[Deck] 12 Post

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

My testing with Ugin got me thinking a lot more about Haven of the Spirit Dragon. In a Loam-based shell, you would be able to dredge into Ugin and recur him indefinitely (subject to graveyard hate). The problem with Loam, of course, is that it doesn't play nicely with Eldrazi graveyard triggers. The interaction seems powerful enough, however, that it's got me brewing. In essence, I ended up borrowing a lot of elements from Lands, although with recurrable finishers that take advantage of 12 Post's massive mana advantage. This is still a very rough draft, but I'd love some constructive criticism on how to make this work.


2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan

4 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
2 Intuition

1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
1 Academy Ruins
2 Tolaria West
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Dark Depths
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Maze of Ith
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
3 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest


Sideboard

1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Flusterstorm
1 Sacred Ground
1 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog

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This is soooooo dope! I'm testing this asap.

Probably the most "deep end" build I've brewed sofar. Here is Dragonpost:

// Lands
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
3 [FUT] Grove of the Burnwillows
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [BD] Island (2)
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [R] Taiga
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [TSP] Forest (1)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
4 [OD] Moment's Peace
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [CNS] Dack Fayden
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [BNG] Kiora, the Crashing Wave
4 [NE] Accumulated Knowledge
2 [DOT] Sarkhan Unbroken
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 [SOK] Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 3 [UL] Crop Rotation


no dragons were involved or harmed in the building of this deck.

Plenty of tuning to happen here. Fow could easily be sb'd with crop and 1-2 utility lands main'd. That is probably the better build, but I am enjoying testing this preboarded version.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Probably the most "deep end" build I've brewed sofar. Here is Dragonpost:

// Lands
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
3 [FUT] Grove of the Burnwillows
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [BD] Island (2)
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [R] Taiga
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [TSP] Forest (1)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
4 [OD] Moment's Peace
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [CNS] Dack Fayden
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [BNG] Kiora, the Crashing Wave
4 [NE] Accumulated Knowledge
2 [DOT] Sarkhan Unbroken
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 [SOK] Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 3 [UL] Crop Rotation


no dragons were involved or harmed in the building of this deck.

Plenty of tuning to happen here. Fow could easily be sb'd with crop and 1-2 utility lands main'd. That is probably the better build, but I am enjoying testing this preboarded version.

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Where's Intuition? I can fetch plenty of juicy combos. It seems like a natural fit. Be it AK, or multiple Moment's Peace for 4 turns of stalling or various combos.

I would include at least 1 Life from the Loam as Intuition target, alongside 1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon for inevitability.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Probably the most "deep end" build I've brewed sofar. Here is Dragonpost:

no dragons were involved or harmed in the building of this deck.

Plenty of tuning to happen here. Fow could easily be sb'd with crop and 1-2 utility lands main'd. That is probably the better build, but I am enjoying testing this preboarded version.

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Boom! This is definitely pretty far off deep end lol. But, I see these spicy options as your way to achieve a similar game plan to what I've also arrived at recently: Safe, though potentially disadvantageous early control elements, followed by bombs. However, ideally those bombs can both restore advantage, AND pose a threat - because turns 1-2 is about not dying & 3-4-5 is about still not dying and something besides of the top of the deck needs to bring you there. Planeswalkers,by nature, fit the bill very well in this follow-up role.

For me I've accepted that Cruise meta is totally gone, and Legacy can be very diverse and broken - so FOW is too attractive and powerful to ignore. Losing early advantage and relying on resolving a Titan/Ugin (One of ~6 actual threats in popular lists lately) is not strong enough, especially if you need to also hedge against potential card advantage battles in MUs such as BUG. So, I've gotten back on the Trinket made plan to fulfill this role of recovery/Tutor-Threat. He is a little PW that is like 2U, put a 2/2 in & then tutor for defense (map,EE), advantage (top), or offense (map, candle). Very versatile and fills those same roles as the PWs available. Very synergistic with FOW. Blocks. Further, I've also been looking at PWs too, particularly Jace and Kiora, but I haven't had enough trials. DRS (damn another in that PW role haha) has also been testing super well.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

// Planeswalkers
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [CNS] Dack Fayden
2 [BNG] Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 [DOT] Sarkhan Unbroken

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Holy mother of planeswalkers, Batman! I feel as though not playing Jace, the Mind Sculptor is just silly once you've reached this level of mana intensity. He is stronger than all of those but Ugin for sure.

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

My testing with Ugin got me thinking a lot more about Haven of the Spirit Dragon. In a Loam-based shell, you would be able to dredge into Ugin and recur him indefinitely (subject to graveyard hate). The problem with Loam, of course, is that it doesn't play nicely with Eldrazi graveyard triggers. The interaction seems powerful enough, however, that it's got me brewing. In essence, I ended up borrowing a lot of elements from Lands, although with recurrable finishers that take advantage of 12 Post's massive mana advantage. This is still a very rough draft, but I'd love some constructive criticism on how to make this work.

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Stop using your Jedi mind powers to read my mind! Been working on BUG-Post lists as of late and came up with a few new ways to deal with pesky Delver of Secrets while conveniently also dealing with True-Name Nemesis, Elves, and other one toughtness creatures. Turns out 3/7 flying hexproof creatures are difficult to handle.

// Planeswalkers (2)
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Creatures (8)
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1 Trinket Mage
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Primeval Titan

// Spells (19)
4 Life from the Loam
4 Exploration
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Intuition
3 Crop Rotation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Candelabra of Tawnos

// "Spell"/Utility Lands (11)
3 Maze of Ith
1 Tolaria West
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Academy Ruins
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon

// Mana Producing Lands (20)
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Thespian's Stage
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Forest

// Sideboard (15)
3 Flusterstorm
3 Swan Song
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Seal of Primordium
2 Pithing Needle
1 Memory's Journey
2 Moment's Peace

Sweet deck! Do you think Haven of the Spirit Dragon is worth it? Maybe you can get more value out of Cavern in it's place. But then again, Ugin piles for Intuiton sound really sweet :)

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Originally Posted by Kirika

@MaCHOOga
Interesting running maindeck Force without Treasure Cruise. Is 16 blue cards enough for Forces?

I like Force less without Treasure Cruise to make up for the card disadvantage or is there lots of combo in your meta? There is a decent amount of combo at my local store.

Guess you didn't like Fact or Fiction?

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I <3 Fact or Fiction. My only issue with it is it can occasionally put you in super awkward situations. Basically it turns into a game of chicken.
For example, You're two piles are pile 1: brainstorm x2, fetchland, tropical island & pile 2: primetime.

You can untap and cast primetime, but if they have a Force, you loose.

You can take the hand of card advantage and vastly improve your card selection for the rest of the game.

I took the card advantage hand. I brain stormed, shuffled, brainstormed and never saw a threat. I lost that game.

@ RockLee & @ TomHarding
I like the idea of splashy planeswalkers, but isn't it stressing on the manabases? Kiora & Sarkhan are awesome, but it also requires 2x on-color lands. There's never a guarantee you will be able to cast them, right? Have you tried Innistrad Garruk? Other than not being able to pitch to FoW, he seems like he has game against delver decks.

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Originally Posted by Philipp2293

Sweet deck! Do you think Haven of the Spirit Dragon is worth it? Maybe you can get more value out of Cavern in it's place. But then again, Ugin piles for Intuiton sound really sweet :)

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I think it is important to have a way to Loam and get still back Ugin. That paired with Intuition and the ability to just repeatedly get back Ugin if it dies every other turn is pretty strong. If you add cycling lands or Horizon Canopy somewhere you can even make it every turn.

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

My testing with Ugin got me thinking a lot more about Haven of the Spirit Dragon. In a Loam-based shell, you would be able to dredge into Ugin and recur him indefinitely (subject to graveyard hate). The problem with Loam, of course, is that it doesn't play nicely with Eldrazi graveyard triggers. The interaction seems powerful enough, however, that it's got me brewing. In essence, I ended up borrowing a lot of elements from Lands, although with recurrable finishers that take advantage of 12 Post's massive mana advantage. This is still a very rough draft, but I'd love some constructive criticism on how to make this work.


2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan

4 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
2 Intuition

1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
1 Academy Ruins
2 Tolaria West
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Dark Depths
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Maze of Ith
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
3 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest


Sideboard

1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Flusterstorm
1 Sacred Ground
1 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog

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This list looks sick. I think you want some number of crop rotation too.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Probably the most "deep end" build I've brewed sofar. Here is Dragonpost:


2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [CNS] Dack Fayden
2 [BNG] Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 [DOT] Sarkhan Unbroken

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Originally Posted by winglerw28

Holy mother of planeswalkers, Batman! I feel as though not playing Jace, the Mind Sculptor is just silly once you've reached this level of mana intensity. He is stronger than all of those but Ugin for sure.

