Better luck next time!
Printable View
Better luck next time!
It is a shame to here they do not want to show more decks on camera.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigapatrick
I always find it is the consistency issues that make is seem under powered. When you have the correct cards it does well it is just the lack of deck manipulation that causes problems. As for Lands, while I know it has been promoted to DTB, without discard like Raven's crime the deck seems to suffer in a combo-heavy meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigapatrick
You should get the Wastelands first, then Nether Voids. Unless you own them already, in which case, I are jealous. :cry: I'd definitely recommend a Night of Souls' Betrayal if you're going to be hiding behind a bridge and removing Bloodghast.Quote:
Originally Posted by zebhillard
They're Italian, but I do have them. Wastelands will be replacing Ghost Quarter within the week, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
D'oh. I knew I forgot something. I /do/ want either a NoSB or BSZ in the main. Suggestions on what to take out?
I am curious about the potential of Darkness.
It is a time walk vs creature decks. Sometimes one extra turn is all i need.
did somebody say darkness??!! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
yay!! turbo fog!!
now all i need are howling mines, font of mythos, temple bells, etc..
now i can fog my way to victory!! :laugh:
I agree about Pox's consistency issues. Without library manipulation, every draw is a hope and pray draw, and that's just not going to cut it for a big tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by lyracian
Powder Keg. Unless Affinity makes a comeback, Night of Souls' Betrayal will auto win you. Once I fought Thopter Foundry and that topdeck literally won me a losing game. I'd never run less than 1 or more than 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
About consistency, if your board position is good, you shouldn't have to worry about your next draws. When you get Liliana, and Cursed Scroll, you've practically locked the game unless your foe can draw 3 cards and cast 2 of them, in which case, you didn't disrupt hard enough and should have mulliganed.
If consistency is key, may as well go Blue Pox with Brainstorms and fetch lands and etc. Though we're not a traditional control deck, I wouldn't try it. I did use that before using cool things like Shadow of Doubt [the black cantrip stifle]. In that case, going Force of Will becomes too tempting and then you're no longer Pox... :tongue:
Very few decks in legacy exist tier 1 without card draw or manipulation. I really dont think phyrexian arena is so terrible to test, I unfortunately am on the eight rack version and dont own wastelands or sinkholes. Turn one ritual into arena > turn one lilianna.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigapatrick
While I wasn't considering Brainstorm + Fetch Lands...part of me was thinking about 2xSDT + a single Thawing Glaciers, or two copies of Infernal Tutor, for the games that you're empty handed and just need one card to turn a soft lock into a hard one.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
:eek:SACRILEGE!:eek: In any case, what you have effectively done is say, "Mono-back control is > Pox control". Normal control decks want to draw more cards, but as Pox, we're not 'normal control'. Our job, nay, duty and obligation, is to function under a self induced worst case scenario. :cool: Wasteland, Smallpox, Pox, Liliana, and Innocent Blood all destroy our own resources and our opponent's. Control decks traditionally want to function with as many resources as possible. 1 massively gigantic threat that's near impossible to kill and lots of mana on field and lots of cards in hand. As Pox, we poke you to death with 2 weenies in the form of Mishra's factories and Nether Spirits while you try to figure out how to play with no cards, blockers, or lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythegreek
If you think about the overall objective, we are almost a tempo deck looking to do the most influence with the least resources, hence Dark Ritual. I say almost in that we don't play threats first then disrupt like RUG Tempo Thresh. We disrupt and use threats that cost no mana (Nether discarded and Mishra's land drop).
For me, when I first joined magic, and I still love it, I wanted a deck with the most effective form of Land Destruction possible. That, is my favorite Pox deck type. And it's the only deck that has effective LD as far as Legacy can tell.
Whenever I'm playing, I find myself really wanting a way to institute a hard lock against an opponent. Land Destruction, Liliana, and a cost increase like Trinisphere or Nether Void all set up the game to be able to force the opponent to top-deck, but leaves that as a potential avenue for their victory unless we can completely shut them out of one resource (land) or control their draws (even fateseal isn't enough, a discard effect that can take place inside their draw-step is the only action I can think of).
Without these two capabilities, Liliana Pox will always have a weakness that can be hoped for. The issue is minimizing this weakness in one form or another (raising the cost of casting spells above their available mana, perhaps), which can be difficult at times. So, brainstorming on that has been my time-killer for the last few days and I'm still trying to work on something. The only things that come to mind are a form of Necrogen Spellbomb recursion, or an instant discard attached to Isochron Scepter? This still leaves them the ability to cast in response to the activation...which is something I don't think we'll be able to escape.
You're thinking about Isochron Scepter on Funeral Charm, which is also a nasty way to kill weenies, give your guys unblockable [yay Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth], or add more power to your attacks. However, it is mana hungry. There is no instant aside from a Miracle that is worth worrying about as a Pox player. Our targets are supposed to be hard to kill due to the sacrifice protocols we've induced upon ourselves. Your spellbomb recursion is a 3 card 'combo'. Crucible of Worlds, Buried Ruin, Necrogen Spellbomb. I find Liliana alone to be enough. I used to run Trisphere in my Crucible's spot, but running a 1 of Ghost Quarter with 4 Wastelands and Crucible is just true evil... :tongue: There are no 1 cmc spells that I fear and if they're a greedy mana deck, it's auto win for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by zebhillard
I agree with Omni that worrying about a hard lock is not worth the deck space, I play G/B Pox so maybe my take is a little different but that is why when we get out opponent into topdeck mode (Exactly where pox wants to be as soon as possible) we need to present a threat and answer to their draws. Liliana is probably the best answer as it keeps them from holding cards and answers creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
If you are really in the market for a hard lock piece why not run Anvil of Bogardan and Chains of Mephistopheles? Chains is already a great card in pox and Anvil will do double duty for you since you can discard things like Bloodghast, Nether Spirit, or untility lands (with crucible in play, or Life from loam for GB builds)
I personally think that adding a convoluted hard lock is just diluting your deck. You will lose more games to drawing hard lock pieces when you need disruption than you would have lost to players getting out of a soft lock.
