[OLD] UGr Threshold

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Originally Posted by Henrik

@Spirit of the wretch

Ok, after some early testing of "Next level grow", I like it a lot, and I would like to take back some of my earlier criticism. I am now considering changing my pet deck Canadian thresh for this one for the next event, but I would like some advise on how to use the sideboard. What goes in for each given matchup is pretty clear, what goes out is always harder. A quick rundown of the tier 1-2 decks in some sort of -/+ list would be highly appreciated.

Also, is price of progress one of the most valuable players in the aggro-loam and zoo matchups, or are the blue blasts enough? I am considering changing the PoP's for blood moons to improve the landstill and land.dec matchup.

Cheers!

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First of all, you can obviously board out the cards in the Meta Slots, if they aren't good enough in the MU. So my following boarding plans only consider the core of the deck. On the Draw I ofter board out the Dazes, especially against very aggrssive decks.

Grow(ish):
+4 Pyroblast
-4 Daze
Hardcounter for CB > Softcounter.

Aggro Loam:
+4 Hydroblasts
+3 PoP
-4 Lightning Bolt
-3 Meta Slot

Lightning Bolts are close to dead in that MU, as they won't act as removal here (unless your opponent is a complete retard =) and PoP is simply the superior burn.

Control:
+4 Pyroblasts
+3 PoP
-7 Trygon Predator/Lightning Bolt/Meta Slot depending how devastating their artifacts and enchantments are.

Goblins:
-4 CB
-4 Daze
+4 Hydroblast
+4 Pyroclasm

With Vial/Lackey Daze loses a lot of its Power. CB is close to useless in that MU.

Aggro:
(+4 Hydroblast)
+4 Pyroclasm
-3 Predator
(-4 Daze)
-1 Random

Most of the time Predator is to clucky for that MU and there aren't any worthy targets anyway.

Tendrils Combo:
-5 Meta Slot (unless your Meta Slots are really weird)
-2 Trygon Predator
+3 PoP
+4 Hydroblast/Pyroblast (depending on the deck)

PoP is a much faster clock than the Predator. Also it catches most combo player completly off guard.

question regarding sb choices for Lam Phan's deck from Winter Wonderland:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22561

Sideboard:
4 Disrupt (control wars/ANT/random.dec?)
1 Krosan Grip (why only 1?)
2 Pyroblast (no explanation needed)
2 Red Elemental Blast (no explanation needed)
4 Submerge (is this for the mirror/Team America/loam?)
1 Pyroclasm (why only 1? not expecting much tribal?)
1 Engineered Explosives - what are the most relevant matchups to side this in against besides ETW tokens/Zoo/Stax

why no pithing needles? how does it fight against deed/landstill?

Can someone please elaborate on those cards and what you would side out for them in a given matchup?

Thanks.

I guess the reasoning was something like:

1) I want Disrupt (Thresh, Combo, EvaGreen...), Submerge (TA, Thresh, Surivival) and REB (Control, Thresh),
2) That leaves 3 Slots,
3) I want some mass removal and disenchant effect - so 1 Grip and 1 Clasm with EE acting as a 2nd mockup version of each one.

Against Deed the deck has colorscrew and stifle as weapons. And generally Deed won't trade for more than 1 for 1. Landstill is still kind of hard, at least versions with lots of land and basics.

I would also like how you side with this board against aggro-control decks, where the 12 cards (Submerge, Disrupt, REB) come in. Probably -4 Daze, -4 Bolt, -2 Bounce, -2X (Fire/Ice?)

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Originally Posted by sauce

question regarding sb choices for Lam Phan's deck from Winter Wonderland:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22561

Sideboard:
4 Disrupt (control wars/ANT/random.dec?)
1 Krosan Grip (why only 1?)
2 Pyroblast (no explanation needed)
2 Red Elemental Blast (no explanation needed)
4 Submerge (is this for the mirror/Team America/loam?)
1 Pyroclasm (why only 1? not expecting much tribal?)
1 Engineered Explosives - what are the most relevant matchups to side this in against besides ETW tokens/Zoo/Stax

why no pithing needles? how does it fight against deed/landstill?

Can someone please elaborate on those cards and what you would side out for them in a given matchup?

Thanks.

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Disrupt cantrips and makes your Dazes and land destruction more relevant. Since you don't have Counterbalance, I think this is basically your primary tool against combo and other blue decks. Krosan Grip and EE serve as additional answers to CB, supplementing the Wipe Away and Rushing River maindeck. Submerge is awesome against all other aggro control decks, since everything runs Goyf.

I'm also a little confused as to how he sided. It seems like there's a lot to bring in for each matchup. I would guess that Lightning Bolts come out against decks with Goyf for Submerges, some number of Ponders and Dazes might be replaced by Disrupts, and maybe some number of Dazes and Spells Snares could become REBs? Basically, I would never side out the creatures, the Forces, or the Stifles/Wastes, but just about everything else seems like fair game.

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Originally Posted by b4r0n

I'm also a little confused as to how he sided. It seems like there's a lot to bring in for each matchup. I would guess that Lightning Bolts come out against decks with Goyf for Submerges, some number of Ponders and Dazes might be replaced by Disrupts, and maybe some number of Dazes and Spells Snares could become REBs? Basically, I would never side out the creatures, the Forces, or the Stifles/Wastes, but just about everything else seems like fair game.

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First of all, sideboarding the ponders is probably the next to last thing i'd do, after brainstorm. It's the tick that makes the clock go 'round, or whichever metafor is most apropriate, and that is something that we all know very well...

However, the submerge/lightning bolt boarding strategy is something to discuss. When facing aggro-loam or zoo, i'd say hell yeah, but in the aggro-control mirror (be it balanced thresh, tempo thresh or TA) I'm not so sure. Isn't lightning bolt and fire//ice the cards that actually give us an edge in this matchup?

I'm not saying submerge isn't worth boarding, just that bolt is worth to keep. That's one of the way's tempo thresh profits from the early disruption and tempo-plan, to finish fast before other decks that are more suited for taking control of the midgame actually survives until it's able to do so.

Or how do you reason about the aggro-control MU, playing tempo-thresh?

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Originally Posted by Henrik

First of all, sideboarding the ponders is probably the next to last thing i'd do, after brainstorm. It's the tick that makes the clock go 'round, or whichever metafor is most apropriate, and that is something that we all know very well...

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It's still possible to board out a single Ponder together with some other random cards like 1 Daze, 1 Stifle etc. to make space for cards like REBs and so on.
You will have REBs and Disrupts against the mirrormatch to disrupt the opponent's cardquality-spells without a huge disadvantage. This fact compensates the cardquality you are neglecting by boarding out 1 Ponder.
I would not go under 3 Ponders, though.

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However, the submerge/lightning bolt boarding strategy is something to discuss. When facing aggro-loam or zoo, i'd say hell yeah, but in the aggro-control mirror (be it balanced thresh, tempo thresh or TA) I'm not so sure. Isn't lightning bolt and fire//ice the cards that actually give us an edge in this matchup?

I'm not saying submerge isn't worth boarding, just that bolt is worth to keep. That's one of the way's tempo thresh profits from the early disruption and tempo-plan, to finish fast before other decks that are more suited for taking control of the midgame actually survives until it's able to do so.

Or how do you reason about the aggro-control MU, playing tempo-thresh?

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Against Zoo, Lightning Bolts are NOT boarded out. I'd not do that under any circumstances.
But against all the other above mentioned decks I would indeed board out the Lightning Bolts as in those matchups you will most likely face those creatures:

Tarmogoyf, Terravore, Countryside Crusher, Tombstalker, Nimble Mongoose.

Q: What does Lighnting Bolt do against these? A: Nothing. Period.

But this is where Submerge shines. it also harmonized verys well with Fire//Ice and the 2 bouncespells as you will be able to generate a insane speedadvantage which makes the opponent's creatures irrelevant.

Yeah, I agree with you on zoo, I don't know why I packed that deck together with aggro-loam.

But, in the other mentioned matchups, I still don't think it's so obvious to side out the bolts for submerge, just because it does nothing against their creatures. That's nothing new, bolt's haven't done much on creatures for years, but we play it anyways. It still does 3 damage to the player, which was my hole point in the last post. But yes, the submerge shines in the matchup as well, and they should be played.

if you're on the draw, i think you would put in 4 disrupts/submerges/red blasts (whichever fits better) instead of dazes as you cannot afford to daze and most likely wont be good anyway if your opponent is a turn ahead.

I second to that.

OP needs a serious overhaul; outdated decklist, card choices, matchup analysis, etc.
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I was particularly interested how this deck does against Dreadstill, particularly Ur Dreadstill.

so i played legacy tonight, round 1 stax, i had nutty hands and took it in 3.. he tried to resolve chalice for 1 every game, i lost when it resolved as he quickly played a trinisphere followed by a crucible/wasteland lock.

round 2, i played against affinity, lost in 3 after having the game won by going to time and he dropped the 2nd disciple and ravager after i drew 2 lands in a row and killed me for 10 dmg w/ ravager/disciple bs...

round 3 i played scrub.dec 2-1

round 4 another stax deck........ lose 2-0 he resolves the nuts every game.

i should have won affinity i made bad combat mistakes. stax is ridiculous if you cant counter 1st turn brokeness, you probably lose. i had 2 annul 1 krosan grip, but 1st turn bs is only fow and i never drew it after mull to 6 & 5 both games.

tweaked my board for next week, ingot chewer ftw.

Ok, I need to work on my board for the events coming up (trials, etc), but I haven't had time to test much. My MD is the standard tempo list,as it is pure gold. I've heard good things about disrupt and submerge, but are they really worth cutting slots like krosan grip, etc? Also, what do people think of relic of progenitus? I know somepeople have tested it to great success, and it looks great on paper as an even better submerge. It completely shuts down Team America as goyf is small and tombstalker almost never gets cast, and it splashes well on aggro loam, ichorid, and others. Another thought that occured to me is pyrostatic pillar. It absolutely destroys ANT (this one, I have tested), and while it hurts you it just makes it impossible for combo to do its thing.
The question is if it worth the sb slots, as it is very narrow.

