[Deck] Solidarity (Reset High Tide)

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Originally Posted by Bahamuth

Now i realise there might be a great difference with the deck running 3 Think Twice mainboard, but is it a good idea to board out the Think Twices (instead of Remands (?)) for Spell Snares when playing against fast combo? I'd think Remand does offer some disruption, while Think Twice won't even be played before your opponent tries to go off.

The problem often isn't disrupting their combo, but getting trough the hate, which in TES's case are Xantid Swarm (which absolutely f*cks things up) and Duress. Once I manage to keep those off the board, I can usually win. It's sort of stupid tough to use your FoW on a 0/1 creature....

Black discard is (unfortunately) quite huge in my meta. Decks like B/W Confidant and Pox are played quite a lot. I guess I'll start playing those 4 Spell Snare too.

Also, playing 4 Spell Snare sideboard, How much room do you still have left for Hydroblasts? What's your board plan vs. Gobs?

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Personally, I think Think Twice is insanely slow. So yes, I guess if you insist on running Think Twice then you would def. board them out instead of Remands. Simply because you will probably never get to flash back Think Twice before they kill you. Also, as I said earlier, if you can get Remand mana up, then it's usually tough for them to go off.

Against TES. It is not "Stupid" at all to FOW Xantid Swarm. If that little shit resolves, then it is almost always GG, unless their hand is so god awful they can't go off before you can. If they cast Xantid Swarm later in the game, (after turns 1-2) then it is much weaker.

My SB right now is

1x Stroke of Genius
1x Brainfreeze
2x Hydroblast
1x Chain of Vapor
1x E. Truth
1x Wipe Away ( Normally Rebuild, but my meta-game is 0 Stax)
1x Turnabout
1x Meditate
2x Twincast
4x Spell Snare


I still have room for the 2x Hydroblast. Anymore than 2x Blast seems like a poor decision to me. With all of the Goblin decks packing Chalice of the Void instead of Red Blasts, Hydroblast becomes much weaker. If they lay down Chalice for 1, then it sucks to be sitting there with a hand full of 3 Hydroblast.

Well as i said in my post above, black discard is quite popular around here (the Netherlands), so I'm not sure if it would be good to cut the Think Twices again. There also aren't that many fast combo or any really fast decktypes around here, including not much Goblins either.

If I cut the Think Twices, do you suggest going back to 2 Peek + 1 Twincast?

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Originally Posted by Bahamuth

Well as i said in my post above, black discard is quite popular around here (the Netherlands), so I'm not sure if it would be good to cut the Think Twices again. There also aren't that many fast combo or any really fast decktypes around here, including not much Goblins either.

If I cut the Think Twices, do you suggest going back to 2 Peek + 1 Twincast?

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Yes. But if your post holds true, then I guess you can keep the Think Twices in. Peek doesn't do much good against Black x Decks.

I have been testing a control orieted build that runs 3x disrupts and 4x mystical tutors main I also upped the think twices to four and lowered cunning wishes to two. I have been considering cutting the wishes and upping the brain freeze count to four.
With everyone preparing for the faster combo decks Solidarity can disrupt turn one remand turn two and force anytime to slow down combo decks to solidarity speed. With the TT the deck can still draw over thresh and BW and with MT against aggro it can tutor up combo pieces to win faster.
Read the runes would also be a nice addition along with one more flash of insight. Well might as well type a list up..how about:

3 Bain Freeze

3 Mystical Tutors
2 Cunning wish

3 High Tides
4 Resets
3 Turnabouts

3 Meditates
4 Think Twice
4 Brainstom
4 Impulse
2 Flash of Insight

3 Disrupts
4 Remands
4 Force of Will

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

12 Islands

Board:

1 Turnabout
1 High tide
1 stroke
1 meditate
Stifle x3
Chain of Vapor x2
Truth x1
Dirsupt x1
Twincast x3
Brainfreeze x1

Well thats not bad it should be able to hold off combo then tutor up and hain into several brainfreezes...in theory

The reasons, why Mystical Tutor sucks have been covered in this thread quite some times, but to give you the two main ones:

a) It produces card disadvantage.
b) Predict exists

What exactly would you mean with "control-oriented"? The addition of a situational counter that often - cough*goblins*cough - will be outright useless, surely does not improve the deck. I, personally, would not even board Disrupt against combo if I had them in the board, because the combo-player often shruggs the one mana off/ plays Xantid Swarm /Defense Grid first. I think when you play your list, you will have issues with one-/two-land hands more often than with the standard build, because you are lacking Opts. And relying on a Brainstorm to draw into another land, is something I wouldn't advocate.

