[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

I'm thinking about this as my sideboard (1 Grim, 1 AN main, no Empty, 2 Ponder):

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Dread of Night
1 Massacre
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Empty the Warrens

Has anyone had experience playing with 4x Xantid Swarm? I find that against Sneak and Show and Reanimator, I only win if I find one turn 1, which makes me want to play 4. Thoughts?
I expect a fair bit of Miracles for this invitational in the Pacific Northwest, so 4 Decay seems like a must. Against Miracles, what do you think my board plan should be? So far I've been trying:
-1 Duress, -4 Cabal Therapy, -2 Preordain, -1 Lotus Petal, -1 Cabal Ritual, +4 Abrupt Decay, +4 Xantid Swarm, +1 Sensei's Divining Top.

Is that overloaded too much on Swarm? Should I bring in Empty? What have your experiences been?

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Originally Posted by phazonmutant

I'm thinking about this as my sideboard (1 Grim, 1 AN main, no Empty, 2 Ponder):

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Dread of Night
1 Massacre
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Empty the Warrens

Has anyone had experience playing with 4x Xantid Swarm? I find that against Sneak and Show and Reanimator, I only win if I find one turn 1, which makes me want to play 4. Thoughts?
I expect a fair bit of Miracles for this invitational in the Pacific Northwest, so 4 Decay seems like a must. Against Miracles, what do you think my board plan should be? So far I've been trying:
-1 Duress, -4 Cabal Therapy, -2 Preordain, -1 Lotus Petal, -1 Cabal Ritual, +4 Abrupt Decay, +4 Xantid Swarm, +1 Sensei's Divining Top.

Is that overloaded too much on Swarm? Should I bring in Empty? What have your experiences been?

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(You certainly mean, 2 Preordain.)

I don't have experience with 4 Swarms but I have some with 2 which is my favourite number. Sneaky is weak to discard and, although Reanimator is a tough MU, I wouldn't want to weaken my main too much. Flusterstorm is a nice card here, too + 1 Extirpate. But if it works for you than it is definately fine.
Against Miracles: Sure, the more Storm spells the better. I don't play Empty anymore as I find this card to be simply to weak and useless against a wide range of decks. The main EtW is better than the SB one but let's leave this aside. I wouldn't recommend boarding whole playsets from the main as Cabal Therapy is still alive and valid in game 2/3. I have the feeling that Lotus Petal is a card which is not powerful enough to fight against Miracles where a speed boost is not needed because ANT brings in slower/reactive cards such as Decay.

If you guys wanna kill tegg even if there is a mother of runes there.
may be this is the answer.
also its nuts vs infect.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=114911

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...4911&type=card

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Originally Posted by phazonmutant

I'm thinking about this as my sideboard (1 Grim, 1 AN main, no Empty, 2 Ponder):

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Dread of Night
1 Massacre
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Empty the Warrens

Has anyone had experience playing with 4x Xantid Swarm? I find that against Sneak and Show and Reanimator, I only win if I find one turn 1, which makes me want to play 4. Thoughts?
I expect a fair bit of Miracles for this invitational in the Pacific Northwest, so 4 Decay seems like a must. Against Miracles, what do you think my board plan should be? So far I've been trying:
-1 Duress, -4 Cabal Therapy, -2 Preordain, -1 Lotus Petal, -1 Cabal Ritual, +4 Abrupt Decay, +4 Xantid Swarm, +1 Sensei's Divining Top.

Is that overloaded too much on Swarm? Should I bring in Empty? What have your experiences been?

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Agree with Robert on lp, I dont like XS vs Miracles because everyone is prepared for creatures postboard nowadays, trading XS for removal feels dumb (Id play needle instead and a grip instead of 4th ad), if you play it anyway then I'd sb out every duress before a therapy, in your case Id opt for +EtW +3xs +4ad +sdt -cr -2 preordain -ponder - gp -2lp -1duress = 61 in case of 60 cut another lp

Since Ad nauseam is just a draw spell lp is weakest card and there is plenty of time, EtW is excelent imo (won me both post sb games yesterday T1 and Txx)

The only time, realistically, I want more than 2 swarms in my board is when two conditions are satisfied at the same time:

1) Show and Tell decks are seeing a lot of play

and

2) Show and Tell pilots are playing 3+ Leyline of Sanctity on avarage.

Atm neither are fulfilled. And even if they were I think 4 Xantid Swarm is incorrect. 3 would be my number. As the format is atm, I'm perfectly happy to have 2 sitting in my sideboard for when I occasionally run into a non-leylined show and tell deck.

Against non-leylined Show and Tell decks they are really just a trumph. Usually discard is fine. If they do have the White leyline swarm is imperative, but even then they might just mull into oblivion looking for it.

The reason I'd never want 4 is that it is a dead sideboard card against the majority of the field. You might want to side in 1-2 against Miracles. People will argue for and against that, but never 4 imo. Other than that you'd only want them against narrow decks like High Tide and Merfolk.

Also... Lightning Bolts are literally everywhere right now... :smile:

+1 on the comments above from Nevilshute,Slosh and Robert.

One sidenote:
Depending on my gutfeeling i sometimes board Xantid Swarms against Tempodecks in G3 if i haven't seen removal spells in G2.
Always try to next level them ;)

Sudden shock is severely underplayed in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by d0nkey

Sudden shock is severely underplayed in my opinion.

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2 dmg is fine 2 mana is not, still playable but not exciting

Hey!

Tomorrow i'll go to the finals of the catalan league of legacy (35 players more or less) and after studying the meta and knowing that it will be like 25% combo (15% show and tell, 10% others) 20% miracles 30% delver/blade variants 10% Thalia decks 5-10% chalice decks, 5-10% others

I'm running the deck with 7 discard spells (4 therapys), 2 preordains and a Grim tutor. No SDT in maindeck (i'd like no play it, but i can't fn room for it). The sideboard is this one:

3 Xantid Swarm
3 abrupt decay
2 Krosan Grip
2 Sensei's divining top
2 chain of vapor
1 massacre
1 pyroclasm
1 empty the warrens

I'm think that with the 25% of the meta being combo i should play 2 flusterstorm in the sideboard, probably in the place of 1 krosan and 1 Xantid (fluster=good against all combos, xantid=fantastic against show and tell), not sure about this one.

The prizes are: tropical island for the top8, 2 bayous for the top4, 2 seas for the top2 and 2 seas and a tundra for the winner.

I need you to take the best decision about the flustter question, i'll tell you the results!

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

2 dmg is fine 2 mana is not, still playable but not exciting

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Agreed. It's definitely a great effect, but costing three under Thalia is no bueno

watching invitational replay - Jim Davis fucks up R5G2 with Ant, more interestingly the Opp - predicted B splash (CT, Extraction) in UR incomming, I just really hope Donegan gets totaly wrecked today otherwise darker times might be ahead of us

Hi everyone :smile: I'm coming back after a period where I've been busy with university exams, so I've lacked time to test updated sideboard options. Anyway, this week I'll prepare for a medium tournament next sunday, I really miss counting to ten. That's why I'm asking you some help to start from with my testing, since I had no time to try anything. Anyway, I followed the format and I clearly know what the tier decks are at the moment :tongue:

How was Carpet of Flowers in the sideboard? I saw a match from sawatarix on cockatrice this week, he was playing against Miracles, and I thought that Carpet was doing his job quite good. Also, the match pretty much clarified me how we must play vs. that deck!
Also, did Carpet do a good job vs. UR Delver? Was it meant to enter the deck also in that particular match-up, or am I just wrong?

Another tier deck I faced a lot in my few cockatrice game in UWR Stoneblade-Pyromancer, or Patriot as I still call it. There are some different lists I understood, but I didn't study them carefully. Brian Braun Duin's list was really a StoneBlade, with Stoneforge, Nemesis and so on, but there were also some lists with a more aggro plan. The match-up was tricky. It seems easy, since they have just Fows and sometimes Daze or a couple Spell Pierces, and I often found them uncovered, but you need to hurry up sculpting your hand, because they have REBs that are annoying on cantrips and when they set up a board presence with Pyromancer + Tokens or B-skull + Stoneforge and Nemesis they give you just a couple turns clock. That should not be a problem, but combining with REBs could sometimes end up in their favor. That's why I really liked my Top!
I was boarding-in CoVs, Massacre for sure, and thinking about bringing in my second Top. How do you board against this deck? And what do you think about the match-up, am I wrong?

Last question: is Flusterstorm still valuable in this meta? It covers us from combo decks that are always present, but it seems me that right now they're a small part of the field. In particular I saw Show.decks become less and less popular, am I wrong? I could keep them because I hate losing to Renimator, but I would drop 'em if I'll find more valuable cards. Those could be Carpets, or others, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

watching invitational replay - Jim David fucks up R5G2 with Ant, more interestingly the Opp - predicted B splash (CT, Extraction) in UR incomming, I just really hope Donegan gets totaly wrecked today otherwise darker times might be ahead of us

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I noticed that too! Owen Turtenwald was playing a list with a Sea and 4 Cabal Therapy in the board. That could be annoying since Pyromancer+CT+Gitaxian Probe is literally mindtwisting our hand. Add REBs to hit counters, and that's quite bad for us. They also have a really fast clock to end up the game. I think we should play 2 ways: or a fast way, trying to end the match in the first 3 turns where cabal therapy is less relevant and they have less ways to draw it in combination with pyromancer, or we can play the control role, with decays, tops, pyroclasm and additional Tendrils.. I don't know, what do you think about that?

could you elaborate? I can't see how is Carpet benefitial in that MU it's a wasted slot where slots are precious imo

It's logical step that was sure will come as the original deck is very soft to combo, I recall there was a splash B list very early after TC but few picked that up, most notable there was some Scg top 8/2 few weeks ago, I think the MU just becomes simply horrible if SE joins CT ... Winning fast is reasonable vs CT but definitely makes things a lot tougher, the days you laugh at their 2 flusterstorm 2 Cage might end... My hope is that these tendencies get dismissed because of relative nothing these card do in majority of important MUs - uwr, miracles, mirror especially, it should play out this way i think, but i'm no expert at creature crossMUs and deck construction ... I'm just a bit worried it becomes a legitimate choice for mediocre netdecking mass for some time, combohaters first

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

could you elaborate? I can't see how is Carpet benefitial in that MU it's a wasted slot where slots are precious imo

It's logical step that was sure will come as the original deck is very soft to combo, I recall there was a splash B list very early after TC but few picked that up, most notable there was some Scg top 8/2 few weeks ago, I think the MU just becomes simply horrible if SE joins CT ... Winning fast is reasonable vs CT but definitely makes things a lot tougher, the days you laugh at their 2 flusterstorm 2 Cage might end... My hope is that these tendencies get dismissed because of relative nothing these card do in majority of important MUs - uwr, miracles, mirror especially, it should play out this way i think, but i'm no expert at creature crossMUs and deck construction ... I'm just a bit worried it becomes a legitimate choice for mediocre netdecking mass for some time, combohaters first

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Make no mistake, Cabal Therapy is insane against the non Wasteland Stoneforge decks. Four Slots and a slightly weakened manabase to turn combo from unfavourable to favourable and making Stoneforge Mystic laughable is a fine trade, 250 bucks for sideboard options maybe not so much for the broad masses.

Young Pyromancer + Gitaxian Probe + Cabal Therapy ?
Sounds like Ant 2014 ;D
Pretty annoying to play through since they have a fast clock and discard/counter. Past in Flames is the way to go for sure.

Carpet of Flowers has been a tool to fight taxing counter such as daze,spell pierce and flusterstorms (Storm1-2)
It is not totally nessecary but i recommend it because it helps you a lot against those tempodecks without having headaches.See it as an upgrade to lotus peal/cabal ritual.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

could you elaborate? I can't see how is Carpet benefitial in that MU it's a wasted slot where slots are precious imo

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Which MU are you talking about? Miracles: Carpet is good if the plan is to follow the natural tendrils route, it gives us tons of mana. UR Delver: I don't know if it's beneficial, I was asking it! :tongue:

sawatarix: yeah, it seems :tongue: more seriously, I agree that PIF is golden vs. therapy + race, I was thinking about an additional PIF in the board, I'll try to test it. Talking about Carpet, are you bringing it in also vs. UR?

Just came back from the Berlin Legacy league final. I went for the 1st place after the whole year of playing. (almost exclusively ANT of course)
The final tournament was decent with the Top16 (only 11 attended).

Rounds were:
2:0 UR Delver (game2 mulligan to 5: protected 2nd turn kill)
2:1 UWR BBD's list (City of Solitude wins)
2:1 Team America with Sifle
1:2 Reanimator (managed to go off via PiF against Griselbrand and Sire of Insanity in play: one mana short for the save kill, Ponder shows nothing, GG)
#2 place in the tournament and #1 place in the league

SB was:
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Massacre
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Extirpate
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 City of Solitude

Congratulations on the finish bruh. Btw, when you said mulligan to 5, protected 2nd turn kill against UR, did you actually bring in bees against burn?

City of Solitude shuts off everything blue, better than Carpet of Flowers and Defense Grids. The casting cost though..

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

Young Pyromancer + Gitaxian Probe + Cabal Therapy ?
Sounds like Ant 2014 ;D
Pretty annoying to play through since they have a fast clock and discard/counter. Past in Flames is the way to go for sure.

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and here comes Surgical Extraction as a nail to the coffin, free spells + Pyromancer +CT +DRS was really the worse in previous meta

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Originally Posted by Ghiwo

Which MU are you talking about? Miracles: Carpet is good if the plan is to follow the natural tendrils route, it gives us tons of mana. UR Delver: I don't know if it's beneficial, I was asking it! :tongue:

sawatarix: yeah, it seems :tongue: more seriously, I agree that PIF is golden vs. therapy + race, I was thinking about an additional PIF in the board, I'll try to test it. Talking about Carpet, are you bringing it in also vs. UR?

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was aiming on Miracles - can't see it value in it, it does nothing until the kill turn when you have loads of mana anyway, get about the same mana as CR but without the stormcount, it's so situational and not even good on it's own... ok if 4 Toa, x Carpet is the plan it could work but these card do nothing at all the other MUs
UR - no it operates on 1-2 land +fetches just fine, fast clock, just Daze, no wasteland, no thanks I'd rather cast a cantrip

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Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

Just came back from the Berlin Legacy league final.

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Congrats! nice job with the City... but Venser? you seriously need more Karakas ;)

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Originally Posted by death

Congratulations on the finish bruh. Btw, when you said mulligan to 5, protected 2nd turn kill against UR, did you actually bring in bees against burn?

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Thanks.
Nope. Certainly not. I went for Ad after one Ponder/Probe.

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

Congrats! nice job with the City... but Venser? you seriously need more Karakas ;)

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Thank you, Martin. I love Venser and I was sure that I don't want to play more Xantids or Carpet. = Vensy