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I don't understand running Scrubland. The card is very bad pre combo, and when comboing, you're going to need white and black anyway. That means you're still going to need at least another black or white source. Isn't it better to run straight Tundra's and a single Badlands?
Now we just have to worry about counterbalance...
SI-Emmy = easy win against Countertop, or piles that get around Countertop are also possible.
Time to pull out those lists from the time before Mental Misstep was printed with 9 green cards being in the sideboard.
Is white now a definitive cut to be replaced with discard once again? Or are we just going to see the resurgence of stifle in which case white seems... real good still.
I'd recommend start playing around with this: http://deckstats.net/deck-828058-1c3...6b6aa4-en.html
This is the list that made DDFT a DTB in germany between January and the printing of Mental Misstep earlier this year.
Two problems with that build. I really do happen to enjoy playing burning wish over infernal tutor - it makes winning that much easier off of an early DD pile.
Also, I really think, especially in lists that are also relying on IT > IGG that white will still seem more relevant than black for its protection. Any meta that still involves a high percentage of blue/tempo decks is going to force its DD pilots to keep white in the deck.
Two problems with your post. First, white is included for Orim's Chant in the list posted above and second, if you bring Tempo up as an argument, it doesn't make any sense to play Burning Wish/Ideas Unbound over Infernal Tutor/Meditate. The game plan against Tempo involves boarding out Cabal Rituals to have less cc2 in the deck, so we can almost ignore Spell Snare postboard, since the standard Meditate pile doesn't involve casting any cc2 spells. You can't win through Spell Snare, if your Chant doesn't resolve with Ideas Unbound as the draw engine in your pile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chikenbok
I didn't see the chants in the link you posted up, thank you for clearing that up. I did start piloting the deck during the misstep craze (prior I had been playing UBg ANT) so most tempo lists had replaced their snares with missteps which is why I hadn't experienced the 'avoiding snare plan'.
I do understand the idea though - I've gone back to meditate and cut the burning wishes - replacing the probes with preordains, and the wishes with tutors. I'm going to try the 4 chant/ 3 duress split and see if I like it more than the 4/3 chant/silence split - thanks for the advice.
Just spent a few hours testing against a post-ban Esper TA list. Deck ran Hymn, Thoughtseize, Jace, Stifle, FOW, Daze, Snare, Spierce in board etc.
I'm playing a fairly stock German list and I feel like preboard the match is not in our favor, perhaps 60% towards them - which brings me to the real point. Carpet of Flowers, and Xantid Swarm are complete houses. If Carpet resolves we win. If Swarm resolves, we win. If the two resolve together its really crushing.
Yeah, I always loved the SB package of 4 xantid's and 3 carpet's to wreck tempo's face. Especially merfolk. Without misstep merfolk becomes an easy MU postboard and preboard you can always win with storm what with you getting good draws sometimes to combat the opponent's draws. I really like the german list.
Someone could post some IU piles against stifle/hatebears?
Also, can I wish a card removed by DD?
thanks
Perhaps if you give us some situations in which you need to build a pile we can help you out. It really depends on which hate you're seeing and what you mean by playing around stifle.. Just put a duress in the pile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlatan
The best way to figure out a pile is to give us an example of what you have to beat, and we can work from there.
Also, no - you can no longer wish for cards that have been RFG'ed by Doomsday, Chrome Mox, Extractions, etc. etc. etc
This a post I made last year on this subject on storm boards. Not exhaustive but a good start.
Quote:
Non CoV disrupts in IU piles.
I am writing this post also to help me think about this issue. I am thinking at the same time I'm writing it so it should be quite basic, and any pile that has lower requirements than these is probably worth being noticed in this thread.
Against stifle
You cannot use SDT before duressing. So the first pile that should come to mind is :
SDT in play, BS/Ponder in hand :
-> IU, DR, DR/LED, Duress, ToA
BBB+ UUUB (7) 7 storm
If you don't have SDT in play you have to replace it either by a 2nd cantrip, or a card of the pile in hand.
Example with Brainstorm + ponder in hand it is :
-> LED, IU, DR, duress, ToA
BBB+UUB1 (7) 8 storm
Example with LED and brainstorm in hand :
-> IU, Ponder/SDT, Dark rit, Duress, ToA
BBB+UB2 (7) 8 storm
Since you cannot use tricks with SDT and there are no BW note that the storm is strictly equal to the number of cards used minus an eventual SDT in play at the start (I counted DD).