Just my 2 cents

You mystical they predict you think twice...whats the problem. So i guess we need more land. I will playtest when my friend gets home from work. In theory the mysticals would alow you to find your combo pieces faster against goblins while helping your bad matchups(combo, thresh, BW)

We need 3-4 land as a must. Once we get to two we have impulse, think twice and remand to find the third and the fourth land is optional.

Im experimenting here...every combo deck in history has used tutors to find spells that need to resolve. Flash used mystical, IGGy uses mystical, just because one card that is only ran in one(maybe) deck does not mean it cannot be played. The decktype is stagnant I am trying to tweak the deck to work in this metagame.

I think your worst argument is cutting a Cunning Wish and having a High Tide in the board. Those two really don't work together.

The issue is the format is faster than it used to be, and your changes are making the deck slower. In essence, you're really only tuning the deck to its own demise.

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Originally Posted by nightshade81

I think your worst argument is cutting a Cunning Wish and having a High Tide in the board. Those two really don't work together.

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Yeah. Lava Frogg, your list is pretty awful. Cutting Cunning Wish and a High Tide seems VERY awful. Also, you have no answers to Goblins in your SB, which is coincidentally one of the strongest decks in the format after Flash getting banned. Also, Think Twice is insanely slow, as we have all discussed in previous posts. Not to mention, you should not be running 4x of them. Two, maybe three at most would be better. Also, a third MD Brainfreeze is not necessary. It usually sucks to draw Brainfreeze in your opening hand, or early game. It's something you fish for at the end of going off, or you just Wish for it. I would go on, but I feel as though I have made my point.

Although I do think Mystical Tutors -> E Truth might be something this deck has to adapt to if ETW combo becomes tier one.

But nothing like lavafrogs list. BTW another thing I wanted to pick at is Flash of Insight is almost strictly better then Think Twice, and in my personal opinion it is. I would run the Flash of Insight count to 4 before I added one Think Twice.

Of course Flash of Insight isn't 'strictly' better than Think Twice. You really don't want to have more than 1 (maybe 2) in your graveyard. They become really useless in multiples, also because it costs you 3 mana not to get carddisadvantage when putting them in your graveyard.

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Originally Posted by Bahamuth

Of course Flash of Insight isn't 'strictly' better than Think Twice. You really don't want to have more than 1 (maybe 2) in your graveyard. They become really useless in multiples, also because it costs you 3 mana not to get carddisadvantage when putting them in your graveyard.

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They aren't useless if you flash them back for 1 every time. Then, it's just like a Think Twice that costs you a single card in your graveyard, only with the costs reversed.

Think Twice draws the first card for :1::u:, and the second for :2::u:.

Flash of Insight, if you pay it at one every time, essentially draws the first card for :2::u: and the second one for :1::u: and a single blue card being sent to the removed from game zone, which isn't necessarily bad.

Manawise, that leaves both Think Twice and Flash of Insight costing :3::u::u: for two cards. Therefore when comparing the slot to Think Twice and mentally envisioning playing Flash of Insight as such, it's not necessarily ludicrous to envision 4 Flash of Insights in a deck.

The obvious advantage of Think Twice is curving it out on turns two and three, whereas Flash of Insight can't do it until turns three and four. The obvious advantage of Flash of Insight, however, is that you shouldn't ever have to flash it back for just one. It's ludicrously more powerful and has the option of digging for the card it needs, as deep as you feel comfortable digging, especially lategame.

Flash of Insight gets the slot in the deck because it turns Brain Freeze into a bizarre draw spell and can stack your freaking deck. Think Twice shouldn't, because, well, it sucks. In the end, however, they're both as slow as the retarded kid in your 6th grade history class.

