[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

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Originally Posted by meso94

Hi, i'm really interested in this deck...i want to switch from Modern to Legacy cause of bad speculation on the format that i think that are ridicolous...so I put my eyes on this deck that i think is really fun and strong to play, but i have some questions on it:

- What is the best conformation of the deck?? I really like the Punishing Fire version, but i saw also the Birthing Pod and BG based...what is the best for you? and why?

- What are the best and worse Matchups for this deck? Is it a good choice? I hate blue based deck, so ithnk that this deck is good for me

I hope you will reply me and sorry if i made mistakes, but i want to be part of this discussion in a few mounths

Thanks a lot
meso94

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

There is no best version -- it's all personal taste and meta calls. All of the main trunks are equally viable, and most of the side branches are at least marginally viable. It's all on you to find what you like.

Best matchups tend to be tempo strategies and control decks; worst matchups are combo of most varieties. You can usually pick a couple combo decks to hate out postboard, but there will always be a couple of decks you are <20% to win vs.

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This, basicly you play NicFit in the flavor you like and the best suited for your meta. The deck is a ton of fun, but playing it correct is difficult and intensive.

You can either go with regular NicFit lists building on Green Sun's Zenith and adapting color specific cards that are obviously great. Or use the Birthing Pod engine. This one is often less consistent, but can have total blowouts. The power to fetch specific silver bullets not being green makes Pod really strong. And then there are the combo variants which rely on the Veteran/Cabal Therapy interaction and its main core to build up towards a game-ending combo.
So:
Green Sun's Zenith builds
Birthing Pod builds
Combo finish builds

Every color splash bring its own stuff:
White: Gaddock Teeg, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Stoneforge Mystic, Siege Rhino, Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile, Karakas and white hatebears.
Red: Punishing Fire, Slaughter Games, Huntmaster of the Fells, Stormbreath Dragon, Broodmate Dragon, Blood Moon and Burning Wish.
Blue: Brainstorm, Snapcaster Mage, Baleful Strix, Vendilion Clique, Force of Will, Dig Through Time, Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Glen-Elendra Archmage.
Straight GB: Hymn to Tourach, Grave Titan, etc.

All has their own strengths and weaknesses, but one thing is really difficult to fight for NicFit: Every deck that gets bigger like MUD or Turbo Eldrazi. Plus quick EOT Marit Lage is also near unwinnable. Aside of this, the faster the combo the more difficult is will be to defeat them. This counts basicly for every variation.

So in Jund we have:
Punishing Fire builds
Scapewish builds

in Junk:
Siege Rhino builds
Stoneforge Mystic builds
Academy Rector builds
Birthing Pod builds

in BUG:
No zenith control (basicly this is NicFit core without GSZ, but additional blue cardadvantage and mostly blue creatures and JACE).
Birthing Pod builds

plus a bunch of other better and worse builds. NicFit goes in a lot of directions, but one thing is always key with NicFit: Do not overextend. Synergy, efficiency and relevance (to the deck and the format) are to be kept in mind, while experimenting is always fine.

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

This, basicly you play NicFit in the flavor you like and the best suited for your meta. The deck is a ton of fun, but playing it correct is difficult and intensive.

You can either go with regular NicFit lists building on Green Sun's Zenith and adapting color specific cards that are obviously great. Or use the Birthing Pod engine. This one is often less consistent, but can have total blowouts. The power to fetch specific silver bullets not being green makes Pod really strong. And then there are the combo variants which rely on the Veteran/Cabal Therapy interaction and its main core to build up towards a game-ending combo.
So:
Green Sun's Zenith builds
Birthing Pod builds
Combo finish builds

Every color splash bring its own stuff:
White: Gaddock Teeg, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Stoneforge Mystic, Siege Rhino, Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile, Karakas and white hatebears.
Red: Punishing Fire, Slaughter Games, Huntmaster of the Fells, Stormbreath Dragon, Broodmate Dragon, Blood Moon and Burning Wish.
Blue: Brainstorm, Snapcaster Mage, Baleful Strix, Vendilion Clique, Force of Will, Dig Through Time, Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Glen-Elendra Archmage.
Straight GB: Hymn to Tourach, Grave Titan, etc.

All has their own strengths and weaknesses, but one thing is really difficult to fight for NicFit: Every deck that gets bigger like MUD or Turbo Eldrazi. Plus quick EOT Marit Lage is also near unwinnable. Aside of this, the faster the combo the more difficult is will be to defeat them. This counts basicly for every variation.

