[DTB] Blade Control

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Originally Posted by preddi

So I played my blade list at my local today. I have played two Jund lists and lost to both. I think this matchup is not very good for us.
I'm looking for ways to improve the matchup, any suggestions?

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What are you playing? Because I have been a playing u/w version, and I this is my experience so far against Jund. In a nutshell, Cards like jace and elspeth are very good in this matchup, because of the net card/board advantage they both net you. Then, small thing like never playing stoneforge unless you can brainstorm, or unless you can slam the equipment right away is something too, so you can't have it hit by a discard spell (they will often not play their discard baring hymn early in order to get you with your pants down after playing a stoneforge). Also, jund tends to play a lot from the top of their decks, so shutting down sylvan library and Bob ASAP is very important, and even more so in their case , as literally every card in jund nets them a 2 for 1. Also, if you can play spell snare, that card is very good against them, in general, as the scariest things IMO cost two in there (bob, library, hymn and tarmogoylf to a certain extend). Also, after looking at JRichardson's list, I tried out moorland hunt, and it happened to be really good in this matchup (protect jace, trump liliana -2, smash people with jittes). Out of the sideboard, I go for a removal suite, in verdict, path, perish (the only black card in the deck), and now testing geist of saint Traft (can't be decayed, bolted, and seems to go well with the "i break your board and hit you for a lot plan").

Finally, if you can't control the early torrent until they end up hellbent, your chances will be VERY low (especially in game 1). letting bob live even 1 activation is usually a major disadvantage (remember, all their cards are 2 for 1s), and library is just disastrous. Also, play arround wasteland as much as possible, and sensei's top is also very good against mass discard.

Aside from that, graveyard hate should not be bad against them (I think), and lingering souls should also be very good, until they play engineered plague.

How do you guys feel about Geist in the SB for Esper? What MU is it good for? As far as I can see, it seems good in mirror but that's about it. I don't like it against BUG due to Goyfs and Liliana/

@preddi
I'm considering to add to Baleful Strixes to my sideboard and board them in in the place of Cliques. So after board my removal suit becomes: 4 StP, 2 Explosives, 2 Verdict, 1 Perish, 2 Strix.
I feel like with Lingering Souls and Snapcasters doubling as StP or Perish I should have enough tools to durdle Jund at an equal footing. I haven't been able to test it yet as I just can't find the time to attend any events but have played a few double fisted games myself and so far it looks (yes just looks) like boarding in 5 pieces of removal (including Strixes) should be enough to pull the matchup towards 50%. Btw boarding out -3 FoW, -2 Clique.

Also, I'm confused about the Geist from sideboard as well. What matchups do people bring those in?

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Originally Posted by bilb_o

@preddi
I'm considering to add to Baleful Strixes to my sideboard and board them in in the place of Cliques. So after board my removal suit becomes: 4 StP, 2 Explosives, 2 Verdict, 1 Perish, 2 Strix.

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Strix is not a SB card whatsoever. If you're looking for additional removal you should probably look into something more dedicated.
Imo Strix and Souls battle for the same MD slots, with Strix having gained an edge in that battle due to Shaman's running rampant these days.

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Originally Posted by bilb_o

@preddi
I'm considering to add to Baleful Strixes to my sideboard and board them in in the place of Cliques. So after board my removal suit becomes: 4 StP, 2 Explosives, 2 Verdict, 1 Perish, 2 Strix.
I feel like with Lingering Souls and Snapcasters doubling as StP or Perish I should have enough tools to durdle Jund at an equal footing. I haven't been able to test it yet as I just can't find the time to attend any events but have played a few double fisted games myself and so far it looks (yes just looks) like boarding in 5 pieces of removal (including Strixes) should be enough to pull the matchup towards 50%. Btw boarding out -3 FoW, -2 Clique.

Also, I'm confused about the Geist from sideboard as well. What matchups do people bring those in?

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Geist can be sideboarded in for mirror matches or miracles i feel. It might even be good in those BG/BUG midrange decks. It basically renders decay obsolete. With sword of feast and famine equipped, it's even better.

