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I'm not seeing it. It's a 3 mana 1 for 1, 4 mana 2 for 1, 5 mana 3 for 1. That's all baseline efficiency and it doesn't even hit the cards you care about. To make it good you need to pump a lot of mana into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
In EDH though, this card seems so far above the curve that it doesn't even look fun.
To the Slaughter is 3 mana removal we regularly play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadadot
What this card brings to the table is an exile based edict.
Exile based discard so there's no graveyard tricks to be played.
An option, it lets you pack in both a proactive and reactive answer in one card.
This card is pushed. The discard option is worth 2 mana as a card, the edict is worth 2 and maybe 3. The choice is worth some amount of mana too. This card is definitely above rate, and we're a deck that can realistically play 3 drops.
The only downside is that it's a sorcery.
Crop Rotation has several uses. It's mana acceleration, a sac outlet, combo interaction, a threat, and removal all in one card.
Bad news. Quarterly has been moved to next week.
Will be playtesting with my buddy tomorrow instead. I'll let you guys know tne results monday.
So no interest in the list above? That's a shame. It's goldfishing beautifully, but I'm missing Stronghold a lot. I will pick one up.
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So i've done something unthinkable and cut deed #3 for an abzan charm to positive results. (4 rhino build) It serves as removal for a bunch of problematic cards and sometimes throwing two counters on a sigarda changes the clock, or lets rhinos fight through anglers. Worst case you get to cycle for two cards and that sometimes helps consistency depending on where you are in a match.
I tend to value modal cards high because I like having a bunch of differeny avenues. I've used it to deal with a flipped delver which helped me stabilize. At least having the option is nice.
Edit: i saw a few pages back i read about woodland bellower tech for rhinos. I've tried it and wasn't too impressed, but my 3 drop slot has been getting a little clogged up lately and i'm kind of down to have a nice way of looping it back for some late game values.
I'm also considering cutting decays for collective brutality.
My local meta is becoming somewhat overrun with grindy, midrangy decks, and I figured Nic Fit would be a good choice to go over the top. Specifically, 4C Loam, which has been my deck of choice for well over a year, has become very common, with Jund and Maverick sometimes tagging in. There's a pretty wide selection of interactive blue decks bein played; Delver variants (mostly Grixis and Sultai these days) are the most common, but we have a couple of Miracles diehards around (not many but they show up consistently), as well as a fair number of midrangier Deathblade and Sultai variants. The most popular combo decks are easily Reanimator and Sneak and Show with Elves a distant third; everything else is sporadic at best. Lands and Death and Taxes do show up consistently but not in great numbers, and that's pretty much what we've been seeing around here lately.
Given this metagame, are there any good angles to attack? I figure I can pretty much ignore combo as long as I make room for a set of Leylines in the side and some GSZ targets in the main; the only question is whether I should try to beat S&S or simply write it off as a lost cause. Lands is my other main worry; while it hasn't been very popular lately it could easily surge back, as I know a few players who have it built and could easily dust it off if they decide the time is ripe. The same goes for Elves, only less so, and I'm prepared to take that loss if it comes up.
So, can you guys advise me on any directions to take the deck in that would be noticeably better or worse than others, given this meta?
Crop Rotation does a lot for your combo machups, you don't have to write them off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moroklumpen
SE Rhino is probably good. Speaking of which, I need to give Echelon this guild, just so he has even more to ponder:
Land 24
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savanah
1 Scrubland
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas
Creature 17
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
1 Eternal Witness
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Siege Rhino
Spells 20
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Crop Rotation
4 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Vindicate
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
Rhinos the way they were meant to be played.
Well, if you're on Junk Fit I can recommend my own SB. It's perfectly capable of manhandling either of those MUs G2 & 3 (as long as they don't have the stone cold nuts T1/T2). As for lists, I'll come to that further down this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moroklumpen
You're a monster. A great and wonderful monster, but a monster nonetheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
Now for the important bit. I've done a nice daysworth of playtesting yesterday w/ Mirri's Guile and the short of it is that I honestly think it's better than SDT.