Right now, I have this locked in:
4 Red blasts (2/2 split obv)
2-3 Pyroclasm

Are the above choices worth it, or do I stick with more grips, trygon predator, EE, etc? Assume a large, diverse meta, as I can obviously tweak it if I see more/less of something.

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Originally Posted by MULocke

Ok, I need to work on my board for the events coming up (trials, etc), but I haven't had time to test much. My MD is the standard tempo list,as it is pure gold. I've heard good things about disrupt and submerge, but are they really worth cutting slots like krosan grip, etc? Also, what do people think of relic of progenitus? I know somepeople have tested it to great success, and it looks great on paper as an even better submerge. It completely shuts down Team America as goyf is small and tombstalker almost never gets cast, and it splashes well on aggro loam, ichorid, and others. Another thought that occured to me is pyrostatic pillar. It absolutely destroys ANT (this one, I have tested), and while it hurts you it just makes it impossible for combo to do its thing.
The question is if it worth the sb slots, as it is very narrow.

Right now, I have this locked in:
4 Red blasts (2/2 split obv)
2-3 Pyroclasm

Are the above choices worth it, or do I stick with more grips, trygon predator, EE, etc? Assume a large, diverse meta, as I can obviously tweak it if I see more/less of something.

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wouldn't Null rod be a tad better than pillar since it also helps shut down affinity?
in the ANT matchup it kills LED/Petal at least.

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Originally Posted by sauce

wouldn't Null rod be a tad better than pillar since it also helps shut down affinity?
in the ANT matchup it kills LED/Petal at least.

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I beat affinity anyway (grips, predator, etc., and pillar does its job much, much better against combo (read: they don't win without a bounce spell first).

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Originally Posted by MULocke

I beat affinity anyway (grips, predator, etc., and pillar does its job much, much better against combo (read: they don't win without a bounce spell first).

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i am playing 4 disrupts in the board, they rock ANT's world.

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Originally Posted by MULocke

I beat affinity anyway (grips, predator, etc., and pillar does its job much, much better against combo (read: they don't win without a bounce spell first).

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You should considere that many ANT players have Angel's grace in their SB if not MD. So I doubt it's an auto-win if not bounced.

PM

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Originally Posted by Enigma

You should considere that many ANT players have Angel's grace in their SB if not MD. So I doubt it's an auto-win if not bounced.

PM

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You have a good point. It's not like they're expecting it, but I can see them bringing it in anyway because of the burn. It does force them to have the answer, but I'm just not happy with a card that isn't useful in any other matchup. Anyone else have positive testing with disrupt?

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Originally Posted by Enigma

You should considere that many ANT players have Angel's grace in their SB if not MD. So I doubt it's an auto-win if not bounced.

PM

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nobody in our meta who runs ANT had that, but they def should.

Hello everyone, I would like to join in the discussion about the UGr Tempo Threshold sideboard, I'm quite noob and totally confused about how to make it.
In my meta there's a bit of everything: Survival, Elves, Goblins, Slight, Affinity, Suicide, Team America, Ichorid, 43 Lands, 4c Landstill, Dreadstill, Affinity, Aggroloam, The Rock... that's why I can't have a sideboard so focused in facing control such as: 4x Red elemental blasts 4x Disrupt 4x Submerge 1x Krosan grip 1x EE 1x Pyroclasm

I've thought about something like this: 4x Red elemental blasts 3x Tormod's crypt 2x Krosan grip 2x Pyroclasm 1x Engineered Explosives
That leaves me with 3 free slots but I don't really know what to include, I don't even know what pairings I'm supossed to win and I don't win because of my lack of experience.
Could someone give me some advice please?
By the way, forgive me if I've done some gramatical mistakes or something similar, English is not my mother tongue.
Thanks

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Originally Posted by Arkarian

Hello everyone, I would like to join in the discussion about the UGr Tempo Threshold sideboard, I'm quite noob and totally confused about how to make it.
In my meta there's a bit of everything: Survival, Elves, Goblins, Slight, Affinity, Suicide, Team America, Ichorid, 43 Lands, 4c Landstill, Dreadstill, Affinity, Aggroloam, The Rock... that's why I can't have a sideboard so focused in facing control such as: 4x Red elemental blasts 4x Disrupt 4x Submerge 1x Krosan grip 1x EE 1x Pyroclasm

I've thought about something like this: 4x Red elemental blasts 3x Tormod's crypt 2x Krosan grip 2x Pyroclasm 1x Engineered Explosives
That leaves me with 3 free slots but I don't really know what to include, I don't even know what pairings I'm supossed to win and I don't win because of my lack of experience.
Could someone give me some advice please?
By the way, forgive me if I've done some gramatical mistakes or something similar, English is not my mother tongue.
Thanks

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2 threads of disloyalty (dreadnought)
1 pithing needle (pernicious deed)