[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

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Originally Posted by rooneg

Yes, it's played as a sideboard card in MUD.

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and you need three copies for that board

Looks like there is a chance of seeing these as new Judge promos:
http://i.imgur.com/8o0Pz05.jpg

• Vindicate
• Show and Tell
• Vengevine
• Overwhelming Forces

I'm skeptical because Vindicate was already a Judge promo, but we'll see soon enough.

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Originally Posted by mini1337s

Looks like there is a chance of seeing these as new Judge promos:
http://i.imgur.com/8o0Pz05.jpg

• Vindicate
• Show and Tell
• Vengevine
• Overwhelming Forces

I'm skeptical because Vindicate was already a Judge promo, but we'll see soon enough.

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Where did this picture come from?

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Originally Posted by kusumoto

Where did this picture come from?

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Apparently from a prerelease. It was in with the Maze's End promos, or whatever they were giving out.

But Vindicate already *is* a Judge promo. Why would they make another one?

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Originally Posted by atropos

But Vindicate already *is* a Judge promo. Why would they make another one?

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Because they can? Who knows.

I'm more suprised by Vengevine. Where does it see play after the banned Survival?

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Originally Posted by Barook

Because they can? Who knows.

I'm more suprised by Vengevine. Where does it see play after the banned Survival?

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It sees the scorn of Legacy players bitter about Survival getting banned.

Isnt the vengevine the worlds 2013 promo or something? I've seen it before.

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Originally Posted by atropos

But Vindicate already *is* a Judge promo. Why would they make another one?

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Exactly, also it hardly sees any play.

Better photos from the same source:
http://i.imgur.com/9de938B.jpg
http://imgur.com/a/R0aa5

I seriously begin to hate judge foils. Why have a collection of stuff if everything is bound to be reprinted at some point anyway

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Originally Posted by bruizar

I seriously begin to hate judge foils. Why have a collection of stuff if everything is bound to be reprinted at some point anyway

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To play with?

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Originally Posted by bruizar

I seriously begin to hate judge foils. Why have a collection of stuff if everything is bound to be reprinted at some point anyway

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It's a game first and foremost. Go collect VS System cards if you want something that won't be reprinted.

There is a big monetary component to magic cards. If stuff will just end up being reprinted, what's the use of spending a lot of money acquiring the cards? If there's no use in acquiring the cards, why not just sell off the collection and just stop with the game. Makes no sense to tie up that amount of money then.

I know this will invoke some people to say dumb things like "go quit then", but that doesn't contribute to anything. The thought process that I outlined above is something that I know many people have and it is counterproductive to the game and the format. It is in everybody's interest for that not to happen. If I would sell my collection it could only go to a store because regular people don't have the buying power to purchase it, which means the store is going to be selling it with a mark up to make a profit, further increasing the cost of eternal magic while losing the core of its player base. Most magic pimps like me didn't become pimps over night, but are long time dedicated players to the game (1994). Losing those is losing the biggest advocates of the game.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

There is a big monetary component to magic cards. If stuff will just end up being reprinted, what's the use of spending a lot of money acquiring the cards?

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To play the game?



Regarding pimp, these days most people just slam some money into the internet and their all-foil deck shows up in the mail. It used to be different when the community was smaller and more people were in school/university but at least in my area, lots of people make real money now, so going all-foil/foreign isn't really something special anymore. So what people are now doing is having their decks altered in a very specific and coherent way. It looks ok but I don't really like it either.

I don't see people dropping 40k to 60k USD over the mail in the timespan of a month, regardless of their job.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

I seriously begin to hate judge foils. Why have a collection of stuff if everything is bound to be reprinted at some point anyway

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WotC neither has an obligation to reprint every card, nor an obligation to never reprint cards (excepting those on the Reserved List).

I really feel bad for them. Magic players will always bitch no matter what they decide to do.

Why would they? :eek:

Playing the game is what it's all about in the end. No matter whether you're using white bordered 8th Edition Mountains or Arabian Nights ones.

It's not just a game. If that was the case then why would people play magic over poker? Poker has equal odds (1 deck with shared cards), it costs maybe 2 bucks to purchase the cards and tournaments pay out astronomic amounts in prize support.

Well, maybe because it just is not just a game. If you ignore the collectibility of magic, you are in a sense, ignoring what magic is.

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

WotC neither has an obligation to reprint every card, nor an obligation to never reprint cards (excepting those on the Reserved List).

I really feel bad for them. Magic players will always bitch no matter what they decide to do.

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It's just a cheap way to pay judges for their volunteer work. If they would just cough up money for judges for once in their life, there wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that they are nickle and diming judges to death forcing them to trade/sell their judge foils to recoup their time/money investment into judging events. As long as there will be tournaments; staples will be getting the judge foil treatment thus increasing supply of cards that owe their value to being powerful and out of print.

PS: They have no obligation to not reprint reserved list cards either. They can just do it, because nothing in the law states they can't. And even IF it would be written in law, they could still do it, except they would break the law and they would settle. If they really want to reprint things they can and will. Kind of the same principle of how companies use patents that they do not own, and settle after they made a fortune and grabbed a leadership position in their market. You can sue, but the damage will be done.

What would you do if you had 4x Foil Jace and 4x Foil Tarmogoyf? It's damn desirable as a pimp to play with those cards, but they are too risky to hold because wizards WILL reprint them. Maybe not now, but they will do it. They did it to Goblin Welder (which used to be a very pimp foil) and even imperial recruiter and loyal retainers. It will only take time before Imperial Seal will get axed like this too. Why hold on to these expensive cards if you are exposing yourself, not to risk, but to inevitable decline.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

It's just a cheap way to pay judges for their volunteer work. If they would just cough up money for judges for once in their life, there wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that they are nickle and diming judges to death forcing them to trade/sell their judge foils to recoup their time/money investment into judging events.