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If you're going Superfriends and Cloudpost, I'm surprised there's no Karn Liberated because he's the precision scalpel of Superfriends, and I agree Wingler: Jace is Jace. Of course, there's also Tezzeret, Tamiyo, Ral Zarek, Garruk Wildspeaker, and Xenagos the Reveler which all have different considerations as well, but what you have is a strong core at least when it comes to walkers (although I'm not entirely sure about Kiora).


By the way, the run of the mill strategy for Superfriends is to ramp out Planeswalkers, cast Obliterate (or something similar), then win off the surviving planeswalkers. That might be a better path than Emrakul, which seems out of place with Eye of Ugin to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

If you're going Superfriends and Cloudpost, I'm surprised there's no Karn Liberated because he's the precision scalpel of Superfriends, and I agree Wingler: Jace is Jace. Of course, there's also Tezzeret, Tamiyo, Ral Zarek, Garruk Wildspeaker, and Xenagos the Reveler which all have different considerations as well, but this is a strong core at least when it comes to walkers.


By the way, the run of the mill strategy for Superfriends is to ramp out Planeswalkers, cast Obliterate (or something similar), then win off the surviving planeswalkers. That might be a better path than Emrakul, which seems out of place with Eye of Ugin to be honest.

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this deck is so far off the deep end i swear someone just suggested obliterate.... obliterate is a dead card most of the time especially with no reliable way to tutor for it. If you want to play planes walker ramp, i'd suggest a bunch of different builds that reflected someone thing more like nic fit. if you are using the locus lands the real benefit comes from the unstoppable force of eldrazi...

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Originally Posted by apple713

this deck is so far off the deep end i swear someone just suggested obliterate.... obliterate is a dead card most of the time especially with no reliable way to tutor for it. If you want to play planes walker ramp, i'd suggest a bunch of different builds that reflected someone thing more like nic fit. if you are using the locus lands the real benefit comes from the unstoppable force of eldrazi...

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I agree lol this thread is starting to read like the nic fit one...

I can't take the last ~20 posts seriously, sorry ^^ Sure, there have to be some new ideas and innovations in order to improve the deck. But for me it's no longer TE / 12 Post (with 10 posts...).

With all those planewlakers around here I think a 1-off Contagion Engine could be funny. Scaling up PWs + killing annoying creatures (albeit slowly) seems worth testing...

I can see the last ~20 posts as preparation for april's fool ^_^

Sorry guys, guess we will go back to netdecking and never trying anything interesting or fun. :tongue:

If you're trying to win for sure, build a deck that has a high win percentage and tournament results. I know I don't play post because I'm a huge spike.

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Originally Posted by winglerw28

Sorry guys, guess we will go back to netdecking and never trying anything interesting or fun. :tongue:

If you're trying to win for sure, build a deck that has a high win percentage and tournament results. I know I don't play post because I'm a huge spike.

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Im all for innovation but there cones a point when the deck is so differrnt its not really recognizable as its original. By all means innovate but keep in kind your suggestion may throw it into a different category. A deck is generally defined by its recognizability and its matchups. So When an experienced legacy player has trouble recognizing your deck and the matchups become considerably different it may be time to rebrand. Consider this. There are 3x seperate forums for what was once, and is still, recognized by most as 43 lands. 3x seperate threads for the same pos deck.. But whatever makes em happy right?

I think saying that the decks being created being drastically different from the core strategy of the "Turbo Eldrazi" plan is reasonable. Minor changes like going from 12 to 9-10 posts has been pretty standard, but splashes haven't.

A derivative deck has to start somewhere, however. Are we supposed to make a "I'm not sure what this is but want feedback from people who have no experience with post" thread? I'm totally fine moving to a new thread if enough people want it, but I dislike people jumping on the bandwagon of deriding a modified list simply because it is different. Coming in and saying that these lists look like a joke could come off as hostile towards new people trying to look at the deck - "I think we should focus more on the core strategy we had before, we are likely trying to be too cute with what we are doing" is a lot more useful and constructive than the hidden message of "This is unacceptable and totally different than what I expected and looks really bad!".