So in Jund we have:
Punishing Fire builds
Scapewish builds

in Junk:
Siege Rhino builds
Stoneforge Mystic builds
Academy Rector builds
Birthing Pod builds

in BUG:
No zenith control (basicly this is NicFit core without GSZ, but additional blue cardadvantage and mostly blue creatures and JACE).
Birthing Pod builds

plus a bunch of other better and worse builds. NicFit goes in a lot of directions, but one thing is always key with NicFit: Do not overextend. Synergy, efficiency and relevance (to the deck and the format) are to be kept in mind, while experimenting is always fine.

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I look at some lists of the Punishing Fire version that i think is the most suitable for my style of playing...I will test it a lot before star buying cards i miss, i really like your decklist with some tech like Vraska or double slaughter Games mainboard...I will try it and then develop my idea and make changes where is possible...i have another question: is Liliana of the Veil essential for this deck? i think that the answer is yes, but i see some lists without her, so i'm asking to you :smile:

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Originally Posted by meso94

I look at some lists of the Punishing Fire version that i think is the most suitable for my style of playing...I will test it a lot before star buying cards i miss, i really like your decklist with some tech like Vraska or double slaughter Games mainboard...I will try it and then develop my idea and make changes where is possible...i have another question: is Liliana of the Veil essential for this deck? i think that the answer is yes, but i see some lists without her, so i'm asking to you [emoji2]

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Yeah, punishing fires lists run very smooth, but i have found that small changes have a huge influence on how the deck plays. More then i innitially expected.

I say Liliana as an essential card in this deck and also as a 3-off. The reason for this is that when played at the right time she puts the nails in the coffin for the game. Combined with Pfire+Grove interaction she gains "reversed" cardadvantage. Also he -2 ability gives you reach to creatures otherwise unreachable and she helps to clear the board in your goal to reach full board control once you hit mid/lategame.
I tried running 2 at a time i was feeling she didn't bring what i wanted. But then i was finding myself missing her. Then it became more clear of her role in the deck.
My current build runs a 2-off of Stormbreath Dragon. While resolving the creature it is often backbreaking to certain decks. But also i have been very impressed by both MD Slaughter Games and especially Vraska. But choices are to be made. Vraska fits better in a Primeval Titan list. While Stormbreath Dragon more in a removal heavy build. Slaughter Games is better when supported by more discard. All will not fit together. So your meta and preference will have to be considered to the exact 75 (76). The list i had most succes with was during the Treasure Cruise era:

3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the fells
1 Thragrusk
1 Primeval Titan // Rampaging Baloth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vraska the Unseen
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire

Side:
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Extirpate
2 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Toxic Deluge

Stormbreath Dragon: RR on the casting cost pushes to hard on the manabase. The above configuration is more reliable. Thus if focussed on red, then i guess the list has to be reworked more and dropping cards like Courser and a number of GSZ for more discard and MD Slaughter Games. Also no room for Vraska and probably not for Thrun and PrimeTime. My overall conclusion of the last couple of tournaments requires me to rebuild into an deck that would need far more testing and will start to look more like the list Ralf was playing with the Demigod's. I have reworked the list:


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 / 4 Verdant Catacombs with 4 going to 61 cards.
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire

Side
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Slaughter Games
2 Blood Moon
2 Extirpate
1 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pithing Needle
2 Duress


4 Deathrite Shaman: this enables better early game development and forces your opponent into answering threats early on. This actually helps in draining your opponent faster. Being able to keep the board clear, the hand empry and zenith into Courser and one or more Huntmasters pushes the deck eventually in an inholdable board while also stabilizing life drops. No more answers for them. This combination fits more in a list that fully supports GSZ and Vraska (as an alternate win/board control element). Here i cannot conclude if i want PrimeTime or Rampaging Baloth to push Courser/Veteran Explorer interaction over the top.

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Originally Posted by tilzinger

I'm probably going to a LGS tomorrow (Meadhall) and play Legacy for the first time not on Cockatrice or against my friend. <snip>

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I'll see if I can make it to give you some input (I haven't been to mead in ages)

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Originally Posted by jbone2016

I'll see if I can make it to give you some input (I haven't been to mead in ages)

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Plans changed, life happens. Maybe next week :/

I'm having a strange experience where every time I look at Dragonlord Dromoka, it sprouts another line of text that I somehow missed the last time I read it. I'm not sure what to do with this information. I'm still not crazy that it has no protection and is essentially a BDB (big dumb beater), whereas other options like Sun Titan at least have a trigger.....but cripes is it ever efficient.

I'm starting to think about magic more often again, so I'll probably be returning to active play before too terribly long. I need to get in fighting shape for Eternal Weekend -- no idea what I'm going to play, though. I've drifted back towards my blue roots a bit since the only magic I've been playing on break is vintage, so I'll probably be exploring in blue unless the omnipresent siren call of Baneslayer drags me back to white.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I'm having a strange experience where every time I look at Dragonlord Dromoka, it sprouts another line of text that I somehow missed the last time I read it. I'm not sure what to do with this information. I'm still not crazy that it has no protection and is essentially a BDB (big dumb beater), whereas other options like Sun Titan at least have a trigger.....but cripes is it ever efficient.

I'm starting to think about magic more often again, so I'll probably be returning to active play before too terribly long. I need to get in fighting shape for Eternal Weekend -- no idea what I'm going to play, though. I've drifted back towards my blue roots a bit since the only magic I've been playing on break is vintage, so I'll probably be exploring in blue unless the omnipresent siren call of Baneslayer drags me back to white.

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Can't have it all huh, Dragonlord Dromoka does its wotk on another level then Sigarda i guess.
Sun Titan is, for me, still the reason to run Junk. I like Siege Rhino and all, but i found the utility SFM + Equip provides far more flexible. Especially when combining cmc =< 3 Equipment with Sun Titan. In this case running SoLaS over Recurring Nightmare. Also i just can't let go of the ultimate Sun Titan + Pernicious Deed lock.

That said, i feel that in the current meta blue is where you want to be. I switched to BUGStill, since i haven't cracked my personal ultimate blue list (yet). But it should be running at least 10 CA cards which are Brainstorm, DTT and some buildspecific utility. Also the question is going full GSZ or non-GSZ. Adding Planeswalker is a must here, tell me a reason not to run Jace and friends. Also, running MD Force of Will would be cool, but a counterpackage main and like say 3-4 FoW side. So far:

4 Veteran Explorer
7/8 flex creatures

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Brainstorm
2 Dig Through Time
4 x CA

1/2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 flex walker (Garruk, Kiora, Vraska)

21/22 lands (Creeping Tar, 2 tower).

Hey all. What is your opinion on the current state of Scapeshift NicFit? Is it fit to compete in the current meta?

I tested a list quite similar to the last ones presented in this thread. The evaluation of Stormbreath Dragon is still an issue for me. I tested without it and found Jace very problematic since I didn't run the Punishing package (Punishing Scapeshift is not a thing). So my hopes for the dragon are mostly of a Jace-slaying nature but I am of course hesitant due to it not beeing greenish.
Did anyone recently try the Birthing Pod in non-blue lists, to find e.g. a Stormbreath Dragon off a miser Baloth/Huntmaster?

So I'm currently evaluating whether I should stick with Scapeshift or play the Junk version (optional SFM package). Maybe even a straightforward GB list with Hymn is a good shot atm?

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Can't have it all huh, Dragonlord Dromoka does its wotk on another level then Sigarda i guess.
Sun Titan is, for me, still the reason to run Junk. I like Siege Rhino and all, but i found the utility SFM + Equip provides far more flexible. Especially when combining cmc =< 3 Equipment with Sun Titan. In this case running SoLaS over Recurring Nightmare. Also i just can't let go of the ultimate Sun Titan + Pernicious Deed lock.

That said, i feel that in the current meta blue is where you want to be. I switched to BUGStill, since i haven't cracked my personal ultimate blue list (yet). But it should be running at least 10 CA cards which are Brainstorm, DTT and some buildspecific utility. Also the question is going full GSZ or non-GSZ. Adding Planeswalker is a must here, tell me a reason not to run Jace and friends. Also, running MD Force of Will would be cool, but a counterpackage main and like say 3-4 FoW side. So far:

4 Veteran Explorer
7/8 flex creatures

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Brainstorm
2 Dig Through Time
4 x CA

1/2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 flex walker (Garruk, Kiora, Vraska)

21/22 lands (Creeping Tar, 2 tower).

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Check out the BUG list a few pages back with thrags and tasigurs

@Bobman - For your "flex" creatures I think you will want half of those to be baleful strix or snap caster. I am on 2/2 right now but with more omni and miracles snapcaster would probably be a better bet. I wouldnt go up to 4 but 3 maybe. I see you wanted to run some counter magic in pierce or CS. If you do then I think Snap is probably better. If you see tons of midrange or tempo than baleful strix would be better though.

I would also skip Tasigur right now and run 3 Digs. That card is insane and I think if your not playing 3-4 of that card then your doing something wrong. I thought Tasigur was a good call (and he is good) but Dig through time is way better. Especially after board against omni and miracles where we find actual good cards. I also replaced 1 Tusk with Thrun.

I also dropped 1 Decay main for a pulse main. Feels like a fairly netural swap that is much better against miracles but slightly worse against tempo decks. I also moved a Glen elndra to the side as I think it may be better than smth like Tusk right now.

I also will probably be moving the 2 manlands out because the early turns are too important to take off right now.

My advice is run 3 jace. You want him every game and you want multiple a game so you dont have to worry so much about protecting him. 1 Lily is fine, I run 2 but I see tons of miracles and omni lately (though I have havent been to many tournys in the last 2 weeks). I honestly dont get people fascination with Vraska, especially when people play it in a non blue deck without a shuffle that card seems soooo bad but its a 2 for 1 on permanents over 2 turns i guess. If you want another walker Garruk isnt bad, sacing vet or snap to find thrun or glen elndra or notion thief isnt horrible.

^^ Yeah his deck.

Did you play it yesterday? The Mead's twitch wasn't working last night so I didn't get to watch.

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

@Bobman - For your "flex" creatures I think you will want half of those to be baleful strix or snap caster. I am on 2/2 right now but with more omni and miracles snapcaster would probably be a better bet. I wouldnt go up to 4 but 3 maybe. I see you wanted to run some counter magic in pierce or CS. If you do then I think Snap is probably better. If you see tons of midrange or tempo than baleful strix would be better though.

I would also skip Tasigur right now and run 3 Digs. That card is insane and I think if your not playing 3-4 of that card then your doing something wrong. I thought Tasigur was a good call (and he is good) but Dig through time is way better. Especially after board against omni and miracles where we find actual good cards. I also replaced 1 Tusk with Thrun.

I also dropped 1 Decay main for a pulse main. Feels like a fairly netural swap that is much better against miracles but slightly worse against tempo decks. I also moved a Glen elndra to the side as I think it may be better than smth like Tusk right now.

I also will probably be moving the 2 manlands out because the early turns are too important to take off right now.

My advice is run 3 jace. You want him every game and you want multiple a game so you dont have to worry so much about protecting him. 1 Lily is fine, I run 2 but I see tons of miracles and omni lately (though I have havent been to many tournys in the last 2 weeks). I honestly dont get people fascination with Vraska, especially when people play it in a non blue deck without a shuffle that card seems soooo bad but its a 2 for 1 on permanents over 2 turns i guess. If you want another walker Garruk isnt bad, sacing vet or snap to find thrun or glen elndra or notion thief isnt horrible.

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Thank you for your respons. With your comments i would probably go for:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragrusk
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Brainstorm
2 Dig Through Time (dont have the 3rd)

1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
3 Thoughtseize

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Vraska the Unseen

21/22 lands (1 Creeping Tar, 2 tower).

Ill edit for Vraska comments later.

@Star-scream- I did not play yesterday, was out of town with the wife but may end up doing a tournament this weekend if I find the time otherwise next wed.

@Bobmans- I am not sure of the 3 TS, that seems super deep on discard. I run 2/3 in the board to bring in and thats usually fine. Plus you have clique for that effect as well. But with all the omni around I dont hate more discard. I dont like the spell pierce though, I would rather see smth like dispel or envelop but ymmv.

I have a love hate relationship with CTP, it is very useful for killing jace and usually with vet going off and lower curve than most of these GSZ based lists the cipt aspect doesnt usually end up mattering but it can be annoying when you have it in the opening hand with just 1 other land. I dont mind the stronghold but do not run tower. The turn 2 jace or whatever isnt your play usually anyway and the colorless aspect WILL matter imo. This goes back to the way I play the deck though, I use vet/therapy less as ramp and more as a way to cheat on lands in a control deck as well as allowing me to play with therapy which is the busted. If you prefer vet to play just a series of bombs than tower fits that play style pretty well but I think that strategy is way more affected by variance (good luck if your tempo opponent knows to not let vet/gsz resolve or you dont draw it) and also I just thnk that mud and 12 post play that tactic much better. You moved to Bugstill (smth I was also considering) so I am guessing you have similar thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

@Star-scream- I did not play yesterday, was out of town with the wife but may end up doing a tournament this weekend if I find the time otherwise next wed.

