[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

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Originally Posted by Oiolosse

I agree with Qweerios on Recycle. I used to play that in Combo Elves and thought it was solid.

That being said, since I am still farting around with it I have been trying some of the blue powerhouse enchantments. Future Sight is just so good with Top. Decree of Silence has been pretty awesome as well. The mana cost is is hefty but Rectoring it into play has been nice. Has anybody else experimented with this?

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Viridia has, though he's been going all the way down the rabbit hole and running Omniscience. My issue with the powerhouse blue enchantments has always been that they're uncastable. I do think that there's something there somewhere -- quite possibly in a future attempt at a Chromatic Lantern version, but I, personally, always get hung up on the fear drawing blue enchantments (oftentimes with UUU costs) in a deck without island. Some people have run Scroll Rack as a 1-of as a way to put the offending Rector target back in the deck, so I mean, it's not like you're the first to try it...it has achieved a level of success. Just not my personal cup of tea.

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Originally Posted by conboy31

Before I moved to rural ND and temporarily gave up magic I went with the 2 plains/1 Karakas split that you eluded to. I had a MD Sigarda and Thrun along with a SB Teeg to get utility myself as well as being able to legend rule the opponents (we have more virtual Karakas w/witness) and mise vs. Emrakul, etc.

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I was wondering what happened to you. That makes sense, I guess, lol.

Protecting Sigarda from Supreme Verdict seems good, as does mising vs Emrakul or blowing up opponents' Karakas -- because sometimes Yosei does need to go beatdown. I dunno. The issue is that it doesn't actually make my mana base better -- in fact, it makes it worse, because at least I can Explorer/Tribe-Elder the Plains out.

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Originally Posted by Demonic_Attorney

I have noticed that all the "nicfit" decks that have been winning and/ or placing in the top 8 of any fifty (50+) plus player Legacy events recently have all been sporting "scapefit" builds of this deck.

I note that this forum is for GBW; however, given the recent success of a seventy (70) player first place finish and a fifty-two (52) player second place finish and another top 8 in another larage scale Legacy event it seems as though scapefit is more consistent at posting better results than the more traditional nicfit version right now.

Should there now be a new form exclusively for scapefit builds or is this the appropriate forum to post and discuss same?

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This has been suggested a few times throughout the thread, but every time so far (obviously), we've rejected the idea. Our primary response as a sub-community has been to put our specific versions played in our signatures, so that we can keep track of which version we're talking about at any given time. Aside from Architect's point that a lot of us rotate through different versions personally, there's also the issue that most versions "speak" to one another, if you will. Tech that is good for one version is usually good for another, even though the lists may look completely different. We're all still "the same, enough."

As for Scapewish (which I shall attempt to continue to call it until the day I give up on the game), all I can say there is that it's an inspired design, and it still periodically offends me, because Rector is still my favorite version to play. I've spent a lot of time turning over just what exactly makes Scapewish so damn good in my head, and about all I can come up with is the synergy of the land-based combo kill. Like, Burning Wish is sweet and all, but it really doesn't have much to do with the success of the archetype. It's good because it gives you flexibility in addition to providing you with 6 available Scapeshifts, but it isn't "the reason." I think that, if anything, "the reason" would be that Scapeshift turns Veteran Explorers (and our backup ramp engines) into combo pieces. We get closer to comboing off and just killing someone with every land we play, which is what our deck wants to be doing ANYWAY on its way to casting Primeval Titan, Huntmasters, Thragtusks, whatever.

I'm curious to test Recycle, because between that and the NO package in the sideboard, Rector might finally be able to catch up to Scapewish. Both are pseudo combo engines in and of themselves, and Recycle in particular adds a Scapeshift-like quality to the deck, where every land we play gets us closer to going progressively more apeshit. Deathrite decks are completely kold to NO, and the more popularity they enjoy, the more powerful that package is going to get. So, we'll see what happens.

I'm actually liking Tabernacle, not so much as a sac outlet, but as a way to strengthen our already strong aggro matchup and as an additional answer to EtA/EtW/BfB token win-cons. Plus, it could enable a Standstill variant of Nic Fit.

Let's see . . . something like this could work, right?

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Acidic Slime
1 Primeval Titan

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil

4 Brainstorm
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Living Wish (I love my Wishboard)
2 Standstill
2 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse

1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest

1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea

3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island

Also also: Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek in the side?

Got to play my scapewish version in a small tournament last night (8 players, all on real decks).

List mods off of Arianrhod's sig...

No Elders
+1 Wood Elves (2)
+1 Scavanging Ooze / -1 Huntmaster (I don't have a third huntmaster, but like the ooze for GY hate...lot of dredge in my meta)
-1 Top
+2 Olivia Voldaren
(no stomping grounds, no stronghold, more basics, generally "not as good" manabase).

Most notable change to my SB: 1x Seeds of Innocence

Played up against Goblins, BUG Control, and Stoneblade

Goblins: This deck isn't to bad for us I don't think. He kept slow vial hands basically ever game. G1 was basically just sweep after sweep into a shift for the win (yay for fetch lands). G2 I kept a terrible hand (the more you know!), something to the effect of 4 lands, 2 tops, no business. This game would have been the same as G1 had I mulled, as he actually stayed on another slow vial hand. G3 he goes to 5, sweeps and thragtusks into a shift.

Rich on BUG Control: Rich is a friend of mine, and an extremely good pilot. I was in luck here, because it was his first time playing this BUG list (he's usually on esperblade). G1 goes pretty quick with a shift for lethal after some back and forth and control.