I think it is safe to say we all agree that Think Twice is too slow for this current meta?? Back when Gearhart suggested the card, I still didn't like it, but the format was not nearly as fast as it is now. With all of these ETW fast Storm decks crawling around, I wouldn't run Think Twice if you paid me. Well, it depends how much you pay me.

My list may be bad ill try to give some card explanations:

Mystical Tutor: Helps find specific combo pieces when you need them. Also has the advantage of finding post boad diamonds that you bought in.

Think Twice: Gives you more card advantage in the deck to offset mystial tutors. Alllows you to fight throgh threshs counterspells and recover from discard.

Disrupt: Pros:good against discard, threshold, faster combo (hey arent those the bad matchups right now)
Bad: goblins(it happens)

Brainfreeze: Im trying to make the deck aim for double freeze earlier in the game instead of one large brainfreeze. This speeds the deck up in that you can go off in response to them playing 2 spells and you can go off on your turn easier.

I think we can, and, altough I'm not sure if it's the same for my meta, I think I will drop them too and go back to 2 opt/peek 1 Twincast.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

My list may be bad ill try to give some card explanations:

Mystical Tutor: Helps find specific combo pieces when you need them. Also has the advantage of finding post boad diamonds that you bought in.

Think Twice: Gives you more card advantage in the deck to offset mystial tutors. Alllows you to fight throgh threshs counterspells and recover from discard.

Disrupt: Pros:good against discard, threshold, faster combo (hey arent those the bad matchups right now)
Bad: goblins(it happens)

Brainfreeze: Im trying to make the deck aim for double freeze earlier in the game instead of one large brainfreeze. This speeds the deck up in that you can go off in response to them playing 2 spells and you can go off on your turn easier.

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You say Mystical Tutor is in there to find combo pieces, yet you cut a Cunning Wish and moved a High Tide into the board??? Also, You are much more likely to play against Goblins than you are Discard or faster Storm Combo at this point. Disrupt should not be MD at all. Also, Faster combo isn't a horrible matchup for Solidarity. I find myself usually beating other combo decks, i.e. TES, Iggy Pop, and CRET Belcher.


Also, if you are concerned about going off that much earlier, just play Spring Tide. You are trying to bend a good Solidarity list into something completely in the opposite direction.

I also can't understand the reasons why you are all so worried about the faster combo decks(mostly TES and Belcher). I played several games against those decks and in general I won more games than I lost. Epic storms most problematic card against solidarity is Xantid swarm as it simply makes your disruption useless. The warrens were absolutely not the problem for me. If they're on the play and go turn 1 8 tokens this already should give you very good chances to race them. Most games I lost were something like them playing first turn Xantid Swarm on the play and killing me turn 2. Furthermore they lose many games to remand/Force.
So in general I think that if they're on the play the matchup is about equal.
If you're on the play then the matchup is favorable for Solidarity.

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Originally Posted by Muradin

The warrens were absolutely not the problem for me. If they're on the play and go turn 1 8 tokens this already should give you very good chances to race them.

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Uh, if they drop 8 ETW Tokens on turn one, You have to combo off and kill them with three land in order to outrace them.

Their turn one: 8 ETW Tokens.
Your turn one: Island, whatever cantrips you play eot.
Their turn two: Swing for 8 (You're at 12)
Your turn two: Island, whatever cantrips you play eot.
Their turn three: Swing for 8 (You're at 4)
Your turn three: Island, whatever cantrips you play eot.
Their turn four: Swing for Lethal. Good luck.

Without a perfect hand, your best bet is going to be either High Tide / Reset / Cunning Wish / Echoing Truth, or Reset / Reset / Cunning Wish / Echoing Truth.

Playing 4 Spell Snare, what is the correct sideboard plan against Pikula/Red Death/any deck with black? I figured it's not a good idea to board out the Remand, since I often needed them to use on Brain Freeze.

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Originally Posted by Bahamuth

Playing 4 Spell Snare, what is the correct sideboard plan against Pikula/Red Death/any deck with black? I figured it's not a good idea to board out the Remand, since I often needed them to use on Brain Freeze.

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I board out 1x Turnabout, 2x Peek, and 1x Brainfreeze to haul in 4x Spell Snare. Also, casting a Meditate pre-combo can really help you recover from all of their hand destruction, so usually I will board the Meditate in and cut the random 1x Twincast MD.