Playing around spell snare.
Since you cannot use IU before duress you probably want SDT in play + brainstorm + 1 card in hand.
-> LED, Duress, IU, LED, ToA
BBB+UB1 (6) 8 storm
If you have no SDT but a LED in hand in addition to BS and the random card you need one more mana to play the SDT.
-> Duress, SDT, IU, LED, ToA
BBB+UB2 (7) 9 storm
Playing around REB is almost impossible without IC. You probably just have to use IGG, hoping they don't have Force.
Dealing with Gaddock Teeg/True believer/Meddling mage in hand and vial at 2 (so no chain of vapor + SDT trick) :
These piles can be auto traps since against an opponent with enough life he can just not vial in the hate bear because you didn't reach lethal storm without playing the creature removal. Thanks to azru for noticing that.
SDT in play and Brainstorm/ponder in hand :
-> LED, IU, DR, Deathmark, ToA
BBB+UB2 (7) 8 storm
With slaughter pact you can just use the cantrip in addition to SDT to grab the pact from the top of the pile and then go classic IU, LED, LED, BW/ToA.
With just SDT in play you will need UUUBB1 post DD, so basically you replace a LED from the pile with the cantrip :
-> IU, LED, deathmark, Ponder, ToA
Having a LED in hand means the mana requirement post DD is UUU or BB1.
So, SDT in play and LED in hand is :
-> IU, LED, deathmark, ponder, ToA
BBB+BB1 (6) 8 storm
or BBB+BB2 (7) 9 storm
Or with slaughter pact ; SDT in play and LED in hand :
-> IU, LED, SP, ponder, ToA
BBB+B1 (5) 8 storm
or BBB+B2 (6) 9 storm
(to be continued)
..
Here are some standard ones, but there are many variations to up your storm count at the cost of additional mana. Storm counts include DD:
Gitaxian Probe in hand + BBB + 1UU
6 Storm + Tendrils
Ideas Unbound
Slaughter Pact
LED
Probe
Tendrils of Agony
SDT in play + BBB + 2UU
5 Storm + Tendrils
Ideas Unbound
LED
Slaughter Pact
Tendrils of Agony
X
SDT in play + Gitaxian Probe in hand + BBB+1UU
Slaughter Pact
Ideas Unbound
LED
LED
Burning Wish (or Tendrils of Agony)
Usually, I just come up with the piles on the spot, so may be mistakes. Keep in mind that you can do any of the piles requiring Gitaxian Probe with Ponder/BS instead for an additional U. You can also replace Slaughter Pact with any spell you need (maybe Duress to beat stifle) by just adding that spell's cost to the pile.
You have to be extra careful with anti-Stifle piles, because a smart opponent may stifle your Top instead of your Tendrils.
EDIT: Yup, Lejay summed it up pretty good.
Thank you guys. I will add this piles to my sheets You helped me a lot.
And one more question:
What should I run: deathmark or pact?
Ty
It depends on your build.
Talking about anit-Stifle piles:
Don't you think Laboratory Maniac is an option?
I mean, sure, he has a triggered ability. But if we draw 3 cards while there is only one card left in the deck our opp needs two stifle. Also: Lab Maniac enables more pass-the-turn-piles. Another advantage is that we neither need to worry about Gaddock Teeg (as this win condition doesn't need cc4 spells) nor about Aven Mindcensor (as a ptt-pile might be to fast for it).
On the other hand we must be absolutely sure that our opp doesnt have removal spells postboard.
Here are two examples:
Pass-The-Turn-Pile:
(Brainstorm in hand, UUUB "floating")
IU
Gitaxian Probe
Lotus Petal
Dark Ritual
Laboratory Maniac
Doomsday (in case Maniac gets removed)
Win-Now-Pile:
(SDT and LED in play, 2U floating)
IU
Laboratory Maniac
Brainstorm
Random Card (e.g. Doomsday)
Random Card (e.g. Tendrills)
Laboratory Maniac's ability is a replacement effect not a triggered ability. Triggered abilities are written as "[Trigger condition], [effect]," and begin with the word "when," "whenever," or "at."