G2 drug on into a JTM followed by a top deck Lilly. Had it not been for the Lilly I MAY have been able to come back from this from the tusk on the board.

G3 Saw a top for him and no top for me. It was pretty brutal all things told, but I don't remember any specifics.

Oro on Stoneblade: I got a slight advantage because this guy doesn't usually play legacy, although he was on a very competent stoneblade list. G1 ends pretty quick with a shift for lethal. He was (apparently) holding FOW and just didn't counter it.

G2 drruuuggg on in top deck mode. For the first time of the night I landed Olivia, and she offed a vet for me to cast scapeshift for lethal (jace got pitched to FoW this time). Supreme verdict made her go buhbye, I landed hunt master at some point and he did his flip dance turn after turn. At some point he got down Batterskull which I had fun blocking with huntmaster tokens, then Jitte came behind it and made mr. wolf die. I was spinning my top again and again until finally I saw something useful--burning wish. Ripped wish, grabbed my board (intending to scapeshift) and realized I had already wished for it! Next best thing... Seeds of Innocence!! Wish/Cast seeds (by now everyone there was watching it) and I got a resounding "Oooooo" from my random singleton. Wipes Jitte/Batterskull, and I was able to go beat down from there. Ended the game at like 24

--End Report

I had originally thrown Seeds into my SB because it was just random junk sorcery I thought might be funny (and affinity... yeah... affinity...) but I decided to keep it in when I started getting real cards because this isn't the first time I've had Jitte+Batterskull landed against me. I will most likely replace it with shattering spree (because affinity isn't a deck where I am, and it's probably just as effective anyway) I just need to get one.

I don't play nearly as much as I'd like to, so I never actually got a chance to draw an opinion on Bonfire before swapping it out with Olivia, but I can say she will do some pretty fun shenanigans, as well as being a big ol flying beater in a deck without flying. She also gets rid of lingering souls relatively effectively, and does more damage for it in the process (I think...?)

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Originally Posted by Siiig

Got to play my scapewish version in a small tournament last night (8 players, all on real decks).

List mods off of Arianrhod's sig...

No Elders
+1 Wood Elves (2)
+1 Scavanging Ooze / -1 Huntmaster (I don't have a third huntmaster, but like the ooze for GY hate...lot of dredge in my meta)
-1 Top
+2 Olivia Voldaren
(no stomping grounds, no stronghold, more basics, generally "not as good" manabase).

Most notable change to my SB: 1x Seeds of Innocence

Played up against Goblins, BUG Control, and Stoneblade

Goblins: This deck isn't to bad for us I don't think. He kept slow vial hands basically ever game. G1 was basically just sweep after sweep into a shift for the win (yay for fetch lands). G2 I kept a terrible hand (the more you know!), something to the effect of 4 lands, 2 tops, no business. This game would have been the same as G1 had I mulled, as he actually stayed on another slow vial hand. G3 he goes to 5, sweeps and thragtusks into a shift.

Rich on BUG Control: Rich is a friend of mine, and an extremely good pilot. I was in luck here, because it was his first time playing this BUG list (he's usually on esperblade). G1 goes pretty quick with a shift for lethal after some back and forth and control.

G2 drug on into a JTM followed by a top deck Lilly. Had it not been for the Lilly I MAY have been able to come back from this from the tusk on the board.

G3 Saw a top for him and no top for me. It was pretty brutal all things told, but I don't remember any specifics.

Oro on Stoneblade: I got a slight advantage because this guy doesn't usually play legacy, although he was on a very competent stoneblade list. G1 ends pretty quick with a shift for lethal. He was (apparently) holding FOW and just didn't counter it.

G2 drruuuggg on in top deck mode. For the first time of the night I landed Olivia, and she offed a vet for me to cast scapeshift for lethal (jace got pitched to FoW this time). Supreme verdict made her go buhbye, I landed hunt master at some point and he did his flip dance turn after turn. At some point he got down Batterskull which I had fun blocking with huntmaster tokens, then Jitte came behind it and made mr. wolf die. I was spinning my top again and again until finally I saw something useful--burning wish. Ripped wish, grabbed my board (intending to scapeshift) and realized I had already wished for it! Next best thing... Seeds of Innocence!! Wish/Cast seeds (by now everyone there was watching it) and I got a resounding "Oooooo" from my random singleton. Wipes Jitte/Batterskull, and I was able to go beat down from there. Ended the game at like 24

--End Report

I had originally thrown Seeds into my SB because it was just random junk sorcery I thought might be funny (and affinity... yeah... affinity...) but I decided to keep it in when I started getting real cards because this isn't the first time I've had Jitte+Batterskull landed against me. I will most likely replace it with shattering spree (because affinity isn't a deck where I am, and it's probably just as effective anyway) I just need to get one.

I don't play nearly as much as I'd like to, so I never actually got a chance to draw an opinion on Bonfire before swapping it out with Olivia, but I can say she will do some pretty fun shenanigans, as well as being a big ol flying beater in a deck without flying. She also gets rid of lingering souls relatively effectively, and does more damage for it in the process (I think...?)

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Yeah, Olivia grows whenever she deals damage to something.

If there's a lot of Dredge in your meta, Sakura-Tribe Elder will help at least marginally, since you can sacrifice it at any time to nuke their Bridges.

If you're primarily worried about equipment, then you want Shattering Spree for sure. If you're worried about something like Metalworker, Pulverize is the go-to.

If the Olivia had stuck around, what impact do you think she would have had on the game? Assume that your opponent would have drawn the Verdict 2-3 turns in the future.