The post strategy is all about inevitability, resilience, ramp, and giant monsters/planeswalkers. Some of the lists might be wonky, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily a fundamentally different strategy.

Edit: For clarity, this isn't targeted at you specifically, nor am I saying that you are being unreasonable or rude or anything. I just wanted to push the point that we should have more meaningful reasoning when trying to show why we don't agree with any given post.

Has anyone tested Tower of the Magistrate as a Crop Rotatable way to deal with Batterskull and (to a lesser extent) other problematic equipment? Currently, I've added one to my sideboard that I trade out with Mikokoro.

I know that with Repeal, Batterskull isn't typically a huge problem but it never hurts to eke out every little advantage that you can.

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Originally Posted by AppendixG

Has anyone tested Tower of the Magistrate as a Crop Rotatable way to deal with Batterskull and (to a lesser extent) other problematic equipment? Currently, I've added one to my sideboard that I trade out with Mikokoro.

I know that with Repeal, Batterskull isn't typically a huge problem but it never hurts to eke out every little advantage that you can.

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don't need it. also Maze of ith is just better.

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Originally Posted by winglerw28

I think saying that the decks being created being drastically different from the core strategy of the "Turbo Eldrazi" plan is reasonable. Minor changes like going from 12 to 9-10 posts has been pretty standard, but splashes haven't.

A derivative deck has to start somewhere, however. Are we supposed to make a "I'm not sure what this is but want feedback from people who have no experience with post" thread? I'm totally fine moving to a new thread if enough people want it, but I dislike people jumping on the bandwagon of deriding a modified list simply because it is different. Coming in and saying that these lists look like a joke could come off as hostile towards new people trying to look at the deck - "I think we should focus more on the core strategy we had before, we are likely trying to be too cute with what we are doing" is a lot more useful and constructive than the hidden message of "This is unacceptable and totally different than what I expected and looks really bad!".

The post strategy is all about inevitability, resilience, ramp, and giant monsters/planeswalkers. Some of the lists might be wonky, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily a fundamentally different strategy.

Edit: For clarity, this isn't targeted at you specifically, nor am I saying that you are being unreasonable or rude or anything. I just wanted to push the point that we should have more meaningful reasoning when trying to show why we don't agree with any given post.

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I agree with this. As far as thread goes, I think the best approach is to consider what is 'core', what are the 'threats', and what techniques/lines of play are best to get around those threats. For me the core of the deck is titan, eldrazi, and posts. All online, I first played the Top 8 Murata list, then the Mono-Green list and for the last 4-6 months have been testing the list I posted some pages back. Many people have debuted their own lists, which are all variable being influenced by individual playstyle and local meta's. However, I would say that despite this all lists are attempts to overcome a host of threats that are overall persistent, fairly constant and more or less unchanging. In other words the top threats that dominate the format are generally the same, and consequently are the most played. Delver, reanimator, omni, MUD, storm, are in my experience the most difficult. Why? I think the answer is ultra-fast combos, land destruction, and control. These are in sharp contrast to post which is generally a slow deck, heavily reliant on its lands, and has few threats that are fairly expensive. I would like to see this thread take the approach of identifying common threat themes and strategies/cards that work well against those themes. For instance in addition to 3x crop rotation, I play 4x stifles because it does land protection, can be used offensively, and has a variety of utilities (storm). Beginning a match my ideal starting hand would have a tropical/island with one or more land protection in hand, maybe a post or fow. After the draw, we can talk about surviving the next couple of turns against specific decks, and most importantly, weakpoints of the build and how to cover them.

I also get the impression that post is somewhat spread out, as if the core is too small, and not well fortified by multiple copies of support (1 cavern, 3x SNT). Thus 4 titans, 8-12 posts, 3 eldrazi and requisite green mana only accounts for a little over 1/3 of the deck. I do think that resolving titan is the surest path to victory.

Titan in hand, mana to play it, resolving it by turn 4 or having an impervious strategy to stay alive (against combo) until it does.