@Bobmans- I am not sure of the 3 TS, that seems super deep on discard. I run 2/3 in the board to bring in and thats usually fine. Plus you have clique for that effect as well. But with all the omni around I dont hate more discard. I dont like the spell pierce though, I would rather see smth like dispel or envelop but ymmv.

I have a love hate relationship with CTP, it is very useful for killing jace and usually with vet going off and lower curve than most of these GSZ based lists the cipt aspect doesnt usually end up mattering but it can be annoying when you have it in the opening hand with just 1 other land. I dont mind the stronghold but do not run tower. The turn 2 jace or whatever isnt your play usually anyway and the colorless aspect WILL matter imo. This goes back to the way I play the deck though, I use vet/therapy less as ramp and more as a way to cheat on lands in a control deck as well as allowing me to play with therapy which is the busted. If you prefer vet to play just a series of bombs than tower fits that play style pretty well but I think that strategy is way more affected by variance (good luck if your tempo opponent knows to not let vet/gsz resolve or you dont draw it) and also I just thnk that mud and 12 post play that tactic much better. You moved to Bugstill (smth I was also considering) so I am guessing you have similar thoughts.

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Yeah, i pretty much have the same thoughts . Adding vet/therapy to bug has less value unless your going for something big. Wasteland, fow and Standstill (and loam + factory's) gives it a better edge i think now. it besicly runs a similar removal package while adding adding more cardadvantage. I was jamming some games with bugstill and played 1-2 dnt and 1-2 ant. Lost cus of variance and ran out of gas to fast. Couple of misplays, but then again, i was playing it for the second time. Theres a lot more potential in there.

Your right about Phyrexian Tower tho. Without witness and gsz it sucks a bit. Stronghold and Tar Pit remain. Those actually add some value. Same with Tasigur. A 4/5 body is often relevant and the ability just races the opponent. It is insane.

Vraska the Unseen is such a bomb. I have won so many games thru her. Basicly her +1 ability makes every creature with less then 3 power kinda akward for the opponent. Slowing Vraska ultimate and lose the creature or beating face and risk running into removal and her ultimate is sometimes a though choice. Het -3 is more of a panic button. It gives more reach over deed/decay. Removing Batteskull or other (big) stuff can totally make a difference. Het ultimate wins games. Especially on the grindy matchups she can close out games ignoring life total. Thats huge.

While variance is always a thing, she tends to show up in the long game and that is exactly where you want it.

Personlly I am not a big fan of phexian tower as a unitly land. It can be really good in really game with explorer but then in mid and late it sucks. Stronghold brings back powerful cretures back and wolf run make preasure with only one creature.

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Originally Posted by Ganfar

Personlly I am not a big fan of phexian tower as a unitly land. It can be really good in really game with explorer but then in mid and late it sucks. Stronghold brings back powerful cretures back and wolf run make preasure with only one creature.

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Phyrexian Tower and Volrath's Stonghold loops creatures like Eternal Witness or Thragtusk. Talking value here huh. [emoji12]

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

Phyrexian Tower and Volrath's Stonghold loops creatures like Eternal Witness or Thragtusk. Talking value here huh. [emoji12]

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The reason I like Tom4ik's list so much is because it does away with all of the cute durdly things like top and towers. We don't need to loop thragtusks. We just need to kill the opponent.

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Originally Posted by Star|Scream

The reason I like Tom4ik's list so much is because it does away with all of the cute durdly things like top and towers. We don't need to loop thragtusks. We just need to kill the opponent.

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Well if you run the blues then why bother indeed. But with pfire nicfit winning games often involves an active top. And plenty of games where i lock out the opponent with the towers loop and being able to setup for the kill.

http://s16.postimg.org/g16l43j05/punishing_fire.png

For those interested, here is the reworked version of Punishing Fire NicFit focused more on anti-combo and the punching power of Stormbreath Dragon, while also have the same tools to fight the fair.dec (if you can still call Dig Through Time control decks fair...)

Before reading the list, this version hasn't been tested yet. And it might have to wait until GP Lille passes. With my group we where discussing what deck to run at the GP and the conclusion was that, despite the effort and hard work, NicFit (non-blue) will not be the deck to play at the GP in the current meta. Also we concluded that for as long as Dig Through Time remains unbanned, run a deck with those in, no matter what it is. Personally i will focus on BUGStill for the tournament, simply because it is closest to NicFit (in a way) and it has ridiculous card advantage. Having that said, my love for Punishing Fire NicFit doesn't stop me from tuning it. I will bring it to GP Lille and play the list outside of the main events.

So for those who are thinking, why run this deck: Because of its grindy nature and absurd late-game development. It can out manoeuvre very complex boardstates. Then there is that feeling when you finally achieved "real" full board control.
And why this version over "regular" Punishing Fire lists: I found its weakness to be its early game. While its mid-/lategame is really strong, it tends to get to far behind to recover. Normally you could out grind an opponent, but decks develop so fast and have more tools to gain advantage. The glory days of my own Punishing Fire lists where when it had more early game development. Also with the current white control flooded meta (and DnT being tier 1) Stormbreath Dragon is a very powerful finisher, (nearly) every time it landed it stabilized and finished the game. The problem often was getting to that point. So why not combine the two. Early game development and raw punching power in the mid-/lategame.


3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Punishing Fire
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 3 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Blood Moon


3/4 Veteran Explorer and Deathrite Shaman: Deathrite Shaman enables more T1 plays that can accelerate your T2/3 plays. Also it puts pressure on your opponent. Often they will try to get rid of it and spend/waste resources. If you expect a Swords to Plowshares and you can cast Veteran Explorer as well you can use Deathrite Shaman to deflect that Swords to Plowshares to enable more chances to gain advantage out of Veteran Explorer. Because we run 4 Deathrite Shaman you can actually NOT care to lose them. Also because opponents will be forced to spend/waste recourses so early on you will have a less harder time to reach the mid-/lategame advantage. And with 7 manadorks it will even become inevitable to reach critical mass.

Scavenging Ooze: Long story short, this card just wins against Dredge while also being a solid beater versus various other decks. It will often become Tarmogoyf 2.0, but gaining you life in the process. For Reanimate it is a really strong follow-on after you have an active Deathrite Shaman, but relying on Scavenging Ooze is tricky, since it is a bit to slow against Reanimate.

Huntmaster of the Fells: I have chosen Huntmaster over Thrun, the Last Troll, because of two things. One, this decks runs 2 Strombreath Dragon's, which is already out of reach for a lot of this format's removal, while also his other abilities are better then Thruns'. And two, the abilities of Huntmaster are more useful then having another (dumb) beater. Against combo it is often a 3 turn clock, against Delver/creature based decks it is a nightmare when it starts flipping.

Thragtusk: His 5 life gain is often a lifesaver. He is probably one of the most important creatures involved while gaining full board control. He stabilizes your life loss after a grindy start. Especially against Burn he is important, but a lot of times i was able to stay alive just long enough to take over the game thanks to this dude.

Stormbreath Dragon: The number is simply 2, because you want to see the card every match-up, be able to lose one, while also not be clogging them up during early turn development. Having Haste makes it relevant against planeswalkers and Miracles. Also this means more pressure versus combo. Against combo i always leave 1 just to have the pressure if it shows up. Basically all the creatures in this list put up pressure against combo. A lot of times i have made it monstrous the turn after i landed it. Doing 2 damage on average and get 11 damage from attacking. I found this card overall better then Broodmate Dragon because Broodmate was removed more often then being able to stick for the win. Also the 6/6 Trample body of Primeval Titan is nothing compared to this scary dude.

3 Green Sun's Zenith: This is actually experimental. Because the deck is focused more on the T1/2 plays i believe it makes early game Green Sun's Zenith is less important. You want to card to start showing up from T3/4 on so why run all 4. Also with 2 Stormbreath Dragon as non green creatures and the low amount of green creatures in the deck you run out of Green Sun's Zenith targets faster. This is pure theory crafting, no testing yet.

3 Sensei's Divining Top: Some have said 4 to be the minimum, but they had a tendency to "flood". 3 has always seem to be the correct number. From midgame on card selection becomes so incredibly important. I will not stress enough that this card will make you gain that full board control. Simply just by being able to have a much higher chance to grab the card you need for that turn. Also Sensei's Divining Top will make you discard and Jace "proof". Floating a Slaughter Games against ANT has won me games against them trying to Duress and Cabal Therapy me.