Seriously, you wouldn't believe the shit it let me get away with. It, together w/ enough fetchlands (and later in the game GSZ), is such a powerful engine that it lets you power through everything Grixis Delver can throw at you. Drop it T1, and by T3 you'll have looked at 6 cards (and have picked out the best 2) @0 cost after sinking your first mana into Guile. It allows you to compete w/ them on card selection level, allowing you to answer whatever they throw at you or even aggressively present a threat they must answer in order to stay in the game (which, by the way, can be as simple as dropping a DRS. Seriously). In only a days worth of testing I've had several games vs. both D&T & Grixis Delver where only drawing into a specific sequence of 2/3 cards could have saved me from certain death and I pulled it off thanks to Guile. Heck, at some point a well timed fetch even got me the Cabal Therapy I needed (it was the 3rd card from the top) to strip away a Batterskull my opponent just SFM'd up. It was epic. There were also multiple times where manipulating the top of my library allowed me to shuffle away chunks of land at least a turn earlier than I would've been able to otherwise. From what I experienced yesterday, Grixis Delver is back as a positive MU for my list and D&T was just a cakewalk - they couldn't handle the pressure my list put on them, it was insane.
Now for some card specific things:
- Vindicate over Deed #3: Felt fine. Not great, but just fine. Might want Toxic Deluge there instead of Vindicate, not sure yet. Might be meta dependant.
- Courser of Kruphix: Overperformed greatly. The simple act of clearing away land from the top of my library allowed me to select things I wanted to play w/ Guile whilst expanding my manabase. Very powerful. I'll likely almost never GSZ for it (unless I need a creature and GSZ for X = 3 is all I can muster) though, but always love having it. Clearing away a land (just in itself) might not seem that special, but do remember that clearing away that land means that you're effectively 1 turn ahead in draws (and therefor 1 turn closer to drawing what you do need).
- Vizier of the Menagerie: Didn't see it all day, or just once but I had lethal the next turn so it didn't matter all that much. At some point I did have the 2 Towers out, so it would have been beyond awesome. If it starts disappointing, I could see this turning into Courser #2.
- Volrath's Stronghold: Never leaving home without it anymore. All it did yesterday was put back a Sigarda but in all honesty, what more could you want?
- Tireless Tracker: Did not have its day yesterday. Had it out once, never got to cracking clues (even though I had 4 at some point) - I had too many other things to do. Will keep it in for now.
And to share the most awesome turn I had yesterday - it was late in the game, I just managed to stabilize (vs. Grixis Delver) and went Cabal Therapy -> Strip away the TNN I knew about, PtE on Sultai Scavenger, Eternal Witness, PtE on flipped Delver of Secrets.
@Arianrhod: If you want to fix Sneak Fit's consistency issues, just run 10 fetchlands and a bunch of Guiles. Problem solved. Seriously, I shit you not.
Hey, bros. Just made the switch to BUG Nic Fit with THIS list and am really liking the improved combo match-ups. I was wondering if anyone could help me with sideboarding, as it is quite a bit different than Junk. For example, I was practicing against Eldrazi today and really didn't know what to do. The guy had Jitte, so Leovold was nice because it made him think twice about pinging my Strixes. Endbringer was also affected because he couldn't draw cards with it, but otherwise Leovold seemed pretty blah. So maybe take one out? I also thought Clique wasn't the greatest because even if I can snipe a Reality Smasher or something like that, they can easily just draw another one due to the redundancy of the deck. I replaced Clique with Tracker because I don't have too many big guys; does that make sense? Maelstrom Pulse also seems good, but I'm not sure what to take out. Should Deluge come in? Seems great because it can wipe the board, but the life loss is a concern due to their constant pressure. I also assume what comes in and out changes depending on play vs. draw.
I'm also curious as to what I do for Delver in general (or Grixis in particular since it's so popular). I would think Nissa comes out because she's so likely to get Pierced or Dazed, and Fatal Push could replace her. Dismember and Pulse also seem pretty good for Grixis's Gurmags, but again I don't know what to take out. Jace is also pretty expensive, but he's also really strong...
For Death and Taxes I think I want Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge, Fatal Push, Maelstrom Pulse, and Painful Truths. Maybe both FoWs and all 3 planeswalkers come out? *Any* advice would be greatly appreciated.
New Nyx Fit toy just spoiled:
http://media.wizards.com/2017/hou/en_sesUcKUkTI.png
One-sided Humility with a (pretty minor) bonus.
I haven't played with it much, but I actually agree with you just from my experiences with SDT. As I've mentioned a couple times even before the ban I had been moving away from SDT because I found it to be too slow. It was adding a good 5 turns to each of my games on average because to use it early would significantly slow down your starting velocity and it was just too much of a mana sink. I'm looking for optional mana sinks, not something that I need to commit to every turn. Guile is just one mana, and is therefore acceptable as a card quality tool. But I'm still hesitant to add many. I may order a couple and try out 1 or maybe 2, assuming I can figure out some cuts. I've really been liking my 4 Tracker setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
@Brael. Just proxy 3 and try a few games. They should be sick w/ your Confidants.
You can thank me later :laugh:.