I took revised Pox (with the changes listed in the previous e-mail) to the LGS last Saturday and ended up doing a bit better, finishing the night at 2-1. We only had 8 players because there were plenty of other things going on, but I felt good about the rounds as they happened.
Round 1 - Sneak & Show (2-1)
He took game 1 in short order, as I didn't have enough disruption to keep him off a Show and Tell, and my best answers to a giant beast entering play aren't valid with Show and Tell. Game 2 he conceded when I put in an Ensnaring Bridge into play off of his first turn Show and Tell then proceeded to play Swamp, Scroll, Ritual, Liliana leaving me with a hand of one card. Game 3 was similar, but included turn 1 Pithing Needle on Grislebrand, Turn 2 Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack and Ritual into Liliana, Turn 3 Ensnaring Bridge.
Round 2 - Reanimator (2-0)
Two quick games without much of note happening. I respond to his turn 2 Exhume with double Surgical Extraction on Elesh Norn and Iona, then proceed to Bojuka Bog the rest of his grave a few turns later as he tries to rebuild; and game 2 I start with a Leyline in play and then go full on land destruction after putting a Nether Void in play.
Round 3 - Goblins (0-2)
This one was upsetting. Game 1 I mulligan to 5 and keep a hand that's "meh" but couldn't get any better if I went to 4, and slow him with with a Night of Soul's Betrayal and some disruption, but he eventually Vial's through my kill and takes it. Game 2 I board in the Bridges and Engineered Plagues and hold him off for a short while after a t1 Pithing Needle on Vial and t2 Ritual -> Nether Void, but I'm reduced to topdecking and he starts cranking out Goblins through back to back Cavern of Souls that I can't blow up fast enough to allow me to manage his creatures.
I feel much better this week than last week, a few of the control options worked great and I was never upset to see a Nether Void hit my hand. I still think the deck needs a way to "topdeck better" though. In several games if I drew into a tutor or other effect I think they could have ended quicker or differently.
Losing to Goblins when you've needled the Vial and have Ensnaring Bridges and Night of Souls' Betrayal is ultimately just bad luck. You had Engineered Plague too right? :frown:
As far as deck manipulation is concerned, if you're really that desperate for it, the best one I've found in a mono-B config is Crystal Ball. Unlike, SDT, it doesn't cause garbage draws after 4 turns and we don't need to run fetchland effects. If you want to draw more cards, I suppose Bottled Cloister will be a solid choice for you since you run bridges, but Liliana won't love you for it.
I was tempted to test Druidic Satchel since it turns all top decks into a resource of some sort, but it's mana cost is steep.
I had boarded in 3 Bridges and 3 Plagues, but saw 0 of either in game 2. Just bad luck on that one, I don't really chalk it up to anything else.
Edit Update and Such: I've decided to go all in, since a windfall has just been gifted upon me. The Abyss and a pair of Chains of Meph will be heading my direction in short order, and the Wastelands will be arriving tomorrow. Next week when I'm finally able to make it back, Pox will be in full force with all of the traditional powerful old school flavor. I just can't decide if I want to run 1xAbyss + Nether Void main with 2 Infernal Tutors and one of each of the enchant worlds in the SB, or 2 of each in the Main.
Hey everybody. i was just introduced to thesource a few weeks ago and have been perusing the forums for a while and i found this primer. while i have seen pox in action i have never played the deck myself, played a version in modern called 8rack but not quite the same when you cant run the fun cards.
I had two question about this decks matchups. the gamestore that i play at has a higher count of death and taxes and elves decks running around along the normal amount of wonderful jank that is legacy. how is the death and taxes and elves matchups? is there any big sideboard cards that you would recommend?
I have yet to play against D&T, but I did run through a few games against Elves over the last two weeks. Game one is a toss up, with you needing to be on the ball to keep their creature count low enough so that they can't drop a Cradle and do the Crop Rotation dance to pop out a Craterhoof when you have no instant speed removal. After sideboarding when the Engineered Plagues, Night of Soul's Betrayals, and Ensnaring Bridges come in though...they have a much more difficult time. You just have to make sure their hand stays free of Abrupt Decay and Malestrom Pulse if they're splashing black, and you keep them from getting enchant/artifact hate elves active, then sit and tear away at all of their resources. Unlike Goblins, I've actually yet to lose a game to elves post-board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Themucher
Fought a Craterhoof combo elves and D&T. My modified version of Reid Duke's Mono-B Pox has never lost to D&T. A vast majority of D&T involves humans and several tax creatures that have 1 toughness. If you can stall long enough to hit your 1-2 of Night of Souls' Betrayal, it's a bye. I also maindeck a single Engineered Plague.Quote:
Originally Posted by Themucher
Combo Elves game 1 is extremely hard since all my Ensnaring Bridges and extra Plagues are in my board. I just side out my Inquisitions and Hymns for 8 creature stalling permanents. Key to elves match is to deal with their board presence and worry about their hand later. If it's in their hand, it's not breaking your jaw. :laugh: