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So after some refinement[and taking into account your criticism], this is what I came up with:
8 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tomb of Urami
4 Bloodghast
3 Death's Shadow
3 Tombstalker
4 Innocent Blood
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Snuff Out
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Raven's Crime
1 Pox
if you're trying to meta against zoo and goblins, you'll hate bloodghasts like crazy since they can't block. And most of the time, there's no point attacking them either since your 2/1 is always smaller than their goyfs or some crappy 1/1 goblin that's ready to chump block. I played gatekeeper of malakir and always liked it as it always killed something and it can chump block. I'm also a big fan of shriekmaws. Too bad there's nothing in the deck that can play around with creatures going to graveyard. oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by zpikduM
Quest for the Gravelord perhaps, but that is highly situational and like all quests, a terrible topdeck.
Endless Whispers maybe?
I'm kind of surprised none of these newer lists are running Nihilith (I think I spelled that right?)
Granted, it does suck to have tow ait for your threat, but with the amount of disruption in the deck (it IS a pox deck afterall) they tend to come in fast. They're hasty when they comein off suspend so you can begin applying pressure very soon after shredding their hand/board with Pox/Smallpox/Hymn/duress effects/what-have-you.. and they have a decent sized body for 2 mana.
I used to run those along side Stalkers, occasionally with factories, and they served me well.
@zpikduM if you'll playing in an aggro meta then running thoughtsieze and Death's Shadow might be a bad idea. I would also use Spinning Darkness mainboard.
i like pox and smallpox effects but i also like very fast clocks. i was thinking why don't we go back to the dark depths + hexmage combo. i believe a decklist took 8th at a starcitygames legacy tourney.
here's the deck list i am running currently:
16 swamp
4 wasteland
1 the tabernacle at pendrell vale
2 undiscovered paradise
2 dark depths
2 expedition map
4 dark confidant
4 vampire hexmage
4 bloodghast
3 gatekeeper of malakir
4 thoughtseize
4 sinkhole
4 smallpox
3 grim discovery
3 cabal therapy
gatekeeper can easily be pox or innocent blood
I noticed alot of pox decks arent running dark ritual.
Someone mind explaining why? I know its a dead draw turn 4 and after, but its a nice starting card. Does it really affect pox so much its better taken out ?
My current List is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by necba
//Land
8 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Cabal Pit
//Creature
3 Nether Spirit
//Sorcery
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Pox
4 Innocent Blood
//Artifact
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Culling Scales
//// Sideboard
4 Null Rod
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ravenous Trap
4 Extirpate
I have some questions:
1. Are Marsh Flats necessary ? Life lose
2. Should i cut -2 Ravenous Trap and -1 Nihil Spellbomb to add 3 Infest ? Against Aggro Deck´s ?
Thanks for helping
I personally hated Dark Ritual in my pox lists. Its a dead draw later, and I find the explosiveness not worth it. Pox tends to put both players in top deck mode quickly so if you get horrible topdecks you are much closer to losing the game. Even though Chrome Mox or Mox Diamond are also horrible top decks, I'd put them ahead of Ritual since those are permanent mana sources that survive Pox effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejzijel
My pox deck is currently running:
2 Nether Spirit
4 Hymn to tourach
13 Swamp
1 Syphon life
4 Inquisition of kozilek
3 pox
1 powder keg
1 Guiltfeeder (Late game monster :P a for fun card)
2 Crucible of worlds
4 Innocent blood
2 Senseis diving top
4 Sinkhole
3 Tombstalker
4 Mishras factory
4 Smallpox
3 Extirpate
2 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
2 Bloodghast
2 Wasteland
Anyone got any suggestions to make it better or get some better consitensy.
So far it worked good against alot of decks, and some times it falls hard.
Against decks with tons of critter removal (Yes, some people build this) its hard as hell. Extirpate helps a tad.
Please, suggestions are welcome.
Edit, i was thinking to switch Powder keg , siphon life and / or extirpate for 3 Culling scales.
Well, a night with Pox last night.
Went well to start but I do have to optimize the build some to actually have a chance against a huge combo meta.