@ELC --

I feel that a Standstill-based list should be oriented more around the planeswalkers and less around the creatures. Like, dropping Jace into Standstill is busted, let alone something that actually generates board presence, like Garruk Relentless.

If you're on the Living Wish plan, then I think that you should cut the Green Suns. Green Suns as additional Explorers is good, but keep in mind that Standstill is essentially Explorers 5-8 already -- people are either going to break it, in which case you draw 3, or, more commonly, they're going to let it sit there for a few turns while they jockey for mana advantage. These few turns will allow you to just sit there making land drops with nary a concern, and when that Standstill does end up breaking, bad things are going to happen to them, because Nic Fit.

Tabernacle should probably be in your Wishboard. It'll be better there IMO, since it'll be more accessible. Also, you're on Standstills with 0 Wastelands or Factories? That seems really poor.

I'd make it more of a Standstill deck overall, to be honest, and I would flip the Brainstorms and Standstills (4 Stills, 2 Storms). Drawing cards is almost always better than drawing, then putting back, at least in a Nic Fit shell where we can get full value out of every card we draw since we generally have more resources than everyone else.

I'll try to theorize a token list and a Standstill list and put them up later for people to pick apart.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I'll try to theorize a token list and a Standstill list and put them up later for people to pick apart.

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I've been working on a token-ish list, so far i came up with this:

22 Lands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

14 Creatures
3 Academy Rector
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Deranged Hermit
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer



21 Other spells
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Collective Blessing
2 Diabolic Intent
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Humility
4 Lingering Souls
1 Null Profusion
1 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Planeswalkers
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Garruk Relentless


I'm not sure about the Deathrite Shamans tho, if i were to replace them, i'd get back 1 or probably 2 Deeds, and get rid of some Abrupt Decays

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

If the Olivia had stuck around, what impact do you think she would have had on the game? Assume that your opponent would have drawn the Verdict 2-3 turns in the future.

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Honestly, she probably would have just taken the game. iirc I had something to ping not far off (something of my own) that way I could have kept growing her. By the time she hit the board I was on like 10 mana (who needs damnation, ammiright?) and more importantly, at that point my opponent was at something like... 10 health? She gets there if she has a chance to.

Olivia seems also great against Confidants when facing BUG or Lingering Souls Tokens & other stuff. She's very often like a 4th Pernicious Deed I feel, to get rid of creatures and dominate the board.
I'm not sure if I want to cut the 2 Bonfires from my Scapewish deck for the next rather large tournament (200+/- players) for Abrupt Decays or additional ramp because they can be versatile and safe your ass in lot of situations (while Decay kills the fast rug's Delver always safely).
I guess the answer is to play 2 Olivias here? :)

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Originally Posted by Alexeezay

Olivia seems also great against Confidants when facing BUG or Lingering Souls Tokens & other stuff. She's very often like a 4th Pernicious Deed I feel, to get rid of creatures and dominate the board.
I'm not sure if I want to cut the 2 Bonfires from my Scapewish deck for the next rather large tournament (200+/- players) for Abrupt Decays or additional ramp because they can be versatile and safe your ass in lot of situations (while Decay kills the fast rug's Delver always safely).
I guess the answer is to play 2 Olivias here? :)

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It seems realistic to swap the 2 fires for 2 olivias. As I mentioned in my previous post they more or less serve the same person, if not for more damage out of Olivia.

Olivia: 4 mana, no need to worry about dead card on open and tossing a turn on miracle.

Bonfire: Assuming the same mana cost, your going to do a max of 1 damage from your hand, or 3 from the top deck. This may wipe the board a little better, but your swing with olivia will net you the same damage on the player.

From the above points forward, Olivia will pull ahead simply because 1) she can swing again, and 2) she can start target killing all the nasty stuff you don't want to deal with.

I will be the first to say that Bonfire was amazing just a few short weeks ago. However, with the metagame shift to BUG and Junk, Junk especially, it's very lackluster now. Junk's theats are just too damn beefy, and they run up to 3 Teegs in the sideboard (which you can bet they're going to bring in). Teeg already shuts down our Zeniths and half of our wishboard, to say nothing of Scapeshift itself. Switching out two dead cards (Bonfire being an X spell is uncastable) for two more ways to kill Teeg (or, more commonly, just steal their Knights and Goyfs) seems like the way to go. In a weenie-based or tribal-heavy meta, I would still opt for the Bonfires. However, as the meta shifts to the chunkier threats, I think Olivia will shine. I haven't had a chance to test much yet, but the few goldfishes I've done have left me disappointed in Volrath's Stronghold, still, again, whatever. The 4th Top is a little harder to judge. Has anyone with more spare time than me been able to form an opinion on that yet?

At this point I'm strongly leaning towards going with the pair of Olivias over the 4th Top and the Stronghold. The other option is to keep it at 1x Sakura-Tribe and keep the 4th Top.

Also, got a bit of a pimp dilemma. My Rector list is (work-in-progress) Jap foil/Korean nonfoil/German FBB duals/Guru basics. That being said, do I go for judge foil Natural Orders, or Korean Visions Natural Orders? I need to figure this out before Charlotte so I can get whichever ones I go for signed :P I'm leaning towards Korean, because I think that if the NOs were the only English foil cards in the entire deck, it would just drive me nuts. That said, the Moat is English, because that's the best I can do for it. Obviously pimping is per personal taste and so on, but do Korean NOs seem roughly "right" to you guys in fitting with my aesthetic, compared to the foils??

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

That said, the Moat is English, because that's the best I can do for it.