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Originally Posted by klaus

Strix is not a SB card whatsoever. If you're looking for additional removal you should probably look into something more dedicated.
Imo Strix and Souls battle for the same MD slots, with Strix having gained an edge in that battle due to Shaman's running rampant these days.

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Not necessarily, Lingering Souls is still terrific CA and better if you don't run it into Shaman's removal. I opted for Strixes instead of other removal like Path to Exile because it is removal you don't have to keep in your hand (dodge topdecked Hymn) and provides card advantage as opposed to other removal options. What's your strategy against Jund?

Edit: Also considering the Goblins matchup where you could use removal+CA in one packege.

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Originally Posted by bilb_o

Not necessarily, Lingering Souls is still terrific CA and better if you don't run it into Shaman's removal. I opted for Strixes instead of other removal like Path to Exile because it is removal you don't have to keep in your hand (dodge topdecked Hymn) and provides card advantage as opposed to other removal options. What's your strategy against Jund?

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I think you missed my point. Due to the exact reason you mentioned: Strix = Swiss knife (cantrips, equipment carrying body, removal). You don't add Ponder to your SB either.
As for my approach - I'll post a list later.

I don't think it is similar to boarding in Ponder. I think it is more like boarding in Geist and going all aggroey, instead you are boarding in Strixes and going more durdly and defensive.

I recently put together Esper and went 4-0 at my first tournament (definitely luck and good draws). After doing some testing I have a couple of specific questions about the Esper I was hoping to get feedback on:

- The mana in Esper has felt terrible yet most of the lists I see are running 22 lands and only 4 basics. Are people basically just conceding that they will lose to double Waste in order to reap the benefits of utility lands in non-Wasteland matchups?

- If winning the control mirror is all about resolving Jace, why is no one running a 4th JTMS in the board? Is it simply not flexible enough as it doesn't really come in against other archetypes? If you aren't running JTMS in the SB for control MUs, what are you bringing in (Geist, Clique)?

Sideboarding cards for the Esperblade mirror seems like a waste of sideboard space to me. The deck isn't prevalent enough in top8s, and usually matches in the swiss barely get to game 2.

Does anyone know how to get in contact with Vidi? I want his sideboarding plans badly, trying to become skilled with his list and need a bit of help. Maybe someone else is competent of explaining what goes in and out? If you do know how to contact him, drop me a PM with his info.

His username is Vidi here on the Source. It could be .Vidi, but I'm sure you'll find it.

-Matt

I notice a lot of players running a singleton Supreme Verdict in the main. Not super-sold on this, particularly in lists without Intuition. Has anyone been finding it worth the slot?

I think it transitioned from the 2 Engineered Explosives from Ben Friedman's list a few months back for most players, one of them was replaced with Supreme Verdict.

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Originally Posted by Koby

Esper Blade has enough difference from stock UW to warrant a new variant. If someone puts together a primer for it I have no doubt it would get popular. My own reservation is that the list has effectively not evolved since late Spring. Is there any significant changes that could be discussed in detail? For evidence, Vidi's list from the GP is only 3 cards different from his SCG Las Vegas list circa July 2012.

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I think the deck has to ask itself whether or not it wants to play DRS and a Tropical Island at some point.

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Originally Posted by mini1337s

I notice a lot of players running a singleton Supreme Verdict in the main. Not super-sold on this, particularly in lists without Intuition. Has anyone been finding it worth the slot?

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Nah I cut it after a while too. It was way too random, most of the time. I prefer having two in side that I bring in when needed.

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Originally Posted by ThediscoPower

Nah I cut it after a while too. It was way too random, most of the time. I prefer having two in side that I bring in when needed.

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That's exactly where I'm at.
It's easier to wrap my head around it as a pitchable Engineered Explosives replacement, but I find the only thing I can't deal with that EE can't are planewalkers. I can see an argument for Show and Tell, but I don't think it's reliable enough to matter.