Actually, come to think of it, I think I bought a playset a year ago in anticipation of a SDT ban at some point. After work I'll dig through my cards and see if I have them, assuming they're there I'll have to thank past me for the foresight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I'm pretty sure I don't want 3. They don't stack well in multiples, but 1-2 would probably be ok, they interact well with Courser, Tracker, Bob, Fetchlands, etc. The first cut is easy, it would be Tracker #4, a second cut is harder.
The problem with testing though is that I have very few opportunities to play Legacy right now. In the town I'm residing in for the summer there's no Legacy scene, barely anyone at FNM's even has a Legacy deck, and those that do are more of the heavily proxied turn 1 kill/fold to FoW variety like Spanish Inquisition, Oops All Spells, and Belcher.
@Echelon / On MGuile
It's good; but each had their bonuses:
* Guile -> Fixes your T2, can make 1-landers keepable, costs no mana (though it's risky as if there's not a land in your top 4, you probably just lost.) Plays well with Bob.
* Library -> potential to cantrip or become CA. Pro/Con is that it's drawing, so it can interact with things (usually a con)
* Top -> Multiples of itself are easy to get rid of, it's hard to kill
Cons:
* Guile -> Abhorrent in multiples. Always CDA (unless someone targets it with an otherwise dead Decay)
* Library -> Bad in multiples, isn't good with Bob (since you have to plan a full turn ahead and can't shuffle)
* SDT -> Eats your mana
Academy Rector makes that ridiculous. T2 Rector, T3 "All your stuff sucks forever" + Siege Rhino lmao. My god.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowpass
On Guile in multiples: first off, you can keep yourself from drawing multiples, so there's that. And having multiples means it's ok to blow one up w/ Deed. Anyways, just try them out for yourselves. I'm sure I'll hear it when you've given it a fair go :laugh:.
As for that new enchantment - it fucks over entire manabases AND legions of creatures. It's insane.
Ah, yeah, I guess the upside isn't so minor. I was trying to think of notable non-mana activated abilities that weren't on creatures or planeswalkers, but somehow completely glossed over lands.
Could curse of misfortunes be viable with the addition of overwhelming splendor? curse of misfortunes => overwhelming splendor => curse of death's hold or curse of misfortunes => curse of death's hold => overwhelming splendor could be a powerful play. this increases the consistency of tutoring enchantments and could cut the need for evolutionary leap. Note that cruel reality is also a curse. It also bypasses graveyard hate which is a pretty big problem with nyx fit.
Why shoot for overkill? Overwhelming splendor basically reads "win the game".Quote:
Originally Posted by zyren
This all the time. How awesome that we can class Explorer with Strix and Stoneforge? But really that's it's power. It's so good it makes me greedy for value creatures. I want Dark Confidant to be on this list but it's a different kind of creature. Bob can be very powerfull but is a more difficult card to play. Has anyone tried Borderland Explorer? I've been enjoying it in a NicFit reanimator list recently, and the opponent never uses it. Also it has Explorer in the name!Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Summoner's Pact
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Entomb
1 Unburial Rites
4 Animate Dead
4 Dance of the Dead
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Savannah
4 Bayou
3 Swamp
1 Borderland Explorer
3 Griselbrand
1 Fierce Empath
1 Primeval Titan
1 Pelakka Wurm
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Massacre Wurm
This feels really good. It looks awkward on paper but then you just draw entomb and dance of the dead with plenty of lands into a bunch of green sun's zeniths into PrimeTime into fatties. Wish I had room for removal but the plan is to go over the top instead. Cabal therapy/Entomb/Gitaxian probe with lots of Cabal Therapy flashback is a pretty good disruption suite. Commune with the Gods is good, although it feels weird. Sometimes it just whiffs. Then you think, 'Oh, I need more fatties and enchantments for that to work, then again I'm glad I didn't stall on all that crap- that was ok.' Then next time you pitch Griselbrand and find Animate Dead and think, 'It's Christmas every day.'
Also I agree that Mirri's Guile is good. I especially like it with other draw effects. Also I don't mind multiples or alongside Sylvan Library, especially with instant speed draw/shuffle effects- like Summoner's Pact and Gitaxian probe. And I think we can look to spells like Commune with the Gods, Gather the Pack,and Grizzly Salvage.
Torment of Hailfire is a cool card design, but I think it's difficult to pressure all three resources strongly enough to force a -bad- choice.
Overwhelming splendor looks... really good.
Yes, Overwhelming splendor does pretty much read that, and my goal would be to get it out as fast and consistently as possible. Right now the deck has consistency issues and the new curse + rector + leap should hopefully increase consistency and be a viable alternative to getting around graveyard hate, which has become more prominent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael