[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

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Originally Posted by echofish

And the fact that it gets your goyfs bigger than anglers and smashers.

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Yes, very relevant in this meta, to get Goyf as big as possible. I was worried about having a lack of sorcery cards to grow him with by replacing a Forked Bolt, but Probe does a fantastic job at that. If anything in my flex spots, Probe is the one that has been amazing. I feel like 2 extra counters and 2 extra burns are all that is needed, while Probe maps out your gameplan game 1, but is an easy shave/cut for more potent sideboard cards in games 2/3, especially if you are bringing in Dismembers. I dont think you can play Probes and Dismembers in the same 60.

Moral of the story, try Probes, too.

Some of you might find this interesting. It's a bit late, but here's my GP Ghent 2012 tournament report: Canadian Threshold at GP Ghent 2012 – Top 32

One of the reasons I am writing this now is that I have picked up the deck again with essentially the same maindeck and a functionally very similar sideboard. My new decklist is included at the end of the report as well.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander

Some of you might find this interesting. It's a bit late, but here's my GP Ghent 2012 tournament report: Canadian Threshold at GP Ghent 2012 – Top 32

One of the reasons I am writing this now is that I have picked up the deck again with essentially the same maindeck and a functionally very similar sideboard. My new decklist is included at the end of the report as well.

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There are more experienced players of this archetype than I on this board, so what I'm about to say might be totally wrong: I don't like reducing the Tarmogoyf count in the current metagame.

For a card worth so much money, Tarmogoyf was never considered anything too complicated. Yet with Eldrazi Aggro becoming a Tier 1 deck, Tarmogoyf remains an important part of the formula that makes Canadian Threshold the deck that it is. Stifle is a dead card against Eldrazi, but in this match-up, Tarmogoyf keeps us from being entirely outclassed on the battlefield - Tarmogoyf gets an extra boost because the Eldrazi lists run artifacts. I like main decking Dismember. Counter spell as a 1-of is interesting, because people won't be expecting it. There's a lot of other interesting stuff going on in this list, Winter Orb is kinda cool, but when it comes to Goyf and your threat density, you want to reconsider. Don't underestimate Eldrazi, it's a doable matchup, but you need creatures on the field to stand up to that kind of board pressure.

Tarmogoyf is better than it has been in a long time, yes. The third Tarmogoyf is certainly debatable, and Kai is currently trying a list with three copies. I will likely start testing that list soon as well. There are some things to keep in mind though:

1) Tarmogoyf is not the only good creature against Eldrazi decks. In fact, I think Delver is better most of the time even there, plus we bring True-Names from the sideboard.
2) Eldrazi might be one of the most popular and successful decks right now, but it's far from the only one.
3) There is a limit to how many creatures you want to have in your deck. 12 (after sideboarding) is a lot.
4) I'm playing in Europe mostly, where we have a much higher density of combo decks than North America or the APAC region.

In general, it's less about how good or bad Tarmogoyf is and more about the number creatures you have in your deck. Both Nimble Mongoose and Delver are just so much better than Goyf that Goyf is the one to cut. Ciro Bonaventura's second place list from GP Amsterdam also had only 11 creatures, it's just that he cut a Mongoose rather than a Tarmogoyf.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander

Tarmogoyf is better than it has been in a long time, yes. The third Tarmogoyf is certainly debatable, and Kai is currently trying a list with three copies. I will likely start testing that list soon as well. There are some things to keep in mind though:

1) Tarmogoyf is not the only good creature against Eldrazi decks. In fact, I think Delver is better most of the time even there, plus we bring True-Names from the sideboard.
2) Eldrazi might be one of the most popular and successful decks right now, but it's far from the only one.
3) There is a limit to how many creatures you want to have in your deck. 12 (after sideboarding) is a lot.
4) I'm playing in Europe mostly, where we have a much higher density of combo decks than North America or the APAC region.

In general, it's less about how good or bad Tarmogoyf is and more about the number creatures you have in your deck. Both Nimble Mongoose and Delver are just so much better than Goyf that Goyf is the one to cut. Ciro Bonaventura's second place list from GP Amsterdam also had only 11 creatures, it's just that he cut a Mongoose rather than a Tarmogoyf.

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But watching Ciro playing the deck you cant help the feeling he has no idea what is he doing. ;-)

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Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander

Tarmogoyf is better than it has been in a long time, yes. The third Tarmogoyf is certainly debatable, and Kai is currently trying a list with three copies. I will likely start testing that list soon as well. There are some things to keep in mind though:

1) Tarmogoyf is not the only good creature against Eldrazi decks. In fact, I think Delver is better most of the time even there, plus we bring True-Names from the sideboard.
2) Eldrazi might be one of the most popular and successful decks right now, but it's far from the only one.
3) There is a limit to how many creatures you want to have in your deck. 12 (after sideboarding) is a lot.
4) I'm playing in Europe mostly, where we have a much higher density of combo decks than North America or the APAC region.

In general, it's less about how good or bad Tarmogoyf is and more about the number creatures you have in your deck. Both Nimble Mongoose and Delver are just so much better than Goyf that Goyf is the one to cut. Ciro Bonaventura's second place list from GP Amsterdam also had only 11 creatures, it's just that he cut a Mongoose rather than a Tarmogoyf.

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I don't think TNN is that good against Eldrazi. Remember that smasher has trample.

I found myself to be the aggressor in the matchup. Blocking doesn't come up much.

Your Decklist is quit interessting. Never thought about cutting Goyfs but did it for testing yesterday (3 Goyf, 1 Librabry, 3 snare, 1 Pierce , 0 Counterspell). I Crushed Miracles multiple times and i think this it what the Deck is configurated for.
I can see problems facing down other Goyf/Angler Decks with your list pre-Board (3 Submerge in the postboard games are great but Angler cant be subermerged most of the time). This is why i like 2 Dismember a lot in this Deck (I cut a Flexcounter). The 7. Removal is also resonable because most T1 Decks are creaturebased.

The Snare/Pierce Split is always a Meta-Call. I will test 3 Snare and 1 Pierce for a while (Not playing "my" 2nd Dismember) and give you a reply.

Your Arguments for Counterspell are fine (I actually think Snare is the best counter against Miracles ;-)) but it still looks awkward for me.... I will give it a try, at least :cool:.

The Sideboard looks ok to me. I really like Flusterstorm and think you should play at least 1 (remember Miracles brings 3 of them). The TNNs aren`t looking to me (I see its utility against Miracles and Eldrazi). Is this your answer to Angler? Do you bring it against DNT? Iam asking because of the dissynergy with rough//tumble.

Best regards
Homason

Im thinking on going back to my rug...looking through list i found some as the follow that use loam and vortex in sb:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19532&iddeck=148615

In which matches those cards come inside?

thx!!!

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

Im thinking on going back to my rug...looking through list i found some as the follow that use loam and vortex in sb:

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19532&iddeck=148615

In which matches those cards come inside?

thx!!!

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I'm not sure about Loam, but I do run Sulfuric Vortex. I bring Sulfuric Vortex in against control decks, life gain, and ironically enough, I've had some success against Eldrazi with Vortex as well.

Loam is often sideboarded in for grindier matchups like Jund or the mirror, but I've always felt it was too slow. Loam/Waste lock doesn't come up that often, and I'd rather play something like Pithing Needle (or just hold up Stifle) to protect my own lands.

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Originally Posted by keys

Loam is often sideboarded in for grindier matchups like Jund or the mirror, but I've always felt it was too slow. Loam/Waste lock doesn't come up that often, and I'd rather play something like Pithing Needle (or just hold up Stifle) to protect my own lands.

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And clique?

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

And clique?

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Vendilion Clique is good against Miracles. You can respond to the Miracle trigger and make them discard. I also bring Clique in against Sneakshow, Eldrazi, or any deck where I think having hand-attack or an extra threat could be helpful. It's a very versatile card. I would NOT recommend bringing Clique in against Storm, or the Delver Mirror due to its mana cost being too high for those match-ups.

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Originally Posted by Drake0525

Vendilion Clique is good against Miracles. You can respond to the Miracle trigger and make them discard. I also bring Clique in against Sneakshow, Eldrazi, or any deck where I think having hand-attack or an extra threat could be helpful. It's a very versatile card. I would NOT recommend bringing Clique in against Storm, or the Delver Mirror due to its mana cost being too high for those match-ups.

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Clique is superb against Storm. Don't listen to this.

Clique is actually terrible against both Storm and Miracles. Way too clunky and low impact.

Loam is a trap card in RUG, considering we never want our games to go long and the corner case where you waste-lock your opponent will almost never happen.

I like Clique against both storm and miracles.

Against storm- You can leave up mana for permission and cast it EOT so you never have to let your counter wall down. You can punish them for not sequencing their spells correctly and put something like an infernal tutor on the bottom of their deck while their last ritual is on the stack.

Against miracles - Lowers density of 1/2 CMC threats. Can screw with their miracle trigger and ambush jace. is not a graveyard dependent threat.

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Originally Posted by rlesko

Loam is a trap card in RUG, considering we never want our games to go long and the corner case where you waste-lock your opponent will almost never happen.

I like Clique against both storm and miracles.

Against storm- You can leave up mana for permission and cast it EOT so you never have to let your counter wall down. You can punish them for not sequencing their spells correctly and put something like an infernal tutor on the bottom of their deck while their last ritual is on the stack.

Against miracles - Lowers density of 1/2 CMC threats. Can screw with their miracle trigger and ambush jace. is not a graveyard dependent threat.

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I agree with most of this except loam. I wouldn't say it's a trap card so much as it's a gamble. Sometimes it works other times it flops kind of like stifle in some match ups. That aside if you expect like 1 lands player in a small weekly is worth it. That match up alone makes loam worth the slot since wasteland is a counter vs their 20/20. It also helps break up maze or chasm locks.

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Originally Posted by Contract Killer

I agree with most of this except loam. I wouldn't say it's a trap card so much as it's a gamble. Sometimes it works other times it flops kind of like stifle in some match ups. That aside if you expect like 1 lands player in a small weekly is worth it. That match up alone makes loam worth the slot since wasteland is a counter vs their 20/20. It also helps break up maze or chasm locks.

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I have a hard time going along with the plan of casting life from the loam against lands. They are most likely focused on waste-locking you, and since they have extra land drops per turn, it seems like a losing proposition. The best way to beat them is to attack them with Nimble Mongoose. Depending on the board state, don't play your Wasteland out, its safer in your hand.

I wrote a few things about the sideboard Winter Orb / Painful Truths list I have been toying around with recently: #theweeklywars #10 — Canadian Threshold

Talking about the Æther Vial matchups, Miracles, Shardless and touching upon Loam strategies.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander

Clique is actually terrible against both Storm and Miracles. Way too clunky and low impact.

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I beg to differ: Clique in response to ritual is backbreaking.

Instant speed Thoughtseize + clock is amazing against all forms of combo and totally worth the 3cc.

You can cast it with Miracle trigger on the stack to take away Terminus.

Edit: rlesko beat me to it