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (Huge mistake, need 2 more)
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
15 Swamp (Some fetch's will be added, and add two Undiscovered Paradise for ghasts)
1 Sensei Top (Could use at least one more to have a long term ability to find answers)
4 Smallpox
3 Pox
2 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
2 Mox Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Bloodghast
2 Tombstalker (Will add one more)
3 Death's Shadow (Dropping to 2 to open up more Stalker)
With no real sideboard I simply had filler with 4 Nihil spellbombs (great way to save a card on table plus utility)
But I do believe;
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Extirpate
3 Null Rod (will remove Mox of course)
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Engineered Plague
2 Pithing Needle (all around badass)
My goal was for a fairly accelerated build. While Mox is a dead draw, so is dark ritual, so I found the mix to be nice. It leads to disaster zone openers where both players may start the game at 13 life with almost nothing. Ritual, duress/inq, hymn is a common occurrence which breaks a game open even in bad matchups. The amount of straight removal leads to very few games against an aggro deck going far unless they pull up a draw engine like Sylvan library (of which payment in blood helps out).
I found myself dead to planeswalkers though, with Bloodghasts having a hard time beating through an Elspeth or Garruk token, but those matchups do not occur often.
I'm considering adding green for 2 loam, 3-4 pernicious deed, and Garruk or token package. Mirri's Guile can be quite helpful as well in card selection, and at G has a nice cost to fit, but I feel top works quite well at that.
I played against a cats setup and worked fine.
Against a GBw walker deck I held out until being buried under tokens and blockers for bloodghasts and was forced to attempt to burn the player out with Pox's :eek:.
Up against a Hypergenesis deck I was basically drawing dead for game one, then game two actually beat him post combo. Innocent blood allowed me to force him to eat his hellkite and Progenitus. Hand hate helps quite the most there, although having something like Cabal therapy might have helped even better if he had no win condition to actually Genesis out. Game three he pulls out double magister and Pro' on turn 4 and I'm forced to feel sad with only a Smallpox and I.Blood to not get me there.
Match four put me against a shameful white deck that got eaten quite easily until a game two Gideon left me staggered. Game three took 35 minutes of both Topping to find something to do, while Pox went the long hall in eating lands before Emeria could be a real bother.
So it need's Deed I think. Possibly Cabal therapy to work the Bloodghasts.
Loam would certainly provide a slight edge with some utility lands and the ability to wastelock or recur Manlands for therapy or face time. Any other thoughts?
I'm tempted to drop Pox's for Confidants. That would put the curve at near invisible. Countertop's not a huge issue actually, you have enough discard to eat them.
Hey guys,
For late game, would it be possible to utilize Infernal Tutor? Since you don't have any virtual late game advantage, I was thinking that a top-deck tutor can grab you something relevant late game.
That or Phyrexian Arena, but Arena makes you loose life, really terrible if you're life is always below 10.
Anyways, as it stands right now, what is the current core of the deck? I have a mono-black casual control deck that I could convert to Pox.
I don't think there has been much development with the deck since Inquisition of Kozilek and that isn't even a stable. The deck varies greatly in strategy from player to player. It can be more leaning towards aggro with Tombstalkers and that 6/6 flier thing where your opponent can't lose, to a more control/combo build like mine which plays Contamination.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
If I were to say, generally people lean towards aggro which means playing with that 6/6 flier as well as Tombstalker. Other cards that must be played in this build include:
-Hymn to Torach
-Innocent Blood
-Ghastly Demise/Smother/Edict
-Duress/Thought Seize/Inquisition of Kozilek
-Small Pox (more important than Pox)
-Wasteland (sometimes, but you can be more aggressive and simply not play it)
-Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (if you play Wastelnads)
-Sensei's Divining Top (I think this is a must since you are always going into topdeck mode mid/late game)
I think that is pretty much it. Everything else is pretty flexible depending on build. Do you want pure Aggro with some removal and disrupt? Do you want AggroControl with some Wasteland to suppliment your Small Pox? Do you want Control to lock out your oppponents via hand and mana denial? Do you want Combo to lock out and kill your opponent? This deck swings a lot of ways and can fit a lot of different packages in it. Some people splash, some people don't.
Keeping it budget, however, will make it more control. You'd probably incorporate more Poxes so that you can blow more tihngs up. Generally though, it's not that fun since modern legacy decks drop that much stuff down, that big Pox is rarely very effective.
Its me again. Trying to make the thread a little more active. Now that I'm starting to get funds again, I'm considering putting more money into this deck. Considering running the following list:
10 Snow-Covered Swamp [Cause they look sexy(esp in foil), no other reason]
4 Marsh Flats
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Tombstalker
1 Nether Spirit
1 Undead Gladiator [This card looks really good as a late game draw engine.]
4 Innocent Blood
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bitterblossom
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Contamination
2 Crucible of Worlds
SB:
4 Duress [May turn into inquisition]
4 Go for the Throat [Huge card from MBS. Easily replaces Smother unless everyone in your meta is running Metalworker.deck]
3 Engineered Plague
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
Things I'm considering:
White Splash for Vindicate/Swords. Otherwise everything here looks quite good.
