I mean Molten vortex MD. And yes Daryl has PF combo, Molten Vortex, Seismic too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower_Power
They write reports or primers for any site?
ty
Printable View
I mean Molten vortex MD. And yes Daryl has PF combo, Molten Vortex, Seismic too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower_Power
They write reports or primers for any site?
ty
Not sure if they do or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tutor
Good call on Reanimator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Layalouhamesh
As for the Crucible, it's probably in there for two reasons: 1) Improves your chances of wrecking your opponent's manabase since he's running a full set of Wasteland and Ghost Quarter, 2) Good if you're expecting a lot of Wasteland decks in the meta.
Crucible gives you outs to Prelate.
Ok, I have my last SB slot for this weekend!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Pretty good against miracles also
http://i.imgur.com/cJ7ELHmh.png
http://i.imgur.com/cJ7ELHm.png
This is what I am currently playing but I need a lot more practice. Still a bit new to the archetype.
I would love any and all tips to fighting against Surgicals and Miracles.
Agreed. I have been playing Stax for the last month and have been loving the Crucibles. When you have it online you can do some crazy shit. I love when they grab the top card to flip it and you have to call them to stop. "Quarter your Plains." Then you get the "Oh fuck" look followed by replaying the Land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds
Oh and Crucible is a bitch when you have an Exploration effect going. For me it's been Orrery, but anything will do.
It would be really interesting to see how Daryl Ayers sideboarded or how you do in general with the Baltimore t8 list, because quite a few things changed.
Anyone have played against the BR reanimator?
I find it quite a tough match up, the turn 1 Griselbrand is really hard to fight before sb!
And even after sb, with karakas and bog, removing their first target in response to a reanimation spell... it seems that they have so much density!
Even a chalice at 1 is not blocking the animate dead and exhume without saying that their discard can take it before it lands!
And they also have Tirespout tyrant to avoid the issue Karakas or Maze!
Any advice?
Well, the first thing I would advice you to do is to play 4 Chalice instead of 4 Sphere of Resistance. The first is way more useful in the actual meta, especially in the Miracle match-up. Here, Sphere does little compared to Chalice, because not beeing able to cast any cantrip, Sensei's and Sword to Plowshare is very powerfull. And please everyone: don't bring the Boseiju + Sphere + Crop/Gamble argument: it is nice when it happens, we should use it if possible, but this shouldn't be the main strategie to fight back against deck with counterspells. Sphere was usefull back in the days when they were a lot of OmniTell, which is not the case anymore. And against almost every other combo, I find Chalice to be better, even if it harms us a bit too. So if I want to play more than 4 hate-spells artifact, I will almost everytime go for 4 CoV and 2 SoR (or, if sphere is really needed, a 3-3 split).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
EDIT: oh, and against Miracle, Molten Vortex, even if it cost 1, is a really powerfull card, which also comes very handy in others match-ups.
Play Karakas and Bojuka bog maindeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by benjiman13
We can't beat Tidespout Tyrant so don't even try.
Does BR play tidespout?
Yes they do, as well as sire of insanity, which is a common turn 1 play as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds
Thankfully B/R Reanimator is a small part of the meta. It has a rough time against Chalice Decks of which there are the popular Death & Taxes and Eldrazi.
Combo decks are always rough, but with Miracles being another top deck (and having Swords, Force and Counterbalance) it is hard to get too worried.
HOWEVER, this is one reason why a 4 Chalice sideboard would be better than a 4 Sphere sideboard.
A bad Reanimator player will get a legendary creature, a smart one will get Tidespout Tyrant. Sometimes you can get lucky.
I like the 4 Chalice SB right now. 4 Chalice 2 Sphere 4 Crop Rotation / Bog / Karakas is ok against BR Reanimator. It's not exactly a free win for them if they can't Entomb for the T1 Tidespout. 4 Chalice and 3-4 Tracker SB just does a lot of work against Miracles. I did manage to lock myself out of a game where I brought in 4 Chalice 3 Tracker though. Mulled to 5 into a T1 Chalice with nothing else, really, hoping to just draw a Tracker or Decay for whatever he manages to play. I lost to a Snapcaster chipping me out.