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Originally Posted by Ponders

I agree with this. As far as thread goes, I think the best approach is to consider what is 'core', what are the 'threats', and what techniques/lines of play are best to get around those threats. For me the core of the deck is titan, eldrazi, and posts. All online, I first played the Top 8 Murata list, then the Mono-Green list and for the last 4-6 months have been testing the list I posted some pages back. Many people have debuted their own lists, which are all variable being influenced by individual playstyle and local meta's. However, I would say that despite this all lists are attempts to overcome a host of threats that are overall persistent, fairly constant and more or less unchanging. In other words the top threats that dominate the format are generally the same, and consequently are the most played. Delver, reanimator, omni, MUD, storm, are in my experience the most difficult. Why? I think the answer is ultra-fast combos, land destruction, and control. These are in sharp contrast to post which is generally a slow deck, heavily reliant on its lands, and has few threats that are fairly expensive. I would like to see this thread take the approach of identifying common threat themes and strategies/cards that work well against those themes. For instance in addition to 3x crop rotation, I play 4x stifles because it does land protection, can be used offensively, and has a variety of utilities (storm). Beginning a match my ideal starting hand would have a tropical/island with one or more land protection in hand, maybe a post or fow. After the draw, we can talk about surviving the next couple of turns against specific decks, and most importantly, weakpoints of the build and how to cover them.

I also get the impression that post is somewhat spread out, as if the core is too small, and not well fortified by multiple copies of support (1 cavern, 3x SNT). Thus 4 titans, 8-12 posts, 3 eldrazi and requisite green mana only accounts for a little over 1/3 of the deck. I do think that resolving titan is the surest path to victory.

Titan in hand, mana to play it, resolving it by turn 4 or having an impervious strategy to stay alive (against combo) until it does.

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Well put. I agree with comments on the core of the deck.

I'm also about to try stifle! I think that's a pretty nifty addition no one would expect. The fact that it also hits wasteland is excellent too. I'm dreaming of hitting a craterhoof trigger.. What else do you target often?

Stifle sounds great! Countering Wasteland is great, but Stifle on Fetchland would be great as well, since most decks won't be able to sac a Wasteland in the next 2-3 turns after they have already lost a land... Second big target would be Planeswalker ultimates, especially Lilly :-D

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

Well put. I agree with comments on the core of the deck.

I'm also about to try stifle! I think that's a pretty nifty addition no one would expect. The fact that it also hits wasteland is excellent too. I'm dreaming of hitting a craterhoof trigger.. What else do you target often?

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Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster mage, Batterskull, wasteland, tendrils of agony, fetchlands, knight of the reliquary, aether vial, kuldotha forge master, narcomeoba, eldrazi triggers, grisselbrand, jin gitaxis, goblin lackey, helm of obedience, phyrexian dreadnaught.


so i guess if you are worried about ETB effects, storm, or gaining tempo against fetch land use its good. Also, if you are running trinket make and decide to include stifle, 1 of phyrexian dreadnought isn't bad for a 1 of inclusion.

after googling this someone suggested putting stifle on a scepter...not the worst idea i ever heard but probably not recommended for this deck.

****EDIT : Stifle hits miracle triggers too.

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Originally Posted by apple713

Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster mage, Batterskull, wasteland, tendrils of agony, fetchlands, knight of the reliquary, aether vial, kuldotha forge master, narcomeoba, eldrazi triggers, grisselbrand, jin gitaxis, goblin lackey, helm of obedience, phyrexian dreadnaught.

so i guess if you are worried about ETB effects, storm, or gaining tempo against fetch land use its good. Also, if you are running trinket make and decide to include stifle, 1 of phyrexian dreadnought isn't bad for a 1 of inclusion.

after googling this someone suggested putting stifle on a scepter...not the worst idea i ever heard but probably not recommended for this deck.

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Storm! You are absolutely wright! Great idea to have an out against storm main

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

Well put. I agree with comments on the core of the deck.

I'm also about to try stifle! I think that's a pretty nifty addition no one would expect. The fact that it also hits wasteland is excellent too. I'm dreaming of hitting a craterhoof trigger.. What else do you target often?

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Trickbind has been one of my pet cards for quite a while. While it does cost an additional mana, I find the fact that I can guarantee it will resolve to be a great boon. It can also be a one-shot surprise against Sneak and Skill players as you can keep them from using extra red mana to just activate again.

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Originally Posted by apple713

Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster mage, Batterskull, wasteland, tendrils of agony, fetchlands, knight of the reliquary, aether vial, kuldotha forge master, narcomeoba, eldrazi triggers, grisselbrand, jin gitaxis, goblin lackey, helm of obedience, phyrexian dreadnaught.

