Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
@ Big Bopper
Your list reminds me that the cards that suffer most from cutting Warchiefs are the Sharpshooter/Prospector combo, as both cards are significantly better with a Warchief in play than with any possible synergy with Warren Instigator. I think the viability of that combo makes the best case for keeping the full complement of Warchiefs.
So how viable is it? What decks do you need it against and what deck can you hope to resolve it against? I've always found it weak against aggro control and decks with lots of removal and has only ever been a bomb for me against Elf decks.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Red Army
@ Big Bopper
Your list reminds me that the cards that suffer most from cutting Warchiefs are the Sharpshooter/Prospector combo, as both cards are significantly better with a Warchief in play than with any possible synergy with Warren Instigator. I think the viability of that combo makes the best case for keeping the full complement of Warchiefs.
So how viable is it? What decks do you need it against and what deck can you hope to resolve it against? I've always found it weak against aggro control and decks with lots of removal and has only ever been a bomb for me against Elf decks.
Well, first of all I believe that almost all my goblins advance with warchief, also Piledriver, Matron and Ringleader AND I've made bad experience with Lackey/Instigator to connect, 'cause they see removal all the time.
Simple example from a postboard game I played yesterday vs. Thresh: A late game Pyroclasm left me with a vial on 4, while I ate 9 damage from Goyf and delver. On my turn I cast warchief for 3 and matron for 2, searching for Ringleader and vialed in, witch revealed Piledriver and Gempalm. So get to cast Piledriver for 1 and strike for what, not less than 12 dmg. which was lethal, and he had no red source open for a bolt. I doubt chieftain and WI would have gotten the same direction, but that's not the point.
It is clear that I totally cut all chieftains leaving me vulnerable to pyroclasm, but still you need to have 2-3 in play otherwise it will be the same with a bolt...
I rarely get to combo out with warchief and skrik into matron, MWM and on, but I still get the feeling to recover more easily from any point of mass removal and or huge jitte/sword effects. The thing is that warchief might see a removal once in a while, but that's just ok, because they don't have it left for my SGC tutored up or Wort, getting him back.
I would play sharpshooter regardless of warchief...
I hope I got what you meant?
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FTW
Core 24 (-1 Warchief, -1 Piledriver)
4 Warren Instigator
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Wort
1 Kiki-Jiki
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
2 Warren Weirding
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
4 Badlands
6 Mountain
6 mixed fetches
I *really* like this list.
Running 12 broken mana accelerants, more card drawing (both Wort and kikijiki are effectively card drawing spells in addition to matron and ringleader) and more removal means that you are ironically the control deck in alot of matchups.
I'd be inclined to run a 7th fetch over the 6th mountain however.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
I've also been testing bolts in my deck and right now they are more than amazing. I usually play on Cockatrice for testing and often run into either Maverick, TA/Canadian ***** or ANT matchups. Destroyed maverick basicly due to mana screw. As far as I remember I kept bolting the first threats while sandbaging Lackey and other good stuff, while holding early turns with Mogg War Marshal. After turn 3 or something I was the one who kept casting threats. And I clearly remember the second game, first turn bolt hierarch, second turn lackey + wasteland, and gempalm on Dryad Arbor. It was insane, there was nothing he could do about it. About TA/***** matchups, TA is a lot easier as we can actually deal with most of their threats, but Canadian ***** is pretty much impossible to beat, at least for me. Also, Chalice of the Void is a must, but I couldn't test it further. I guess it should be really good against all these thresh variants. I was looking at ercoman youtube videos how he plays with canadian *****, if they dont answer cotv@1, they are pretty much done. Also cotv is a complete blowout for ant/tes decks.