This considered, what does everyone think of Sylvan Scrying in this deck? I remember seeing a list with 1 of those in the main. Thinking of cutting the third Maze and going to 61 for 2 Sylvan Scrying. This gives us ways to tutor for lands with Chalice in play.
Ok, so this might be a dumb question: In Ayers list, why the 1/1 split of Seismic Assault and Molten Vortex?
I like his list, but this is my only real hold-up.
I think that part is all about dodging Prelate + Revoker from Death and Taxes.
If this is against the list with Chancellor fo the Anex you just need to get a Maze of Ith going generally. This is a reason not to overload on Chalices. Crop for Maze vs their durdle guys is a great plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by benjiman13
Also bring in Grip for their 3 BloodMoon after board.
Mana denial should be the plan, so Spheres come in.
Sib
Ok, so I took Daryl Ayer's build out for a tournament and realized a few things:
1) more Reanimator in the metagame, you want Karakas and/or Bojuka Bog maindeck.
4) dozens of Surgical Extractions everywhere -> 4 Tracker 4 Chalice great, maybe 1x Crucible of Worlds to diversify (and side-out 1 Loam)? Also good vs Chalice on 2 from Aggro Loam/Eldrazi.
2) Seismic Assault is great, but Molten Vortex (1 mb, 1sb) often sucked with 4x Chalice. Assault helps in tricky situations and is kind of unexpected!
3) 4x Chalice sb is great in multiple matchups. Better than the Spheres atm.
5) Boseiju is great and better as a maindeck card for your Crop Rotations in the Miracle MU.
6) Ghost Quarter was awesome and versatile in every round. It shuts down another angle from your opponent and can actually make them sac the whole board with Tabernacle. Strict upgrade from Port in this metagame, much better vs green-based decks, Delver and Miracles.
7) I still get colorless hands and would like more colored sources to make life easier.
So moving forward, cutting 3rd Fire, Vortex, 4th Grove, 4th Depths for 2 Taiga, 2nd Seismic Assault & Karakas. I have no idea what to cut for the Bojuka Bog main, maybe switch it with Boseiju (which is a better maindeck card though).
I could get greedy and not play the additional colored source to fit in the Bog.
I also cut the sb Ancient Grudge for Crucible of Worlds.
Let me know your thoughts!
I was wondering if someone could explain how chalice of the void is better then sphere of resistance? I live in a small town without much of a legacy scene so I don't get a lot of practice. I feel like I always get stuck with a bunch of my own one drops stuck in my hand and it takes a while to get the ball rolling without them. I plan on going to GP Louisville so I need to tune my deck to a much larger meta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara_Anderson
Legacy is packed with one drops, usually around 14 and they range from swords, bolt brainstorms ponders, turn one chalice on one shuts down so much in legacy and puts them behind. Sphere is good against combo when they rely on petals and spells that increases mana, taxing that gives you time to stabilize against combo. It changes your plans also but it's usually more important to stop them for several turns
I could be wrong, but I board out a bunch of 1cc spells when I bring in Chalice. Against Miracles, Rotation goes away, and a Gamble or two. I don't like casting Gambles before Chalice on 1 because I could expose the card I Gambled to Extraction, and obviously I can't even cast them after Chalice is in play. Vortex is just so good against Miracles that I can't cut it, but it does get awkward. Tracker can get you way ahead with Chalice in play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara_Anderson
Chalice has an edge for me because it is also very good against Miracles, possibly shutting down all cantrips, top, swords and extraction. If you board them in versus Miracles, i'd cut gambles, but leave the crop rotations for Boseiju. Also, swapping Ports for Ghostquarters makes spheres weaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara_Anderson
But spheres (and Port) are overall better as the mana denial can work against any deck. Chalice is worse against S&T, and also Reanimator as it can dodge Chalice1 with its 2cc reanimation spells (and discard to handsize), and you really need your own 1cc spells (crop for Bog). Both sphere and Chalice are good against Storm, but I also prefer spheres here as you still can cast crop rotation and gamble.