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You missed a few...Delver of Secrets, any miracle trigger, equip costs, etc. :-D At it's core, stifle is basically a tempo card which could be sufficient enough to buy time. Time is what 12post needs to win, so it might be worthwhile checking out. The surprise factor is also totally worth it!

One can assume that storm would have cabal therapy/duress/gitaxian probe'd you so they would have knowledge of the stifle. They should be able to play around it, however, its another hoop they have to jump through to achieve victory.

You haven't lived until you stifle a kuldotha forge master.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Probably the most "deep end" build I've brewed sofar. Here is Dragonpost:

// Lands
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
3 [FUT] Grove of the Burnwillows
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [BD] Island (2)
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [R] Taiga
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [TSP] Forest (1)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
4 [OD] Moment's Peace
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [CNS] Dack Fayden
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [BNG] Kiora, the Crashing Wave
4 [NE] Accumulated Knowledge
2 [DOT] Sarkhan Unbroken
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 [SOK] Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 3 [UL] Crop Rotation


no dragons were involved or harmed in the building of this deck.

Plenty of tuning to happen here. Fow could easily be sb'd with crop and 1-2 utility lands main'd. That is probably the better build, but I am enjoying testing this preboarded version.

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Can you provide some guidelines as to your choices? it's been a while since I played thus seeing so many colored walkers is really new for me. If you're going so overboard with the walkers, Eureka might be an idea. I remember you playing SnT after all.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

You missed a few... lion's Eye Diamond.

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People should get their shit together with this Stifling mana abilities thing. This is surprisingly common misconcept.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

You missed a few...Delver of Secrets, any miracle trigger, equip costs, lion's Eye Diamond. :-D At it's core, stifle is basically a tempo card which could be sufficient enough to buy time. Time is what 12post needs to win, so it might be worthwhile checking out. The surprise factor is also totally worth it!

One can assume that storm would have cabal therapy/duress/gitaxian probe'd you so they would have knowledge of the stifle. They should be able to play around it, however, its another hoop they have to jump through to achieve victory.

You haven't lived until you stifle a kuldotha forge master.

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Format wide, there are a lot of things you can do with stifle and I see that most of the favorites have already been mentioned. I once hid a copy topdeck with sensei's against a storm player. Flickerwisp, Aven Mindcensor, are two that I didn't see mentioned, SDT is another.

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Originally Posted by apple713

Also, if you are running trinket make and decide to include stifle, 1 of phyrexian dreadnought isn't bad for a 1 of inclusion.

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I would advise against Dreadnought simply because it does not gain a lot other than just being a really big body. Generally the deck likes to play towards value creatures effects over just simply a beatstick (after all, we don't play Tarmogoyf even though he's in our colors and a simpler 2 drop). Kind of why we stick to doing things like this.

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Originally Posted by Ponders

Format wide, there are a lot of things you can do with stifle and I see that most of the favorites have already been mentioned. I once hid a copy topdeck with sensei's against a storm player. Flickerwisp, Aven Mindcensor, are two that I didn't see mentioned, SDT is another.

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theres nothing about aven mind censor that can be stifled. his ability is a replacement ability. when looking for things to stifle look for "when" or "whenever" or ":". Typically abilities that include "instead" would not be triggered abilities.

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Originally Posted by Ponders

Format wide, there are a lot of things you can do with stifle and I see that most of the favorites have already been mentioned. I once hid a copy topdeck with sensei's against a storm player. Flickerwisp, Aven Mindcensor, Mangara are two that I didn't see mentioned, SDT is another.

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I once stifled a mulligan. Guess who won that game.

If anybody has any experience with Stifle effects, it is Zotmaster. He has been trying them forever now, since even before Treasure Cruise. Watching him play them, I am not on board myself but cannot deny that they have been effective for him.

I am looking for feedback on the following build, as I've wanted to try Intuition for a very long time. Post runs many 3-ofs and can set up some powerful Intuition piles. If you have all three Eldrazi or Ugin you can just set up the "pick your poison" pile of three win conditions.