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I have never grokked this. It's like, for everything except Legends non-English = pimp. But Italian Legends aren't pimp. Why is that? (I personally have Italian Nethervoid, Karakas, and Moat for cost reasons, and Tabernacle for pack cracking luck reasons.)

Touching on Tabernacle, I've thought about throwing mine in the deck as a way to get a sac outlet but haven't for a few reasons. One, no way to tutor it up. Two, we ramp them too so the benefit of taxing opposing creatures is diminished. Three, I cannot convince myself to experiment w/ a card that expensive :) Maybe one can make a case for a single KotR to enable tutoring for a land toolbox of Karakas/Tabernacle/utility-land-of-choice though.

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Originally Posted by slikwilly

I have never grokked this. It's like, for everything except Legends non-English = pimp. But Italian Legends aren't pimp. Why is that? (I personally have Italian Nethervoid, Karakas, and Moat for cost reasons, and Tabernacle for pack cracking luck reasons.)

Touching on Tabernacle, I've thought about throwing mine in the deck as a way to get a sac outlet but haven't for a few reasons. One, no way to tutor it up. Two, we ramp them too so the benefit of taxing opposing creatures is diminished. Three, I cannot convince myself to experiment w/ a card that expensive :) Maybe one can make a case for a single KotR to enable tutoring for a land toolbox of Karakas/Tabernacle/utility-land-of-choice though.

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I think it's mostly because Italian is regarded as a singularly "un-pimp" language. I know a few people who actually prefer French or Italian because those are the languages that they took in high school (I took German in high school and in college, which is one reason why I love german cards as much as I do). But generally speaking, in the pimp community, Italian is regarded as hideous....as worse than English, in fact. Couple that with the various printing problems, as well, I THINK, that Italian Legends is more common or was more produced than English Legends (don't quote me on that), and thus, English Legends > Italian.

As for Tabby, I've thought of some kind of like Nic Fit Maverick hybrid with Knight of the Reliquary and an attending toolbox, but I think it'd be strictly worse than the token build that we're postulating currently, since both would involve essentially eschewing Deed. Rector in particular would love Tabby as an additional sac outlet, but the fact that it doesn't tap for mana is a serious concern in a ramp deck that prides itself on having more mana than the other guy. Some of it comes down to space, too. I've thought about trying a Crop Rotation package in the sideboard of Rector before, with like 2x Rotation, 1x Bog, 1x Karakas, 1x Tabby. But for all of that, you can have a NO package that's just better. It's a shame, really.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I will be the first to say that Bonfire was amazing just a few short weeks ago. However, with the metagame shift to BUG and Junk, Junk especially, it's very lackluster now. Junk's theats are just too damn beefy, and they run up to 3 Teegs in the sideboard (which you can bet they're going to bring in). Teeg already shuts down our Zeniths and half of our wishboard, to say nothing of Scapeshift itself. Switching out two dead cards (Bonfire being an X spell is uncastable) for two more ways to kill Teeg (or, more commonly, just steal their Knights and Goyfs) seems like the way to go. In a weenie-based or tribal-heavy meta, I would still opt for the Bonfires. However, as the meta shifts to the chunkier threats, I think Olivia will shine. I haven't had a chance to test much yet, but the few goldfishes I've done have left me disappointed in Volrath's Stronghold, still, again, whatever. The 4th Top is a little harder to judge. Has anyone with more spare time than me been able to form an opinion on that yet?

At this point I'm strongly leaning towards going with the pair of Olivias over the 4th Top and the Stronghold. The other option is to keep it at 1x Sakura-Tribe and keep the 4th Top.

Also, got a bit of a pimp dilemma. My Rector list is (work-in-progress) Jap foil/Korean nonfoil/German FBB duals/Guru basics. That being said, do I go for judge foil Natural Orders, or Korean Visions Natural Orders? I need to figure this out before Charlotte so I can get whichever ones I go for signed :P I'm leaning towards Korean, because I think that if the NOs were the only English foil cards in the entire deck, it would just drive me nuts. That said, the Moat is English, because that's the best I can do for it. Obviously pimping is per personal taste and so on, but do Korean NOs seem roughly "right" to you guys in fitting with my aesthetic, compared to the foils??

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I didn't even consider Olivia as a response to Teegs haha.


For the pimp dilemma. Do they not make foil korean cards??

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Korean Visions Natural Orders

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Viridia, for your list, - Deranged Hermit, + Garruk, Primal Hunter ?

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Viridia, for your list, - Deranged Hermit, + Garruk, Primal Hunter ?

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That might be a possibility, pumping out 4 4/4 or 5/5 tokens is quite awesome with Hermit tho ;) I'll have to test if i like the Hermit or not.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I think it's mostly because Italian is regarded as a singularly "un-pimp" language. I know a few people who actually prefer French or Italian because those are the languages that they took in high school (I took German in high school and in college, which is one reason why I love german cards as much as I do). But generally speaking, in the pimp community, Italian is regarded as hideous....as worse than English, in fact. Couple that with the various printing problems, as well, I THINK, that Italian Legends is more common or was more produced than English Legends (don't quote me on that), and thus, English Legends > Italian.

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Interesting. Were I into pimping my deck, I'd probably go w/ whatever language is not the traditional pimp language. I like things off the beaten path. Japanese seems to be the typical pimp of choice, so I'd avoid it. But I like my cards in English. And non-foil. Artist signatures though? That I am on board with :) (Looking forward to Denver which has Dan Frazier, Steve Argyle, Chris Rahn and Doug Shuler.)

SUP BLAYNE


Now that that's out of the way, I was hoping you guys could give me some pointers on LED Dredge. Arianrhod's primer only mentions what to therapy. Are there any other nifty tricks to take advantage of, or play lines to go after?

I'm considering bringing flat hate into my SB, because I know the MU exists within my meta.

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Originally Posted by Siiig

SUP BLAYNE


Now that that's out of the way, I was hoping you guys could give me some pointers on LED Dredge. Arianrhod's primer only mentions what to therapy. Are there any other nifty tricks to take advantage of, or play lines to go after?

I'm considering bringing flat hate into my SB, because I know the MU exists within my meta.

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LED Dredge is a rough matchup, especially for Scapewish. Rector's a little better situated because they basically can't beat Moat, and they -really- can't beat Humility -- though obviously it depends on the individual lists.

A lot of it depends on how batshit they go. If they have a slow start, we're in better shape because it gives us some time to set up a sacrifice to poof the Bridges, or to Slaughter Games something important (usually Dread Return). If they go like LED, LED, Breakthrough....yeah....you're probably fucked. Unfortunately, there is little that Scapewish can do. Sitting on a Deed to kill zombie tokens is good, remembering that you can poof bridges with Explorers (or, better, an instant-speed sacced Sakura-Tribe) is important....uh....yeah. If you open up the stone nuts and have a turn 3 kill then you're in good shape, I guess.

Note that you -could- probably fix the dredge matchup if you really wanted to, but it would probably compromise too much of the deck's other, more common matchups. Dredge is at a low-point overall right now due to Rest in Peace. If you have it locally then you might need to make some adjustments, but if you were to take the deck to a larger venue like a Mythic/Jupiter/SCG/GP/etc (scaling up in terms of size, obviously), I'd probably leave it alone and just accept that Dredge is a matchup you have to dodge.

Edit for REB/Pyroblast. They are useful here since they hit Breakthrough, Chain of Vapor, and can kill Narcomoebas. Not as much vs Manaless, but they're still money vs LED Dredge.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

LED Dredge is a rough matchup, especially for Scapewish. Rector's a little better situated because they basically can't beat Moat, and they -really- can't beat Humility -- though obviously it depends on the individual lists.

A lot of it depends on how batshit they go. If they have a slow start, we're in better shape because it gives us some time to set up a sacrifice to poof the Bridges, or to Slaughter Games something important (usually Dread Return). If they go like LED, LED, Breakthrough....yeah....you're probably fucked. Unfortunately, there is little that Scapewish can do. Sitting on a Deed to kill zombie tokens is good, remembering that you can poof bridges with Explorers (or, better, an instant-speed sacced Sakura-Tribe) is important....uh....yeah. If you open up the stone nuts and have a turn 3 kill then you're in good shape, I guess.

Note that you -could- probably fix the dredge matchup if you really wanted to, but it would probably compromise too much of the deck's other, more common matchups. Dredge is at a low-point overall right now due to Rest in Peace. If you have it locally then you might need to make some adjustments, but if you were to take the deck to a larger venue like a Mythic/Jupiter/SCG/GP/etc (scaling up in terms of size, obviously), I'd probably leave it alone and just accept that Dredge is a matchup you have to dodge.

Edit for REB/Pyroblast. They are useful here since they hit Breakthrough, Chain of Vapor, and can kill Narcomoebas. Not as much vs Manaless, but they're still money vs LED Dredge.

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Thanks a bunch for the info! I may try pulling in crypts into the board. I was actually talking to Kich867 earlier about it, and he had similar comments as you. Holding ritual in GY to snag bridges on my turn etc.

Also, for what it's worth, most other versions in my experience have a significanlt easier time with Dredge. I don't know if I've ever lost a sactioned match to Dredge with GB and have lost very very little in playtesting. As Arianrhod said, Rector also has an easier time with it. If Dredge is heavy in your meta, consider switching flavors.

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Standstill
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Forest
3 Swamp
3 Island
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Brainstorm
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Thragtusk
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Acidic Slime
2 Abrupt Decay

I was just reading about the idea of a Standstill list. I came up with this. I'm sure Primal Hunter wants a spot in here pretty badly but I'm not sure if the mana will work well enough, especially with factories. How do you guys feel about the split of brainstorm and top? I think I should probably be running more fetches but I'm not positive on that. Having any of the planeswalkers on the field and following it up with a standstill is amazing regardless though. They have to break it and you get more cards to just overwhelm them. I really love the idea of Standstill, I'm just not sure how to make it work.

Hey guys

Just saw Chris Higashi's Deck Tech from SCV Vegas 6th December : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4NfsXn8KiQ
Just was wondering if anyone else had tested Ifh Biff Efreet ? Which looks quite nice to me.

On another hand, I just reminded Elspeth Tirel ultimate, which is a sweeper/staller. Which means good in Nic Fit. Anyone tried it ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vilnico

Hey guys

Just saw Chris Higashi's Deck Tech from SCV Vegas 6th December : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4NfsXn8KiQ
Just was wondering if anyone else had tested Ifh Biff Efreet ? Which looks quite nice to me.

On another hand, I just reminded Elspeth Tirel ultimate, which is a sweeper/staller. Which means good in Nic Fit. Anyone tried it ?

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Ifh-Biff is a really nifty card. Would be good tech versus spirits. Ironically, since it deals damage to all players, it could also be good tech to deal a lot of damage.

Atleast in Scapeshift, we're already aiming to gain some life, no reason not to take advantage of that by shortening another players clock a little further.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Siiig

Ifh-Biff is a really nifty card. Would be good tech versus spirits. Ironically, since it deals damage to all players, it could also be good tech to deal a lot of damage.

Atleast in Scapeshift, we're already aiming to gain some life, no reason not to take advantage of that by shortening another players clock a little further.

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Well Higashi's list was BG only, so here it makes sense to have some remote "life beater", especially when it kills Jace very nicely. For example
G : to kill your idiot clique and/or spirits, and 1 into Jace
then Fly-Attack into Jace, then maybe 1 more G to finish Jace, or stack plenty of G to get him out.

Of course it hurts, but it basically it means GSZ kills Jace and stupid flying stuff.

I gave Collective Blessing a spin and ended up with this:


Creatures (13)
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Academy Rector

Spells (26)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lingering Souls
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Vindicate

2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

1 Bitterblossom
1 Attrition
1 Collective Blessing

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Relentless

Lands (21)
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
3 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Forest

Sideboard (15)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Memoricide
2 Extirpate
1 Rest in Peace
1 Choke
1 Humility
1 Nether Void
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Null Profusion
1 Sword of Feast and Famine


The strangest thing about this list is that it doesn't play much green. Sadly, I lost to most fair decks with this list because I didn't have Deed to split them in half and perhaps because most of them had Deathrite Shaman and knew how to use it. Also, I don't think it's possible to play an Explorer.dec without GSZ.

If this deck ever becomes viable, what should I name it? I think "Soul Collector" would catch on more but I am kinda leaning towards "Collective Suicide".

BUG:

I don't think that Standstill is the right choice for Nic Fit. Standstill is best in a different type of deck. It should be played with a lot of cheap answers, Force of Will being a prime example. You can keep the board empty with Force and Standstill lets you redraw the spent cards and create CA. Standstill wants lots of Removal and Counters to be at its best.

4 Brainstorm should be played without a doubt. You can run a few Tops to supplement it. Brainstorm is the by far best card in the format to begin with and it shines even more in a nonlinear deck like Nic Fit that plays situational cards like Ramp, Discard, Removal and heavy threats.

I see no reason to play Wickerbough Elder, Thrun or Acidic Slime. Just play more Thragtusks instead. With Deed and Decay there are enough solutions for Artifacts and Enchantments and Thrag is so much better than Slime/Elder that it isn't even funny. Same with Thrun: just run Thragtusk instead.

I really like Damnation. Instead of 4 Deed I would play 2 Deed and 2 Damnation. Damnation gets Tombstalker, plays around Stifle and is cheaper.

3 Jace is the minimum I think. Jace is the perfect card for the deck.


@Qweerios: Agreed on GSZ. Whenever I tried to go below 4 GSZ I failed miserably. I understand the motivation behind it but it has never worked out for me. Attrition is a really great idea. I'd say don't play Swords to Plowshares or DR Shaman, go with mass removal, GSZ and Abrupt Decay instead.

I am inclined to agree with Tao as well on the opinion that additional Thragtusk > Thrun and most bombs in general. Thragtusk is difficult to mitigate for most legacy decks and tossing in additional ones only buries our opponent deeper.

@Qweerios

I was curious as to your current BUG Gifts list? If you could post it, it would be nice so I have a starting point to start working on mine.

Hello Everyone sorry for the delay in posting anything on this forum, I am very busy during the weekdays with work, I noticed a lot of questions about my build and such.... First off the Nic Fit deck I played at SCG Vegas was really bad, I would not recommend playing it to anyone, I did like the Ifh-Biff Efreet though, He wreaks Jace and Clique. Sadly lots of decks are starting to play green, so he dies to himself often. Also I got lots of hate about the Silklash Spider, I put him in the list that morning because I kept getting crushed by Tombstalker, and I wanted an answer to he that could help me out in a few other areas (Kills Angel tokens, spirit tokens, etc.) The Spider was not that bad, but I wouldn't play he again either.

I played in the SCG Invitational the following week and I really wanted to play Nic Fit, but my teammates told me to play a "Real" deck, so I played BUG control to a lousy top 64 place (I should have played Nic Fit). The following day I played in the SCG LA Open, Here is a quick report and decklist;

Nic Fit (Rector)
3 Academy Rector
2 Baneslayer Angel
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Sun Titan
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Vindicate
1 Eldrazi Conscription
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Moat
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Chains of Mephistopeles
1 Cranial Extraction
3 Extirpate
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Humility
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nether Void
1 Strangleroot Geist

Round 1: Ariane (5-color infect)
G1: Ariane is a young kid from SoCal, he tells me this is his first event and his mom is standing behind him watching him play. He wins the die roll and decides to play first, he leads with a City of Brass and a Duty Bound Dead!!!! I think wow, "Bye" I have a solid hand with Rector, therapy, deed, witness and a couple lands. Ariane plays blighted agent on two, and then kills me on three with an assortment of pump spells on his infect dude, WTF!!! I lost to a kid playing Duty Bound Dead???
G2: I play first, cast therapy, calling blighted agent, hit.... see hand full of pump spells, I turn 2 explorer, set up deed, and proceed to kill his hand and smash with big dudes, I don't thing Ariane played a single spell.
G3: I keep an opener of; Decay, deed, explorer, therapy, and 3 lands... Wow perfect. Ariane plays a turn 1 plague stinger off of a 5-color land and a lotus petal, I play therapy, calling vines, I hit, see a hand of pump spells.... Ariane takes his turn, swings at me pumps a bunch and I am dead!!!! To top it off Mom, who's been watching tells Ariane good job winning, can I buy you some dual lands???? Dagger! 0-1