This guy has it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
Too much of the deck functions on having 1 drops for Chalice on 1 to be the main post board plan. You bring them in vs storm because there is the option to play chalice on ZERO and stop all of their petals and LED's as well as the times you need to put it on 1 as you also have a sphere. Post board they are running Abrupt decay so relying too hard on chalice on 1 is not a great plan.
My feelings on Surgical are that people just need to stop cutting Tranquil Thicket and practice a bit more with the deck. Sure sometimes you are gonna loose to Surgical, but with a bit of patience you should learn to get into situations where you don't because you know how to leverage your Thickets. Also stop discarding Darkdepths to Mox diamonds when vs surgical decks and you will see your win % improve drastically. Be aware of what is in you graveyard.
Sib
Never too much of a rant :) thanks for being so thorough sibQuote:
Originally Posted by Sibelius
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Today, I played in the Channel Fireball Legacy 1K (which ended up having so many players that the prize pool was upped to 2K) and was able to make it to Top 4 of the tournament before splitting prizes. I built my deck for the tournament with the intention to beat out Miracles and Death and Taxes, which have become 2 of the most popular decks in my meta. Decklist will be posted at the bottom.
Round 1 vs Omnitell (0-2)
Not happy about this first round. I know my opponent is on Omnitell, and he proceeds to do what his deck does on turn 3 both games without me being able to really interact. Kind of a poor start to the first round.
Round 2 vs Death and Taxes (2-1)
This is what I've been waiting for. With the printing of Recruiter of the Guard and Sanctum Prelate, I anticipated a LOT of Death and Taxes today (which there was). Game 1, I have a pretty decent hand, and am able to lock him out of the game with Tabernacle, multiple Mazes, and Punishing Fire/Grove. I lose game 2 to an unchecked Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Game 3, I, again, get a solid lock on my opponent, leaving him with 5 Plains, all 3 equipment on the battlefield, no cards in hand, and no creatures to attack. We go to time before he realizes there's no real way for him to win.
Round 3 vs Esper Deathblade
This matchup went about as well as one would expect. Any time he would get me close to death, I would make a Marit Lage and gain another nice 20 life cushion until he ran out of StPs. Game 2, he makes the mistake of trying to FoW a Loam cast off of a Boseiju, and proceeds to concede.
Round 4 vs Death and Taxes (2-1)
Game 1, Vial and a lot of disruption, and I am unable to catch up and lose to Batterskull beats. Game 2, I keep a sketchy hand of 6 lands and Helm of Obedience, He stars off a little slower this time, with Mother of Runes, into Stoneforge Mystic, into Prelate on 2, to which I Kozilek's Return EOT, and cast Loam on my turn, prompting him to cast Rest in Peace. I play a 5th land and Helm him for 1. Game 3 is a grindfest, but with an Exploration and Loam, and my opponent with no way to answer my GY, he loses to Marit Lage.
Round 5 vs Grixis Delver (2-1)
I keep a slow hand, and lose to double Young Pyromancer, and timely Stifles and counterspells. Game 2, I am able to keep the board relatively clear, and make a Marit Lage before he can really recover. Game 3, Turn 1 Chalice on 1, Turn 2 Wasteland, Turn 3 Wasteland, Turn 4 Loam. Opponent concedes.
Round 6 vs RUG Lands (0-0-3)
I am paired against a friend, and instead of one of us knocking the other out, we agree to ID and try to win our last round of swiss.
Round 7 vs 4 Color Loam
Game 1, he gets a lock of Chalice on 1 and 2, and kills me with a 10/10 Knight of the Reliquary. Game 2, I play a fast Marit Lage without a way for him to answer, and steal the game. Game 3, he draws his only Forest in his deck, and I Ghost Quarter/Wasteland him out of the game.
