countermagic probably didn't tap out when it was likely you'd try to show and tell or hardcast dream halls, they'd usually rather keep mana up and fight over the dream halls.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
The option to cast Emrakul is a little relevant, but honestly, the 4 Progenitus (which we need to power our Conflux chain anyway) are already usually enough to provide a beat down plan if dream halls doesn't work out, and taking up more slots would mean you'd lose either cantrips (making the deck less consistent) or countermagic (which you want to force through your combo). Plus, Progenitus can pitch to FoW and Emrakul can't, which is occasionally relevant.
Short version, I'm not running out to replace my dream halls with the new thing.
OMG Ban Glimpse of Nature. You can never beat a heritege druid. This deck is so broken... It is really elvish visionary against the format... Elves can put an Emrakul or a Regal Force into play vs. Show&Tell and laugh at Griselbrand.
Made my day. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by catmint
3 Elves decks in the T16? Get rid of Wirewood Symbiote now before shit hits the fan.
Well lands won the whole event, so I think Life from the Loam is the problem here.
I mean wizards just gave us a fair Life from the Loam in the form of Land Tax so it is clear what needs to be banned here.
Ban everything! Then all of the cards will be cheaper and reinvigorate Legacy!
Everyone wins!
Everybody take a look at the top 16 SCG Detroit lists.
0 Griselbrands
0 Show and Tells
Ban Griselbrand and Show and Tell?
I'm not arguing for any of those to be banned, but looking at a datum point is pretty silly. Which is what the other people were sarcastically saying. Stop making arguments based on one tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by into_play
More copies of GSZ than Brainstorm, does this mean that GSZ is too powerful and unfair? By some peoples standards in this thread it would seem so...
Also this is the second Legacy Open in a row without Show&Tell or Griselbrand in the top 8.
People are just scared of it. They are building their sideboard and maindeck to hate out on sneak attack decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
Thats why the decks that beat those sneak attack decks also didn't top either since they are also getting beaten out early in the round by the eventual top 8 finishers.
Isn't that how the meta game is supposed to work though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
But didn't you read the other thread? Griselbrand is impossible to hate on, he just instantly wins the game...Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
Griselbrand and Show and Tell are still a problem. Just because something isn't winning doesn't mean it isn't drastically warping the format. Just the mere existence of Dredge should tell you that. The question is, how many Dredge-like decks can Legacy handle before it's impossible to apply hate for all of them, and is it healthy to let more than one hang over the format at the same time?
Affinity and Lands played in a finals match in the year 2012. ALL arguments about banning Gris are invalid.
It was a Top 8 match, not the finals. But still, it was pretty cool to see.