Still on 4x Force of Will in the main, but they are sided out most game 2s (aside from combo, which is heavy at times in Halifax).

LOVE Humility in the sideboard. I'll blank random 15/15s all day, and out CA fair decks with Lingering Souls. I often bring in 2x Humility, 2x Supreme Verdict, 1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant versus fair creature decks (siding out FoW and Vendilion Clique), and have had amazing results.

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Originally Posted by apistat_commander

I recently put together Esper and went 4-0 at my first tournament (definitely luck and good draws). After doing some testing I have a couple of specific questions about the Esper I was hoping to get feedback on:

- The mana in Esper has felt terrible yet most of the lists I see are running 22 lands and only 4 basics. Are people basically just conceding that they will lose to double Waste in order to reap the benefits of utility lands in non-Wasteland matchups?

- If winning the control mirror is all about resolving Jace, why is no one running a 4th JTMS in the board? Is it simply not flexible enough as it doesn't really come in against other archetypes? If you aren't running JTMS in the SB for control MUs, what are you bringing in (Geist, Clique)?

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Question 1:

I run 22 lands, with all of them being color producing lands. The land base feels pretty decent to me. I almost always mulligan 1 land hands with this deck though. Here's my land base, if it'll help you:

4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas

Question 2:

For the mirror, I usually side out all my Force of Will plus some number of Swords to Plowshares. I generally bring in Dark Confidants, Vendilion Cliques, Sword of Feast and Famine, and Surgical Extractions. You don't necessarily need all 4 Jaces in the mirror because there are a lot of ways to keep your opponent's Jace off the board (Countermagic, Lingering Souls, EOT Flash creatures, etc.). Having that 4th Jace makes the deck a little clunkier--especially when it could be something else, like a Thoughtseize, that'd nab important cards from their hand or set up a clear path to play your own Jace.

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Originally Posted by JimmyC27

Question 1:

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I just have had quite a few games where I open a hand with 1 fetch and 2-3 duals where getting Wasted once or twice keeps me off my curve for a really long time. I am almost always fetching basics, so maybe it is just variance. I have been on the fence about running the 5th basic over an Academy Ruins, but I am sorely tempted by the possibility of buying back my equipment and/or EE. It also gives people a target for Wasteland that isn't colored mana so it acts to protect my mana. But more basics is never really a bad thing.

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For the mirror, I usually side out all my Force of Will plus some number of Swords to Plowshares. I generally bring in Dark Confidants, Vendilion Cliques, Sword of Feast and Famine, and Surgical Extractions. You don't necessarily need all 4 Jaces in the mirror because there are a lot of ways to keep your opponent's Jace off the board (Countermagic, Lingering Souls, EOT Flash creatures, etc.). Having that 4th Jace makes the deck a little clunkier--especially when it could be something else, like a Thoughtseize, that'd nab important cards from their hand or set up a clear path to play your own Jace.

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When I said "control mirror" I think that I meant Jace mirror more than Esper mirror, but it seems to be that there are simply better cards for filling that role against control decks. I am curious about everyone boarding out their Forces against other blue decks. That makes sense against BUG, where you are just grinding out cards, and to some extent in the Blade mirror because you can match threats so well. However I would think that you would want all of your countermagic against Miracles as a resolved Countertop lock is pretty good against us.

I had another basic question about sideboarding, are people generally bringing in their discard in grindier MUs against other midrange and control decks (you obviously bring it in against combo)? If you know the game is going to go long, adding discard seems to be a less flexible choice than additional equipment, Cliques, EEs, etc.

Also, against other Blade decks, do you take out your swords? I have been cutting Swords on the assumption that I just don't have many good targets post-board and leaving in Forces because they catch Jace or Stoneforge equally well.

With UW I would generally leave in about three Swords to Plowshares to protect against getting tempo'd out of the game when they're able to resolve an early stoneforge and I'm not. I found that guarding against this auto-loss scenario helped me to win a lot more games than the occasionally meh draws caused me to lose--even here, where stp does not shine, it can usually buy you an extra turn during most points in the game.