Quarterfinals vs TES Storm (2-1)
Game 1, I know what my opponent is playing, and know that there's not really much I can do to interact with what he does, but I play it out to see more cards in his deck. He kills me on Turn 3. Game 2, I Gamble on turn 1 for Trinisphere, which he ends up Duressing, but draw another on a few turns later, while my opponent has a series of unfortunate draws, and basically does nothing for the rest of the game. Game 3 is a nail biter. At no point did I really feel ahead in the game. No Chalices, no Trinispheres. My opponent casts a LOT of cantrips, but continues to draw rather poorly (possibly due to over sideboarding). Then he starts to go off, leading with triple LED and probe. He sees my hand contains the Tabernacle that I left in to combat an Empty kill, which I think he was planning on going for, as his pace of play dramatically slows down as soon as he sees it. He Ad Nauseams into a rather poor hand, and is only able to Tendrils me down to 2. On my turn I Ghost Quarter and Wasteland the rest of the lands he has left in play, and Bojuka Bog his graveyard. It had turned out, my opponent had made a mistake when casting his last Brainstorm, which locked up the game for me.
Overall, I am very happy with my performance today. Of the 68 players who attended, there were more new players than I had expected (which does say something about the interest players who have not been playing for years have for Legacy). My tech choices today for DnT were great, and I feel like I would have had a fine time against Miracles, had I played against it all day. There were a few situations today where I wished the Tranquil Thickets were Horizon Canopies, but I don't think it made THAT much of a difference. Not once did I miss Rishadan Port.
Maindeck
2 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths
4 Mox Diamond
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
4 Exploration
1 Molten Vortex
1 Seismic Assault
Sideboard
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Krosan Grip
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Boil
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dark Depths
2 Kozilek's Return
The dream.Quote:
He stars off a little slower this time, with Mother of Runes, into Stoneforge Mystic, into Prelate on 2, to which I Kozilek's Return EOT, and cast Loam on my turn, prompting him to cast Rest in Peace. I play a 5th land and Helm him for 1.
The look on his face was definitely priceless. Worth the sideboard slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
I got 3rd at a GPT hosted by Knight Ware Inc yesterday.
Here's the results: http://www.knight-ware.com/ccg/magic...016legacy.html
My matches:
Round One: Miracles 2-1
Round Two: Miracles 2-1
Round Three: RW Burn 2-0
Round Four: D&T 2-1
Round Five: 4C Delver 2-0
Round Six: ID
Round Seven: ID
Entered top 8 at 2nd place with 5-0-2.
QF: Eldrazi 2-0
SF: 4C Loam 0-2
There's nothing to notable to point out about any of the matches. The list felt pretty great though I might convert to the 4 GQ maindeck moving forward.
Hello fellow Sourcerers.
Please excuse my ignorance if I didn't ready through the lat 10 or so pages when the idea of 4 GQ was introduced vs 4 ports, but did anybody try any ration between Ports and GQs? Currently I'm playing 1 GQ and 4 ports. Since my frequency of palying lands is maybe once every two-three motnhs I, unfortunetlly, don't have the mileage to asses whether there is any "optimal" mix between number of GQs/port. I'm thinking 3GQs/2 ports? Or is mixxing up these things totally dumb (and why, if so)?
Hello to all the awesome Lands players ;).
First of all, I really like the idea of Helm of Obedience in the SB. I had a little trouble to beat good D&T players lately and I will definitely try this tech, especially because Helm is also good in the Miracle matchup. So 1 SBslot for 2 of the most played decks in my area sounds like a good idea.
The second thing is the question about Ghost Quarter / Rishadan Port. Focus on 1 of these cards or play a split? I started to play this decks with obviously 4 Wastelands and 4 Ports and noticed pretty fast that as soon as our opponent plays Basics the strongest plan (Mana denial) besides the combo is not working anymore. So I started to play 1 GQ main. The more I played this single copy the more I loved it and I started pretty heavily to play my tutors on my single GQ......because the GQ was so strong I wanted to draw or dredge it more naturally and I cut 1 Port to play a second GQ. So for the last 2 month I play 4 Wasteland/3Ports/2GQ and I'm very happy with this split. On one hand I wouldn't cut the ports completely because It's extremely strong to slow our opponent down for 1 mana without sacrificing 1 Land (We don't always have Exploration/Manabond to play more lands each turn). On the other hand I personally wouldn't play 4 GQ because I also had games where the first 2-3 GQ was basically negated because my opponent could search his library for a basic land, and without Exploration this means we do basically nothing for a few turns.
So I think both cards, the Ports and GQ need a few slots in the deck.
Sorry for my bad english ;).