Thanks for the criticism in advanced.
I played a mono black list in a 30 people tournament today:
16 Swamp
2 Cabal Pit
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodghast
2 Nether Spirit
2 Tombstalker
3 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
3 Innocent Blood
3 Go for the Throat
4 Smallpox
3 Pox
3 Crucible of Worlds
Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Powder Keg
3 Extirpate
3 Reanimate
3 Smother
I was pretty exited to play Go for the Throat as it seemed to me to be flat out better than Smother, cause after all, what artifact creatures are played in Legacy? Metalworker and Affinity are marginal decks, and Dreadnought and Painter's Servant don't come with a lot of other creatures and are thus best handled with sacrifice effects.
I lost two games to Jace 2.0 and one game to a bunch of Tidehollow Scullers with SoLS.
So, as much as I like playing 16 Swamps, I think you can't play a Mono B version of this deck. Furhtermore, Pox has been pretty disappointing. In a deck that's so light on threads as the above list, the lifeloss is much more a liability than an advantage.
So I guess I will switch to BW and play Vindicate instead of Pox. Still there will only be 8 threats which can be too lite if you get your first thread Swords to Ploshared and take too long to draw another one. And yes, creatures tend to be a liability because recurring creatures aren't too powerful.
Can't we use alternative victory conditions like Cursed Scroll? Older lists used to play these, why aren't the played anymore?
Cursed Scroll has become unable to deal with the creatures that are played in Legacy. I suppose you could play Elspeth if you go BW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias
At any rate, the deck itself isn't played very much anymore, it doesn't do very well against a field full of Aether Vial, Daze and Wild Nacatl. It doesn't help that after Future Sight, black hasn't been getting a lot of cards that can go into Pox.
A lot of lists seem to be playing Nether Spirit and/or Bloodghast, but I'm seriously having doubts about them now. While recursion is great, they don't really beat for much and them eating Swords can really screw with the deck. I've been thinking about trying to have a better long game, but I realize that since we are at the mercy of our top deck that perhaps we should end the game ASAP and not give our opponent a chance to recover. In addition since Pox decks tend to spend a lot of our time at less than 10 life (especially if you are running the full playset of Pox) it's very vulnerable to top decked burn spells. Perhaps something like Death's Shadow would be better here in place of Nether Sprit or Bloodghast since it would be most likely huge due to our low life total. In addition, if it eats a Swords it will at least give you a decent amount of life so you can Pox safely again.
Is there any other card decent card draw in B other than Bob and Arena. The continuous lifeloss is a serious liability especially with this kind of deck, but its somewhat needed as well. Top is ok, though I still am somewhat iffy with it since I can't necessarily get rid of crap if you have crap on the top of your deck.
Night's WhisperQuote:
Originally Posted by MGC_player
Sign in Blood
Skeletal Scrying (but has dyssynergy with Tombstalker)
Dusk Urchins
...so no decent card draw, really.
Death's Shadow isn't so good either, it dies to your own Pox/Smallpox/Innocent Blood, Tombstalker is bigger unless you're very low on life, and against decks which don't deal damage to you, you need to resolve Pox before you cast the Shadow, which is awkward.
@ Matthias: I agree that monoblack Pox is sometimes close to unplayable, mostly because it often loses to any topdecked creature in the late game and Swords to Plowshares. Of the splash colours all have something going for them.
- Green brings: Life from the Loam
Pernicious Deed
- White brings: Vindicate
Ghostly Prison
- Red brings: Firespout!!!! and burn
- Blue brings: Brainstorm
Deep Analysis and more draw I cannot think of now.
Maybe it would be worth it running Mox Diamond, Fetches and maindeck Badlands and Bayou to get recursion and the best of removal.
You might consider Mishra's Factory and +1 Tombstalker to up your threat density. It obviously won't save you from Swords, though.
Some early versions of Pox tried to run lifegain: Sheltered Valley, Spinning Darkness in the board. Maybe they might find a way into some more exotic build.
Hi again,
thanks for the hints. I guess, the best way would be to go BGW and play Loampox like here (broken page, reload the page until it loads properly), but this is another deck altogether.
In testing and at the tournament, I had no problems with aggro decks, therefore I don't think i should try a red splash.
I'll maybe cut Pox and play 3x Phyrexian Arena instead, and maybe also +1 Tombstalker + 4 Mishra's Factory + 2 Urborg (although this means playing 8 colorless lands, not the best choice when the most powerful cards in your deck a 2-drops that cost BB).