4 Cabal Therapy and 3 Thoughtseize: Aside from 7 manadorks we now have also 7 discard. This will create a lot more potential strong opening hands and create early pressure against any deck. Also opening with a Thoughtseize and a Cabal Therapy gives the Cabal Therapy so much more value. Just to rip up an opponents hand by saccing a Deathrite Shaman for Cabal Therapy's flashback makes it even more legit to run the 3/4 Veteran Explorer and Deathrite Shaman split. Now the big question, why not run maindeck Slaughter Games. Well as i said before, this decks weakness is it's early game. I found Slaughter Games more strong when you first start to slowdown your opponent with Red Elemental Blast, Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy. Often in games one Slaughter Games was not fast enough to matter, so i found that going for T1 play in the form of Thoughtseize to be better in game 1.

3 Abrupt Decay, 3 Pernicious Deed, 3 Punishing Fire, 3 Liliana of the Veil: Simply put, Abrupt Decay is the reason to run GBx, Pernicious Deed is the reason to run NicFit and Punishing Fire and Liliana of the Veil are the reasons to run, well, Punishing Fire NicFit. 3 of each is the golden number.

1 Kolaghan's Command: This card is always a 2 for 1. Plus this is one of the few cards that can discard (untargeted) at instant speed. But also every other mode is relevant for Punishing Fire NicFit. While it doesn't hit multiples and lacks some reach, it's instant speed and modes make it that i have replaced it with Maelstrom Pulse. Time will tell if i will be switching back.

Phyrexian Tower and Volrath's Stronghold: Phyrexian Tower may occasionally give you a boost during T2/3 into something scary. I have launched a T2 Slaughter Games this way for the win in some games against ANT. Or how about a T2 Huntmaster of the Fells against my Belcher opponent who dropped 14 Goblins on T1 on the draw. (Also having a Grove and a Punishing Fire here mattered). Also being able to sac a Veteran Explorer to the Phyrexian Tower in order to cast and sac a big Pernicious Deed is something not to be taken lightly. Plus on a more narrow occasion we can sac our creature in response to Swords to Plowshares to prevent it from being exiled. On the other hand we have Volrath's Stronghold. Being able to recast a creatures can mean the difference between winning and losing. Double casting a Veteran Explorer or retrieve a Stormbreath Dragon is mighty. And it so happens that the Two Towers complement each other. The thing i have against Kessig Wolf Run is that it doesn't actually give you control. It only gives a bit more punching power, but i have found that where it matters is often also possible to win a turn later by focusing more on board control. On the other hand, Kessig Wolf Run is basically dead against combo, where both Towers might actually be helpful in one way or the other. Also with the absence of Primeval Titan and Thrun, the Last Troll it is less interesting to run the card.

Lands, fetch and 2 basic mountains: While the rest of the manabase is pretty standard for Punishing Fire NicFit it does run 2 Mountain instead of the one-off. This is very VERY important to effective run 2 Strombreath Dragon. Being able to fetch 2 mountain of a Veteran Explorer means you have very natural way of casting the card while still staying out of reach from Wasteland. In my previous 1 mountain setup i lost simply because i couldn't fetch the 2nd mountain out of a Veteran Explorer. Next to this, the list is overall a bit more "red", due to Red Elemental Blast, Slaughter Games, Blood Moon and Kolaghan's Command aside of the usual red cards.

Sideboard
2 Carpet of Flowers: Normally i would run 3, but while having 4 Deathrite Shaman and 3 Veteran Explorer i will have 4 Deathrite Shaman and 1 Veteran Explorer after boarding. So having 7 to 7 mana sources should be enough. Basically it is always a bad idea to side out all Veteran Explorer's. Sometimes you get this opportunity to Green Sun's Zenith one and ramp into something else, while saccing it to either Cabal Therapy or Phyrexian Tower. While most of the times where you don't want Veteran Explorer there are still situations that the give you more advantage then your opponent.

3 Slaughter Games: Are you kidding? This card shreds so much decks. ANT, OmniShow, Miracles, Sneak, Reanimate, etc. I have always run 2, but thanks to the suggestion of Ralf i have upped it to 3.

1 Thoughtseize: As mentioned earlier. More, more and more...

1 Extirpate: I might consider changing it to Surgical Extraction to have a turn 0 cast, but i feel that Split Second is more important. Simply because of room i will run 1 and not more due to running 3 Slaugher Games. The card is important against opposing Punishing Fire or Loam, while also being another way to interrupt Reanimate, TinFins, Oozing. Often i will also board in Extirpate against control decks. How good it is to extract Lightning Bolts or Swords to Plowshares. Against RUG i do it a lot, disabling them from double or triple bolting in the face actually wins games against them (prevents us from losing).