I agree. Just got back from a big tournament in France, where I tried 4 Wasteland + 3 GQ with no port. Clearly, 3 GQ was enough to ensure finding them easily and have a nice moment against some matchups. However, I often ended up with one or 2 mana missing to be able to play correctly, and ports would have helped in that case. I'm thinking of moving to 4 Wasteland + 4 port + 2 GQ, just don't know what to cut yet :)Quote:
Originally Posted by StefN
My current list is a 4,3,2 split for Waste, Port and Quarter. I like it.
I think the RP vs QG comes down to your meta. Personally I like my Ports, but have tried four GQ. I don't dislike it, but just think a split as proposed by myself and others should be fine. Again, in a meta with decks relying on basic lands GQ doesn't feel that good. I'm on 4/3/2 as well, by the way.
I personally am not sure that splitting is a good idea. 4-of gives you a benefit of consistency AND a clear game plan for how you will attack a manabase. I think that's important. I would recommend going the 4-of route, and just choosing what's best for your meta.
Against Miracles, Quarter is superior to Port because most Miracles players only have 5 white sources (2 being Plains). In a Game 1 where you don't maindeck (or draw) Boseiju, Ghost Quarter can help remove their white sources that could cast Terminus, Swords (and also shut off Entreat). Ghost Quarter is also fun when they have Top out and they really want to keep what is on top (for Counterbalance or whatever). They can either choose to get Strip Mine'd or lose their deck-stacking.
Against Delver, Shardless & Eldrazi decks with few to zero basics, Ghost Quarter becomes Strip Mine and can shut an opponent out completely. It also makes Tabernacle more effective.
Against Death & Taxes, it is often a wash. Ports don't do much when they often have Aether Vial. If they don't have Aether Vial, you might be able to eek out an edge with Ports, but realistically they are beating you down with Thalia and a Flickerwisp with plenty of white mana open for Swords.
Basically, the overall meta shifted just enough that for big tournaments Ghost Quarter became the better call. This could totally change in 3 months, but I think it's the right call now.
I myself have been experimenting with the idea of 4/4/4 (or 4/4/3). This makes the land control overwhelming, but requires losing a few cards (like a 3rd Maze, Bojuka/Boseiju/Karakas, 4th Depths, Riftstone Portal, or similar). I'm a little loath to do that because of how important some of those one-offs are.
Also, it's a little unclear which matchups I would be improving. I find a lot of matches where I don't gain land superiority due to lack of Loam or having my acceleration countered/destroyed. In moments like this, Port feels particularly unhelpful.
i play 4 ports in paper and 4 GQ on MTGO for cost concerns (shelling a grand on e-ports seems absurd to me). They honestly do more work than you would think. Many decks feature 3-4 basics and you can get a foothold early by taking out their nonbasics and assaulting their basics later on (many times players will fetch out their 3 basics and have nothing to search for). They also act as a wasteland to start wasteland into stage activation wars that we are all fond of or to take out truly problematic lands like cradle when you just can't find a wasteland. Most of the matchups where GQ is strictly worse than port, I don't find port really winning me the game too often; if you run spheres in the board then port can do a lot of work if your opponent can't seem to topdeck some lands.
But what I like the most is the game it brings vs the miracles and delver matchups. they are two of the most common decks and GQ is far more valuable than port. You can manage to quarter/waste out all white sources from miracles and sometimes lock them out of their win conditions/protection.
This is the biggest concern I have with Ghostquarter, as port and spheres are a great team against most of our bad combomatchups. But combo is on the decline where I play (apart from BR Reanimator, but as this preys on other combodecks, it probably stimulated the fallback of other combo).Quote:
Originally Posted by heckler
@ heckler and jhport: I've been over this many times myself, even posted on the subject at Reddit, and while I don't disagree with your thinking, I just haven't decided really :smile:
There are days when I like the split better than 4 GQ, or vice versa. Perhaps I should just try it, again.
It will always be a meta thing. It's a kind of pre sideboarding. I can't make the total switch thanks to the amount of Nic Fit and DnT in my meta. I think that's something to keep in mind when looking at this idea. It will not work for everyone. It may become something personal to each players needs.