My decklist right now is this :
25 core
- Piledriver
4x Mogg War Marshal
2x Goblin Chieftain
4x Aether Vial
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Wasteland
3x Rishadan Port
6x Fetches
2x Taiga
7x Mountain
And I will always advocate playing 4x Mogg War Marshal, he's just THAT good. It helps you stall the game for some time, surprise block stuff and he's just plain awesome with chieftains and gempalms.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
@BigBopper - I've never had a problem with Lackey/Instigator eating removal. That is just half of what those cards do. If the removal wasn't hitting Instigator, it was going to hit Warchief anyways, so why not get let it happen with fewer cards on the table? Even when they throw blockers in your way, one of the easiest ways of winning is by making sure your opponent controls no creatures, so late game lackey/instigator connection are a reasonable win condition, especially with Pyrokenesis or Perish for aggro and a maindeck with tutorable-cantripping-burn and edicts.
The key difference between Insitgator and Warchief builds is that one tries to gain an edge in the early turns while the other tries to take an edge a little bit later. Neither of them are guaranteed to work and don't play well with Rishadan Port or each other (since they both try to do the same thing too well). You're more likely to have Warchief by the time you need him, but a starting hand without Instigator, I have learned, is worse than a hand without Insitgator. I'm always looking for an edge with my goblin deck, I wouldn't go back to a build that I don't feel I can win with as much. I feel more in control of the deck with the Instigators, because it's much easier to predict what's going to happen after you play it, and the consequences of failure are slightly less severe.
Goblin Lackey really is the reason why Goblins has been good for so long, and to double that effect allows the deck to play with a Lackey in play for the whole game more frequently than ever. The more the better.
It's especially not that obvious because Mogg War Marshal is so good against legacy fat. Warren Instigator is kind of the antithesis of Mogg War Marshal, and I don't mind playing them together.
Conclusion - I certainly don't mean to give off an impression that I think anyone playing Vial Goblins as we know it is a mindless, net decking sheep, but I think I have made my case for deck diversity the best I can possibly do it and am satisfied. I've rid myself of some ignorance along the way from constructive criticism, and feel much more prepared for my next legacy tournament. A players skill in Legacy correlates inversely with their level of ignorance to the format/game. I've always liked reading the thread, but not quite as much with my thoughts all over it, although I am wildly opinionated about the deck. I wish success to all Goblin decks regardless of build, splash, or player.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Augustas
...but Canadian ***** is pretty much impossible to beat, at least for me...
Thresh should actually be a good MU, since a turn 1 vial on the play needs to see a force in order to stay in the game. Also there are few decks in legacy that have a cc curve as high as gobbos-so they prepare with spell snare and daze for games with few cc. The only counter they can present to your matrons and ringleaders is stifle. So their way are somewhat limited. Although you're pretty right about chalice. I've seen my testing partner scooping after I landed a postboard chalice@1 turn 2. He was digging for grip but since he didn't find it in his brainstorm, he saw no way out for the next 2 turns.
By the way 4 Aether Vial count to core cards-I hope you don't run 8 of them^^
@RedArmy: I also like to see positive results with gobbos no matter what list was run, but WInstigator was not able to convince me of his power yet, whether with or w/o Moxes. And trading creatures 1 - 1 makes me unhappy since I usually have to pay more cc for them
About Bolt: my first intention was it to answer turn 1 MoR and turn 2 SFM, so yeah I could also play tarfie but without MM the goblincount is already at 31.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Tournament report for a very mediocre performance on Saturday. I used the following goblins:
Core -1 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Warren Instigator
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm Incinerator
Lands 22
2 Chrome Mox
3 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
14 Mountain
Sideboard 15
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Shattering Spree
1 Stingscourger
2 Pyrokinesis
4 Chalice of the Void
I was very happy with my sideboard and still am. I'm disappointed in my ability to use the sideboard in unpracticed circumstances... Tournament had 36 players. I initially intended to bring R/b Goblins but after a few games on Thursday I felt it was too slow for what I wanted to bring.
Round 1 - Shoal and Tell 1-2
Game 1 he plays Blighted Agent. I scratch my head and Gempalm it. Instigator connects dropping SGC and Chieftain. I steam roll him and think it'll be an easy round. I opt not to board.
Game 2 I use an early matron to search for a Gempalm. He Intuitions for and plays Show and Tell and drops Emrakul into play. I draw nothing that answers Emrakul and lose. In: Stingscourger Out: Gempalm Incinerator
Here's where I should have added my Surgical Extractions. I blame the rest of the day on the fact that I didn't...