Round 2: John Peacock (Junk)
I don't have many notes on this game, I just have my life total not changing very much, and his life total going to zero twice.
1-1

Round 3: Dane (U/W Stoneblade)
Dane was playing U/W Stoneblade with Spellstutter Sprite, he made a few game errors that let me that really let me dominate the game...i.e. trying to counter a GSZ for 1 with a lone Sprite. Like John last round I didn't take too many notes and my life sheet shows me going to 18 both games off of fetchlands and him scooping when I played Eldrazi conscription on a creature.
2-1

Round 4. Josh (Burn)
G1: Josh come out of the gates on fire, bolt, chain, hellspark, flame rift, fireblast... Toasty...
G2: I turn 1 DRS, turn 2 explorer with Tower, drop rector, turn 3 sac rector, conscript the DRS, GG.
G3: We have a long drawn out game where i'm on the backfoot the whole time, I am forced to Fetters his land, and try and scrap by with DRS eating dudes, Josh misses on a bunch of triggers (Keldon Marauders, Vortex) that kept my life higher then i should have been, I ran him out of cards and beatdown with witness and DRS.
3-1

Round 5. Zac Meza (Belcher)
G1: I know Zac, we game together and I loan him decks for FNM, I know he is on Belcher, I win the die roll, yes! I might be able to win a game, I therapy him on 1 for Belcher, I get 1, He has a bunch of ramp and Empty... He takes his turn makes a ton of Goblins, I take my turn cast Explorer flashback therapy, play Deed, let him take his turn, I deed the board, proceed to win via dudes. Wow...
G2. Zac snap keeps makes 12 goblins and says go, I play an explorer, Zac swings I block, get 2 lands, take my turn and pulse his board, 2 turns later I play Nether Void and seal the game with Titan and Deed.
4-1

Round 6: Billy (U/W/G/B Super Greedy Good Stuff Deck)
G1: Billy is playing a really Greedy deck with Stifle, wasteland, Bob, Force, Geist of Saint Traft, and Goyf, I think he has some Planeswalkers too, but I never see them. I out ramp him game 1 with Explorer and play a Sigarda and bash each turn for 5, He plays some dudes that die to Deed, he's never really in the game.
G2. I board out the Explorers and bring in Carpet of flowers, we have a pretty close game but I manage to drain him down with DRS and beatdown with Sigarda.
5-1

Round 7:Andy (Dreadstill)
G1: Andy brought back a classic deck from Legacy's past, He played a turn 1 Scalding Tarn cracked it for a Volcanic and Brainstormed and passed, I played a Therapy in the blind, I thought he might be on "Sneak and Show" so I named Show and Tell, I saw a Phyrexian Dreadnought, Grim Lavamancer, Standstill, Daze, Mishra's Factory, and a Force.Andy takes his turn and plays Mishra's and Standstill. I am forced to break the standstill or die to the Mishra's, I never draw a Deed or any other action, Dreadnought eventually lands and I get trampled to death.
G2. I get to go first, I manage to put a threat down before he can play Standstill, I land a Moat and Humility and he is out of the game I sandbag a Sigarda and put a Conscription on her, Vindicate my Humility and Swing in for Victory.
G3: I got destroyed by a turn 2 Dreadnought and I couldn't draw a deed or decay.
5-2

Round 8: Joe (U/W Miracles)
G1: I'm on the beatdown with a turn 4 Sigarda, off of Explorer mana, and I'm holding off his Batterskull with a moat. I swing in for the death blow, he Brainstorms into Entreat blocks my Sigarda and smashes my face in. I hate Miracles.
G2. Game goes back and forth, he out draws me with back to back Jace the Mind Sculptors.
5-3

Round 9: Jim Davis (Goblins)
G1: Jim is a well know East Coast Goblin player, he's on the play and lands a Vial, I Therapy him for Ringleader, hit. He has Lackey, War Marshall, Gempalm plus a Mountain. I see his hand and know he has no way of winning, I play Veteran, Therapy again discover he only plays 3 basics due to his lack of finding a second Mountain. I play Deed, and a few turns later I land a Sun Titan and have recurring Deed.
G2: Jim has the gas, Lackey into Ringleader, into more goblins, into death.
G3: Similar to the first game, I out class him with double Explorer and double Therapy, He has no hand and is looking at me like "How can I be losing to this pile of Cube cards" I smash him with Sun Titan and Deed again.
6-3

Placed in the money... I felt like the games I lost could have been won by a Deed or a Decay (I'll have to think about that going into the future). I really liked this list and I'll most likely play it in Denver plus and extra Deed somewhere.

Props to Starcitygames running a fantastic event, Jason Hughes for lending my team some cards, Brian Page for the fantastic Standard list, Veteran Explorer for being a Boss, and Arianrhod for keeping up with this deck I look at your list for a base and expand from there.
Slops to Deed for not showing up when I need you.

I'm off from work for a couple weeks for the holiday, so feel free to shoot me any questions about the deck or sideboarding.

@ Higashi, would you play Conscription again? Was Strangleroot Geist ever relevant (or did you ever use the sideboard copy)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greenpoe

@ Higashi, would you play Conscription again? Was Strangleroot Geist ever relevant (or did you ever use the sideboard copy)?

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The Conscription was great, it gave me a quick clock that i could rector for, i swung in on turn 3 a couple of times with a suited up DRS, the geist was really good at surprise attacking planeswalkers, i did side the other one in, once against the goblins player (i wanted more blockers) and against the control decks with wrath effects and jaces.