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// Creatures
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Trinket Mage

// Planeswalkers
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Instants and Sorceries
4 Brainstorm
3 Repeal
3 Intuition
3 Show and Tell
3 Crop Rotation

// Artifacts
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Engineered Explosives

// Land
3 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
2 Vesuva
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Academy Ruins
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas

// Sideboard
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Force of Will
3 Swan Song
2 Flusterstorm
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

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Essentially a more conservative, back to the roots approach that still has some new technology in there. I am unsure if I'd rather Dragonlord Dromoka be Silumgar, the Drifting Death to kill True-Name Nemesis, Dark Confidant, and Young Pyromancer + tokens. Dromoka certainly is a better clock and I think closing the game out is stronger overall, but I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted by winglerw28

If anybody has any experience with Stifle effects, it is Zotmaster. He has been trying them forever now, since even before Treasure Cruise. Watching him play them, I am not on board myself but cannot deny that they have been effective for him.

I am looking for feedback on the following build, as I've wanted to try Intuition for a very long time. Post runs many 3-ofs and can set up some powerful Intuition piles. If you have all three Eldrazi or Ugin you can just set up the "pick your poison" pile of three win conditions.



Essentially a more conservative, back to the roots approach that still has some new technology in there. I am unsure if I'd rather Dragonlord Dromoka be Silumgar, the Drifting Death to kill True-Name Nemesis, Dark Confidant, and Young Pyromancer + tokens. Dromoka certainly is a better clock and I think closing the game out is stronger overall, but I'm not sure.

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I really like this take on intuition. Adding shuffle effects is a huge plus! With academy ruins, some artifact creatures might be more attractive to loop instead of dragons, I don't think they're powerful enough for the colors and CMC.

I'm stone set on MD FOW these days, and intuition might provide that extra control I'm looking for.. I may try it over ponder.

*adds shiney heaven of spirit dragon to cart*

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

I really like this take on intuition. Adding shuffle effects is a huge plus! With academy ruins, some artifact creatures might be more attractive to loop instead of dragons, I don't think they're powerful enough for the colors and CMC.

I'm stone set on MD FOW these days, and intuition might provide that extra control I'm looking for.. I may try it over ponder.

*adds shiney heaven of spirit dragon to cart*

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Another thing to consider (somewhat controversially) is that Primeval Titan may be somewhat overrated. If you can cut Primeval Titan for Explorations you can make the deck a much more proactive deck while not sacrificing the ability to play Force of Will due to lack of card spots.

Based on a conversation I've been having with Zot, removing Show and Titan makes room for Ancient Stirrings and Wurmcoil, which would fit the intuition build excellently as well.

Edit: I also just thought of something - cutting Prime Time could make our Intuitions better by giving us Titania for a pile of Ugin + Titania + Haven or Wurmcoil + Ruins + Titania.

Edit 2: Also, Crucible of Worlds seems strong as well. Exploration + Crucible + Chasm is niiice.

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Originally Posted by winglerw28

Another thing to consider (somewhat controversially) is that Primeval Titan may be somewhat overrated. If you can cut Primeval Titan for Explorations you can make the deck a much more proactive deck while not sacrificing the ability to play Force of Will due to lack of card spots.

Based on a conversation I've been having with Zot, removing Show and Titan makes room for Ancient Stirrings and Wurmcoil, which would fit the intuition build excellently as well.

Edit: I also just thought of something - cutting Prime Time could make our Intuitions better by giving us Titania for a pile of Ugin + Titania + Haven or Wurmcoil + Ruins + Titania.

Edit 2: Also, Crucible of Worlds seems strong as well. Exploration + Crucible + Chasm is niiice.

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I was about to talk about crucible too: if you plan to remove S&T and Titans in favor of Exploration, you should play a couple of crucibles because you could Intuition for posts and play them from the grave, essentially ramping like titan does.
You lose a big body, a win condition and a repeatable search effect in liu of a lower curve, a more versatile tutor and an insurance against LD decks.

The more I think about this the more I like the idea behind this build... Building upon these ideas, maybe I will try this:

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// Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Trinket Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

// Planeswalkers
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Instants and Sorceries
4 Brainstorm
3 Repeal
3 Intuition
3 Force of Will
3 Crop Rotation
1 Dig Through Time

// Artifacts and Enchantments
4 Exploration
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pithing Needle
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds

// Land
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Vesuva
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Academy Ruins
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas

// Sideboard
1 Force of Will
3 Swan Song
2 Flusterstorm
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Karn Liberated
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ensnaring Bridge

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This build has resiliency, reach, inevitability, and combo protection. Arcane Laboratory or effects such as Thorn of Amethyst might be better in this build than some of the counterspells out of the board, but I didn't want to hedge so much against storm that there were no sideboard cards for Sneak and Show.