Game 3 I keep him off lands and make it as difficult as possible for him to play S+T. All the while I'm holding Stingscourger. When he finally does play it he shows me Progenitus instead and 2 turns later I'm dead.
That loss sets me up for
Round 2 - Enchantress 0-2
Game 1 I get Lackey through the Elephant Grass to drop SGC into play. He sighs and I whittle down his life very slowly trying to keep him off Moat mana with Port. When I get him to 10 life he finds it and I scoop.
I bring 3 Surgical Extraction and 3 Chalice of the Void in desperation, taking out my removal package, a SGC, and a Vial.
Game 2 I mull to 6 and keep a horrendous hand of 4 Mountains, Matron, Mox. Surprisingly Goblins almost got there and I got him to 5 before he found Moat.
Afterwards he said that I should have thrown my goblins at him with SGC game 1 because if I had done that rather than Port him off his Serra's Sanctum then I'd have had him.
Round 3 - Less Than 43 Lands 2-1
Said his list was card for card from a list by a local pro. Artifact hate game 2 made this one easy killing Ensnaring Bridge.
Round 4 - NO Band 2-1
Proggie got through game 2. Him mulling to 5 made game 3 easy. Took no damage the games I won.
Round 5 - RUG Countertop 0-2
We bitch about our losses and he gives me some shit for taking too long to start.
Game 1 I lead off with Mountain, Go. He doesn't do much his turn. I drop Mountain, Chrome Mox, Chieftain and he says "What... the hell... is going on". He gets Punishing Fire and Grove of the Burnwillows online and kills my goblins but I dump more onto the board than he can deal with. I get him to 6 life before Goofy does me in.
In: 3 Surgical Extraction, 2 Relic of Progenitus. Forgot what I took out...
Game 2 I get antsy and misplay an Extraction allowing him to return Punishing Fire to his hand in response. As I'm preparing to hang myself I draw another and redeem my play mistake by removing all his copies from the game. 2 Tarmogoyfs got there and I chalk up another loss for the day...
Interestingly I did not see a single appearance by the card Counterbalance that round.
By now I'm doing so poorly for the day that I get paired up against a random homebrew deck.
Round 6 - Surprise! or Erratic Explosion 2-1
I ended a dismal 17th. There was 1 other Goblin player there. He also ran a mono-red list with War Marshals instead of Instigators. He said the Blood Moons in his board auto won a lot of games. The top 8 included that Goblins player, at least 2 RUG Countertops, at least 2 Stoneblade variants, a Tempo deck, and BUG Landstill.
So... Who has had experience against RUG Countertop? How have your games gone and what is your general strategy against them?
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigBopper
Thresh should actually be a good MU, since a turn 1 vial on the play needs to see a force in order to stay in the game. Also there are few decks in legacy that have a cc curve as high as gobbos-so they prepare with spell snare and daze for games with few cc. The only counter they can present to your matrons and ringleaders is stifle. So their way are somewhat limited. Although you're pretty right about chalice. I've seen my testing partner scooping after I landed a postboard chalice@1 turn 2. He was digging for grip but since he didn't find it in his brainstorm, he saw no way out for the next 2 turns.
By the way 4 Aether Vial count to core cards-I hope you don't run 8 of them^^
@RedArmy: I also like to see positive results with gobbos no matter what list was run, but WInstigator was not able to convince me of his power yet, whether with or w/o Moxes. And trading creatures 1 - 1 makes me unhappy since I usually have to pay more cc for them
About Bolt: my first intention was it to answer turn 1 MoR and turn 2 SFM, so yeah I could also play tarfie but without MM the goblincount is already at 31.
Aw shucks, I can't help but have to weigh in again, not to change you mind or anything though. I appreciate your encouragement.
I like the idea of making any 1 for 1 when ever I possibly can with Goblins, because the deck has a much greater likely hood of out drawing the opponent in the long run. The earlier the better, you can make two for one's with Gempalm turns 2 and beyond, and after turn three the deck starts pounding out C/A. The more threats that they have to answer early on makes it much more difficult to answer the C/A of Demonic Tutor and Factor Fictions on legs.
Of course, I wasn't talking about trading creatures with creatures (gaming their removal/counters is how I play), but I would most certainly force-trade Lackey with Mother of Runes or a similar threat if I don't have the removal to clear the way. It's a much better decision than waiting and losing to better cards. There are plenty of creatures I'd be willing to either force-trade or 'eat' with Warren Instigator, and the tempo is always worthwhile. I'd DEFINITELY trade a 2/2 Instigator with Tarmogoyf, as I have countless times. But there is a reason the deck plays extra removal that is good in the early turns where Gempalm would fail other wise, and most decks don't apply pressure and answer a Lackey at once in the early turns.
Abusing their desire to block instigator allows you to abuse Gempalm in such a way that practically tacks an extra point of damage as effectively as MWM in the early turns, with the chance that Instigator survives.
Like Instigator, Warchief doesn't create it's own opportunities to hit the opponent either. It's dependent on the other cards, although it makes some of them a cheaper. I guess you wouldn't like trading goblins for other creatures on a 1 to 1 basis because Warchief can be such a bad card to do that with. You need to pamper your goblins until you're ready to explode (which I admit happens on good days), but Instigator builds are more Aggro in that you are always putting pressure on the opponent with Lackeys and mana denial.
That's exactly it though, you don't want to trade creatures because you have to pay more for them? I would block a Nimble Mongoose or Wild Nacatl, with a Matron and Ringleader More often than Not, because they have already provided me with cards I wouldn't trade creature for creature with SGC, Warchief, Chieftain, or one of those engine Gobs, but everything else is fair game because of their inherent card advantage. 1 of the opponents cards is always worth more than 1 of ours.
Warchief kind of encourages over-extention, because a full hand of goblins isn't often enough to overcome the creatures/removal you are facing on turn five in most Legacy games. Lategame, being when you already have mana superiority and are topdecking, Chieftain is strictly better than Warchief, who is now a Goblin Chariot. I've gone back to Warchiefs from time to time, and I am convinced that it is weaker than the alternatives at certain points of the game.
From experience, you don't worry about sweepers as much if you play it right, you can force them early, or just drop Matrons and Ringleaders, who are really just bonus babies. > with regards to board sweeper CA.
You also have better play on mulligans since you are less likely to draw the land that Warchief depends on, and face it, the first Warchief almost never resolves or survives unless a Lackey already took the removal.
Goblin Chieftain boosts each individual goblin enough that, considering my playstyle, I can afford to make somewhat reckless decisions.
To me, Warchief is a prerequisite to broken things rather than a broken thing itself.
I would like someone to convince me in-depth what Warchief does that makes it better than what I've been advocating.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Red Army
To me, Warchief is a prerequisite to broken things rather than a broken thing itself.
Neither Warchief or Chieftain are broken, Vial is the broken card :tongue:
In all seriously though, they're different lords for different builds. In the current meta, where attrition is the name of the game thanks to snapcaster, Chieftain shines because he pumps all the goblin cards that fit in this build (MWM, Instigator, more Siege gangs), whereas Warchief plays smoothly with explosive strats, like the Piledriver ones.
Right now, Warchief may seem weak, but remember that it's a constant change, so probably he will shine more in the future. Right now it's Chieftain time :cool:
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
I suppose I'm satisfied then, and will stop pretending that I'm John, the Goblin Baptist for a while.
I guess I'm just saying that you got to really want those Instigators, people, that's a bigger difference in the deck than the Cheiftains (they just work better together).
I don't see the format changing enough to make Warchief the cost-efficient three drop it used to be. The only thing that could make me go back to a Warchief build would be new Goblins that flat out work better with Warchief, but the meta can do very unpredictable things.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
For me Goblins is an aggro control deck, not just aggro. The wastelands, and ports are essential, but the warchiefs are also key as they help with the mana as Goblins are mana hungry. A single chieftain as a 5th haste enabler seems fine, but replacing warchiefs for chieftains seems a mistake to me.
The core of the deck it seems is for a reason, vials, lackeys, piledrivers, matrons, warchiefs, ringleaders, 2 SGC, and also wastelands and ports, as all these cards play into aggro control.
The meta has meant our sideboards need to take other decks into account, eg Chalice against storm, but the core should remain the core. The flexi slots allow for player individuality and play style for example I like MWM, but dropping warchiefs for chieftains seems wrong somehow to me.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Red Army
Aw shucks, I can't help but have to weigh in again, not to change you mind or anything though. I appreciate your encouragement.
I like the idea of making any 1 for 1 when ever I possibly can with Goblins, because the deck has a much greater likely hood of out drawing the opponent in the long run. The earlier the better, you can make two for one's with Gempalm turns 2 and beyond, and after turn three the deck starts pounding out C/A. The more threats that they have to answer early on makes it much more difficult to answer the C/A of Demonic Tutor and Factor Fictions on legs.
Of course, I wasn't talking about trading creatures with creatures (gaming their removal/counters is how I play), but I would most certainly force-trade Lackey with Mother of Runes or a similar threat if I don't have the removal to clear the way. It's a much better decision than waiting and losing to better cards. There are plenty of creatures I'd be willing to either force-trade or 'eat' with Warren Instigator, and the tempo is always worthwhile. I'd DEFINITELY trade a 2/2 Instigator with Tarmogoyf, as I have countless times. But there is a reason the deck plays extra removal that is good in the early turns where Gempalm would fail other wise, and most decks don't apply pressure and answer a Lackey at once in the early turns.
Abusing their desire to block instigator allows you to abuse Gempalm in such a way that practically tacks an extra point of damage as effectively as MWM in the early turns, with the chance that Instigator survives.
Like Instigator, Warchief doesn't create it's own opportunities to hit the opponent either. It's dependent on the other cards, although it makes some of them a cheaper. I guess you wouldn't like trading goblins for other creatures on a 1 to 1 basis because Warchief can be such a bad card to do that with. You need to pamper your goblins until you're ready to explode (which I admit happens on good days), but Instigator builds are more Aggro in that you are always putting pressure on the opponent with Lackeys and mana denial.
That's exactly it though, you don't want to trade creatures because you have to pay more for them? I would block a Nimble Mongoose or Wild Nacatl, with a Matron and Ringleader More often than Not, because they have already provided me with cards I wouldn't trade creature for creature with SGC, Warchief, Chieftain, or one of those engine Gobs, but everything else is fair game because of their inherent card advantage. 1 of the opponents cards is always worth more than 1 of ours.
Warchief kind of encourages over-extention, because a full hand of goblins isn't often enough to overcome the creatures/removal you are facing on turn five in most Legacy games. Lategame, being when you already have mana superiority and are topdecking, Chieftain is strictly better than Warchief, who is now a Goblin Chariot. I've gone back to Warchiefs from time to time, and I am convinced that it is weaker than the alternatives at certain points of the game.
From experience, you don't worry about sweepers as much if you play it right, you can force them early, or just drop Matrons and Ringleaders, who are really just bonus babies. > with regards to board sweeper CA.
You also have better play on mulligans since you are less likely to draw the land that Warchief depends on, and face it, the first Warchief almost never resolves or survives unless a Lackey already took the removal.
Goblin Chieftain boosts each individual goblin enough that, considering my playstyle, I can afford to make somewhat reckless decisions.
To me, Warchief is a prerequisite to broken things rather than a broken thing itself.
I would like someone to convince me in-depth what Warchief does that makes it better than what I've been advocating.
Warchief has been a mainstay for Goblins for many years now for a reason. First and foremost, he helps with manascrew. Through variance, you will find that some games you are simply tight on mana. He alleviates this problem. In the same way that something would be fair at 3, becomes broken at two. This turns Goblin Matron into a 1/1 with the casting cost of Demonic Tutor. How many times have you matron'ed into matron into piledriver and swung with 5 goblins? You CANNOT do this with chieftain. He synergizes and streamlines your plan of controlling the game and then combo'ing out when your opponent least expects it. He allows you to recover faster off of sweepers as well. The only thing that should convince you to never play less than 3 of him, is that he turns Goblin Ringleader into a three mana cost creature. That is incredibly awesome. Not only that, but they stack well with each other. Multiple Warchiefs lead to 1 mana costed matrons, 2 costed ringleaders, and 3 costed siege-gang commanders. If the board position is even or you are ahead, landing a warchief into play secures the game because it is the engine that enables the exploiveness of this deck to shine
The only argument that I could see for Chieftain over him is that he has the +1/+1 ability which helps in stalemates or when you are pushing for damage, and he's better in the late, late game where mana doesn't matter anymore. But rarely are games like this when for so long, Goblin decks are blowing their wastelands on non-basics, and porting (mana efficiency) to keep them off a color or keep manascrew. Simply put, Chieftain doesn't make everything undercosted in the Goblin decks.
Goblin matron is our Snapcaster mage. Can you imagine how bad Snapcaster mage would be if it cost 3? That is how much BETTER each goblin in our deck becomes with just 1 warchief in play.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoboLord
[B][SIZE="5"]
[/COLOR]…some players consider
Goblin Chieftain to be equal in power and even cut Warchief to run more Chieftains? I have seen this discussion very often (and even tried it out myself) – all of them came to the conclusion that it’s not worth running less than 3 Warchiefs. So, never replace them with Chieftains!
I do not doubt that chietain works well in a build with 4 WInstigators, but just present some tournament results with that. I see synergy in Lackey, Winstigator, Chieftain and multiple SGC, BUT it's the same with Warchief, Piledriver, Prospector, MWM and Gemplam.
You could also consider not to run Vials at all, which lets you run 4 Bolts instead, but it reduces your 1 drops to 4-so maybe reconsidering Moxes again? I dunno just an idea...
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Fellow warchiefs, is retribution of the meek a viable SB card instead of running perish? Both deal with Progenitus, but retribution removes large untargetable creatures of all colours.
I am considering RBG double splash with Perish and Grips, or just a single splash with STP MB, and disenchants and retribution of the meek SB. (yes disenchants are less reliable than grips, but i also get stp)
I just worry that splashing 2 colours is more vulnerable, and i always want artifact / enchantment removal for my meta. Plus large creature removal (and normal combo and graveyard hate which both options can cover)
Should retribution of the meek be in the untested section of the primer?
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
this is my current decklist, feel free to leave feedback
//Lands [21]
4 wasteland
4 arid mesa
4 scalding tarn
2 badlands
2 taiga
5 mountains
//Core [26]:
//Others [14]:
4 warren instigator
4 gempalm incinerator
4 warren weirding
1 goblin sharpshooter
//sideboard
4 leyline of the void
4 krosan grip
4 mindbreak trap
3 earwig squad
i want to add 1 wort, boggart auntie to my main deck, but i am unsure what to remove. i was leaning towards removing 1 warren instigator, because i like to have 8 solid removal spells so my lackey hits more consistently. and warren weirding is too good against goyf, kotr, and emrakul not to run 4 of.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dagoblinguy
this is my current decklist, feel free to leave feedback
//Lands [21]
4 wasteland
4 arid mesa
4 scalding tarn
2 badlands
2 taiga
5 mountains
//Core [26]:
//Others [13]:
4 warren instigator
4 gempalm incinerator
4 warren weirding
1 goblin sharpshooter
//sideboard
4 leyline of the void
4 krosan grip
4 mindbreak trap
3 earwig squad
i want to add 1 wort, boggart auntie to my main deck, but i am unsure what to remove. i was leaning towards removing 1 warren instigator, because i like to have 8 solid removal spells so my lackey hits more consistently. and warren weirding is too good against goyf, kotr, and emrakul not to run 4 of.