Conscription is awesome. You sniff a weakness, you kill. It seems too vulnerable in theory, but with the recursive back up plans this deck has, hey, you got 10+ life... Againt other decks, wtf are they going to do to it? As a bonus, it utterly mauls combo decks' measly board positions.

@Higashi

That conscription was really awesome indeed.. works against s&t decks too if u have a creature in play that is

1. I'm wondering how you feel about the yosei/recurring nightmare lock. Seems like you didn't get it to work this tournament but in general, do you think they deserve a spot in this deck? Or might it just be better to add 2x decay or something?

2. Planeswalkers. I always try to play a few of them in my nic fit decks because of their synergy with deed. Elspeth gives flying to your ground creatures which could be relevant if you have Moat in play. Garruk Relentless seems very good too. Liliana?

@ Higashi

First of all, i'm longtime lurker, playing BG Nic Fit for a long time. I was wondering how DRS worked out for you? Which function did you used the most?

I was planning to play DRS myself, so I'm very curious about your opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by litenkatt

@Higashi

That conscription was really awesome indeed.. works against s&t decks too if u have a creature in play that is

1. I'm wondering how you feel about the yosei/recurring nightmare lock. Seems like you didn't get it to work this tournament but in general, do you think they deserve a spot in this deck? Or might it just be better to add 2x decay or something?

2. Planeswalkers. I always try to play a few of them in my nic fit decks because of their synergy with deed. Elspeth gives flying to your ground creatures which could be relevant if you have Moat in play. Garruk Relentless seems very good too. Liliana?

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If my Highlander (!=EDH, I mean sane Magic) deck that's basically Rector-Fit is any indication - it seems to mirror Nic Fit trends thus far - the Yosei lock isn't really needed. What is good are instant kill conditions like Hulk combo and Conscription, recursive beaters (primarily Titan and the Twin Towers and lifegain dorks), hexproof beaters, the newer Garruk iterations (though Elspeth can be fine - small tokens seem comparably better in Legacy). It's different for you, but a small equipment package has been working wonders for me vs. control. That's probably due to having a lot of small dudes instead of Veteran-Therapy, though. In Legacy I'd just pack more Garruks I think.

Since I have been requested lists for my Nic Fit decks more than usual as of late, I decided to post them in my Sig the same way Arianrhod did. I posted the lists that brought me the most success so far over the past year. I posted all of the lists on the same page for those interested in knowing how I build my Nic Fit decks as you are likely to detect patterns across the different lists. It currently contains my 3 BUG Fit decks, my straight BG list with Prime Titan, and my latest Rector list.

My next addition will probably be a Jarad's Order list now that Loyal Retainer is affordable. The Jarad version will definitely be more aggro-oriented too. The deck will definitely play Genesis/Shriekmaw and a number of Lilianas but I am still unsure about which Legend would be the most appropriate. I think Iona is the best choice but Grisselbrand, Sheoldred, and Elesh Norn are all very tempting.

@qweerios:

I do not think Jarad's Orders is good enough. Compare it to Gifts Ungiven. Gifts does everything better - remember that you don't have to find 4 cards. So if you want to reanimate something it gets you Unburial Rites + the same legend that Retainers would get you (or a nonlegend unlike Orders). On top of that it goes at Instant speed and of course it has the gigantic upside that you can also play it as a value card and use it to find solutions.


That said, I also do not think that Gifts Ungiven is good enough without a combo involved. I'd much rather have Jace for the same Mana so that I impact the board directly but that is debatable.

This is my current test list for reference:

http://pastebin.com/aSxuZ3Y2

Just a quick question.

Can Academy Rectors ability can be shut down by Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze remove from graveyard ability? Because the judge says here in our place, when Rector hits the graveyard and instantly removed by Deathrite / Scavenging Ooze immediately, the owner of Academy Rector can no longer search for an Enchantment that can be put on play. Someone enlightened me. Thanks. :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kabards

Just a quick question.

Can Academy Rectors ability can be shut down by Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze remove from graveyard ability? Because the judge says here in our place, when Rector hits the graveyard and instantly removed by Deathrite / Scavenging Ooze immediately, the owner of Academy Rector can no longer search for an Enchantment that can be put on play. Someone enlightened me. Thanks. :cool:

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The judge is correct.

They can remove it while the trigger is on the stack. Upon resolution, there is nothing there to remove and therefore, you can't do anything.

I am shamed: I lost to my friend's mostly-white casual Rebel deck with Dig Fit. I mean . . . how can I describe it? It was just a struggle to stabilize because of the Swords/O-Rings, his absurd amount of basic lands with Mirror Entity, the aggro assault that somehow he kept recovering even after Deed, Therapy, and Pulse.

Makes me wonder how unwinnable Death and Taxes, Deadguy Ale, and other white-weenie decks are?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barook

The judge is correct.

They can remove it while the trigger is on the stack. Upon resolution, there is nothing there to remove and therefore, you can't do anything.

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It's worth noting also that I have encountered players who also thought the same of Veteran Explorer. The important part of the card text is that Academy Rector says, "If you do" while Explorer does not. What it amounts to though, is Rector needs to exile itself to work. If something else exiles it, it does not work. Explorer has no such limitation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

It was just a struggle to stabilize because of the Swords/O-Rings

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Exile effects are definitely annoying. If you know they're on Plowshares or Path then you need to play around them. 1) Name those things with Therapy. 2) Don't run out an Explorer unless you have a sac outlet at the ready. Phyrexian Tower is great because you can use it at any time. But you can also Flashback your Therapy. Your line of play should be cast Therapy. Cast Veteran Explorer. After it resolves do not pass priority! Flashback Therapy.