2 Red Elemental Blast: At first i was like starting to dislike the card, but with this card you just have more ways of protecting yourself against combo, while also have way's to fight against control. I start to believe that these will add maneuverability. And i still love to counter that T1 Ponder or Brainstorm. On occasion it screws so many people.

2 Golgari Charm and 1 Krosan Grip. While Toxic Deluge gave more reach then Golgari Charm being CMC 3, costing life and being sorcery speed just doesn't do it for me. 2 Golgari Charm increases your chances against both Elves! as Death&Taxes. Also it can destroy enchantments like Rest in Peace, Sylvan Library and on occasion Sneak, Omniscience or other random stuff. Also Vendilion Clique, Snapcaster Mage, Young Pyromancer and True-Name Nemesis hate the card. Then the singleton Krosan Grip is there to add to that maneuverability. Split Second disenchant can be important against Sneak or Omniscience. Plus that Batterskull and Umezawa's Jitte do not like this card.

2 Blood Moon and 1 Pithing Needle: At first i ran 1 Pithing Needle and 1 Diabolic Edict against lands.dec, but i found that Diabolic Edict was never useful and that Pithing Needle came in more often against like Jace, Ugin, Forgemaster, Griselbrand, Sneak Attack, Inkmoth Nexus and Wasteland while it was initially there to combat Thespian Stage. Blood Moon is a necessary evil against those fast lands.dec, while also being useful against 12post based decks like Eldrazi and MUD. Those 2 are basically unwinnable and a well timed Blood Moon might actually prevent them from blowing in your face and give time to race you. I will stick to a 2/1 split because Pithing Needle does not kill your own manabase interactions and again, maneuverability.

So, now, while starting to write this post this i initially didn't intend to go this deep. But while writing i thought, sure why not. Hope it helps and any input is welcome.

I recently played an 8-man at my local store with Scapeshift NicFit. I really enjoyed the ability to combo off combined with the usual fair-deck-crushing NicFit shell.
I went 2/1, and remember only losing 1-2 against Miracles and winning 2-0 against Shardless BUG.

The list was derived from the one in the primer with some small updates. I chose this list over several other Scapeshift approaches mainly because of the 2/2 Tribe Elder/Wood Elves split. I like the fact that the deck does not rely too much on the Explorer tech to ramp reasonably.


4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
2 Wood Elves
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
1 Scapeshift
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Indent

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Kessig Wolf Run

SB:
3 Slaughter Games
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Thoughtseize
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
1 Innocent Blood
1 Reverent Silence
1 Tsunami
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pyroclasm
1 ?


First, I wanted to have access to maindeck Abrupt Decay. So I cut 1 Zenith, 2 Scapeshift and added 1 Diabolic Indent and 2 Decays.
Second, I had to adopt the SB a bit - e.g. the Reverent Silence was a metagame choice and Tsunami is quite a good card atm.

Miracles:
I won the first game against Miracles after Slaughter Games on Jace, Pernicious Deed on 4 Angels and a Tsunami destroying 7 lands.
I lost 2nd and 3rd against early unanswered Monastery Mentors (ran into Disenchant when I had to play turn 4 Deed - killing only 3 tokens).
Never saw a Stormbreath Dragon.

Boarding:
+2 REB, +2 Slaughter Games, +2 TS
-3 Veteran Explorer, -1 Huntmaster, -1 Diabolic Indent, -1 Scapeshift

I knew he would board out the Counterbalance since I Decayed one in Game 1. Thus I decided to keep all Wishes and move Scapeshift to the board. Maybe that was wrong, but I would love to hear your comments on that.

Shardless BUG:
The first game was long and grindy. He started with 3 Thoughtseize, stripping me off Zenith, Cabal Therapy, Pernicious Deed. I had to handle an early Shaman to stop him from ramping too fast. But 3 Goyfs followed up to kill me. I was able to block a bit with Tribe Elders and Wood Elves and was down to 4.
Eventually I topdecked a Veteran explorer and flashback Cabal Therapy hit a Force of Will, leaving me with 6 of 7 lands untapped and 1 Burning Wish in hand. -> Win
The second game was faster since I got an early Explorer and he had no basics at all. Thragtusk and Huntmasters struggled with multiple Goyfs.
Later I landed the Titan and the triggers won the game.

Boarding:
-1 Indent, -1 Thragtusk
+2 Thoughtseize

Not sure how to board here. Maybe REB for Jace/FoW.. but there are so few blue cards anyway.