4 WW MD means you almost always need a black scource, which is quite hard with only 2 badlands and so many wastelands around out there. I would also include 1 Stinger MD. Since you play 4 Grips in the board you don't need more artifact-removal. Still I would include something tutorable for swords and/or jitte. You also missed the best SB card when spalshing black: PERISH! I also believe in 22+ lands in each gobbo list, although we have lackey, WInstigator and Vial, you might have to hardcast SCG or play around opposing Wastelands with more landdrops. Why don't you play ports? So how does this look for you:
Lands 22:
7 Fetches
4 Badlands
2 Taiga
4 Wasteland
5 Mountain
Core 26
Flex 12
4 Incinerator
2 Warren Weirding
1 Stingscourger
2 WInstigator
1 Wort
1 Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk
SB 15
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Earwig Squad
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Perish
2 KGrip
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dagoblinguy
this is my current decklist, feel free to leave feedback
//Lands [21]
4 wasteland
4 arid mesa
4 scalding tarn
2 badlands
2 taiga
5 mountains
//Core [26]:
//Others [14]:
4 warren instigator
4 gempalm incinerator
4 warren weirding
1 goblin sharpshooter
//sideboard
4 leyline of the void
4 krosan grip
4 mindbreak trap
3 earwig squad
i want to add 1 wort, boggart auntie to my main deck, but i am unsure what to remove. i was leaning towards removing 1 warren instigator, because i like to have 8 solid removal spells so my lackey hits more consistently. and warren weirding is too good against goyf, kotr, and emrakul not to run 4 of.
I've never played x4 Instigator without at least three Lightning Bolt. I was testing a black splash without them and I really didn't like how much more sluggish it felt than the mono red version I had been playing.
I feel a bit like the king of fools for assuming that the black splash without bolt would be able to make Warren Instigator as consistently good as I've found it to be. Under certain situation, I would prefer to play the standard 26 card core in black splash goblins. The advantage Mono Red gains from playing fifteen mountains is huge.
I'd cut a couple Instigators because I really don't like them without Chieftains, but if you've found some reason to like them with Warchief which I have not, I'd cut Sharpshooter, and two WW for three Lightning Bolts. Otherwise, I'd cut two Instigators and a Weirding for three Lightning Bolt.
Or, you could the Sharpshooter and play Auntie and that's it.
You have no extra tools for aggro in your sideboard, but from the card selection it seems like you might never play against another aggro deck. If you do expect to face aggro, you have to resolve that issue by looking at your meta (Perish or Pyrokinesis), which you are mostly likely already aware of.
I've come to regret my rejection over more traditional builds, although they still don't give me access to my preferred play-style. Anything is fair game, and I simply advocate options that the deck builder had that was typically written-off for all intents and purposes.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
i play R/B all the way. just add hovels - they wont put u at a disadv. + 4 BSM + 1 Swamp. ive only had one game in hundreds where B didnt come when i needed it. WW is just awesom. id not play StingC.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
orcanmail
Fellow warchiefs, is retribution of the meek a viable SB card instead of running perish? Both deal with Progenitus, but retribution removes large untargetable creatures of all colours.
I am considering RBG double splash with Perish and Grips, or just a single splash with STP MB, and disenchants and retribution of the meek SB. (yes disenchants are less reliable than grips, but i also get stp)
I just worry that splashing 2 colours is more vulnerable, and i always want artifact / enchantment removal for my meta. Plus large creature removal (and normal combo and graveyard hate which both options can cover)
Should retribution of the meek be in the untested section of the primer?
Before this post gets lost in the other discussions. I do think Retribution of the Meek is a very good alternative for Perish. Especially since it kills all the troublesome reanimator targets aswell as the usual Goyfs/KotR, it just misses out on the Nacatls but we can deal with those with incinerators already.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Played the list I posted before at my usual Sunday legacy tournament and got second due to tie breaks (we don't play out for winner, just until only one person is undefeated).
Round 1 I won 2-0 against UB ANT. He kept a poor hand game one, and fizzled game two.
Round 2 I played against UW stoneblade tying 1-1. Game 1 he mulled down to 5 and I had the nutz. Game 2 he mulled down to 6 and kept the best possible 6 including his one wrath.
Round 3 was the mirror against a new player, and I easily won 2-0.
Round 4 was Reanimator which I won 2-1 thanks to the 4 LotV in my board plus WW.