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Paying judges in cash would make them employees/contractors in many jurisdictions, resulting in legal hell for WotC.

then pay in booster boxes which they can sell at drafts

little manila envelopes of cards are easier and more cost effective to transport than extra crates of booster boxes to hand out to staffers.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

What would you do if you had 4x Foil Jace and 4x Foil Tarmogoyf? It's damn desirable as a pimp to play with those cards, but they are too risky to hold because wizards WILL reprint them. Maybe not now, but they will do it. They did it to Goblin Welder (which used to be a very pimp foil) and even imperial recruiter and loyal retainers. It will only take time before Imperial Seal will get axed like this too.

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If I bought 4 foil jaces and 4 foil Goyfs which are the exact same functionality of non-foils but 2-3x the price, money obviously wouldn't be an issue for me. I just bought a playset of FoW but I would be overjoyed if they reprinted them and made them a .50c card so everyone (including myself) could buy as many of them as they wanted.

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Why hold on to these expensive cards if you are exposing yourself, not to risk, but to inevitable decline.

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To play the game with them? If your not playing with them sell them so the price can go down slightly and the rest of us can use them.

If the playing the actual game matters less to you than your money you have invested your time/money in the wrong thing. Sell out of magic and buy baseball cards. Or stocks. Or property.


Also this is a pointless argument, besides the absurdly rare/costly P3K stuff, judge foils have barely effected the prices of any of the cards they are reprinting.


@Vengevine: There's a really inefficient modern "dredge" deck that plays 4 of him. Its weird reprinting him and vindicate though...

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Originally Posted by bruizar

What would you do if you had 4x Foil Jace and 4x Foil Tarmogoyf? It's damn desirable as a pimp to play with those cards, but they are too risky to hold because wizards WILL reprint them. Maybe not now, but they will do it. They did it to Goblin Welder (which used to be a very pimp foil) and even imperial recruiter and loyal retainers. It will only take time before Imperial Seal will get axed like this too. Why hold on to these expensive cards if you are exposing yourself, not to risk, but to inevitable decline.

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If you think Judge foils and reprints will ever catch up to original pack-foils, you are crazy. JTMS, Goyf, etc, reprinting those foils WILL NOT lower the value of the original packfoil. Playability will lower the value of a foil (as in Welder's case, though at $50, it's criminally under-priced).
People will pay a premium for Lorwyn planeswalkers for gods sake!

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Originally Posted by thefringthing

It's a game first and foremost. Go collect VS System cards if you want something that won't be reprinted.

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Don't be so sure ...

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Upper...47393155320725

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Originally Posted by bruizar

It's just a cheap way to pay judges for their volunteer work. If they would just cough up money for judges for once in their life, there wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that they are nickle and diming judges to death forcing them to trade/sell their judge foils to recoup their time/money investment into judging events. As long as there will be tournaments; staples will be getting the judge foil treatment thus increasing supply of cards that owe their value to being powerful and out of print.

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I don't see this as a problem at all, and I doubt the majority of players and judges think so either.

Well, let me restate. There is a problem. The problem is that these cards are foil and usually modern-bordered, which is really ugly. But that's it.

Has anybody been keeping track of Jace the Mind Sculptor Foil prices recently? According to the magic traders guide on ebay tracking it's at $386 a piece. However, Starcitygames has them for $800 in nm condition and has zero in stock; meanwhile, Channelfireball has them going for $1000 and is willing to give you $650 for a nm one out the door.

http://classic.magictraders.com/pric...nt-magic-foils
http://store.channelfireball.com/cat...or__foil/80805
http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardd...product=171772

The price history has it jumping from $200 from February 2012 up to $1000 today...
http://ark42.com/mtg/pricehistory.ph...d+Sculptor&f=1
What is going on here?

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Originally Posted by luckme10

Has anybody been keeping track of Jace the Mind Sculptor Foil prices recently? According to the magic traders guide on ebay tracking it's at $386 a piece. However, Starcitygames has them for $800 in nm condition and has zero in stock; meanwhile, Channelfireball has them going for $1000 and is willing to give you $650 for a nm one out the door.

http://classic.magictraders.com/pric...nt-magic-foils
http://store.channelfireball.com/cat...or__foil/80805
http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardd...product=171772

The price history has it jumping from $200 from February 2012 up to $1000 today...
http://ark42.com/mtg/pricehistory.ph...d+Sculptor&f=1
What is going on here?

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It's an extremely desirable and playable card being bought up by panicking circlejerkers.

Well, the value of Jace in stores is not the same as value between regular players. I have been trying to get rid of a jace at $800 with noone interested, thus I assume it is worth less. Noone in their right mind would pay $1000 to CHF for a jace.

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Originally Posted by useL

Well, the value of Jace in stores is not the same as value between regular players. I have been trying to get rid of a jace at $800 with noone interested, thus I assume it is worth less. Noone in their right mind would pay $1000 to CHF for a jace.

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Never. Foil Jaces = set of ex unlim. Power atm which is outright hilarious. I'm glad I sold my Foils.

Jace reprint maybe?

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Never. Foil Jaces = set of ex unlim. Power atm which is outright hilarious. I'm glad I sold my Foils.

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Same here. I made a pretty penny on my german foil Jace. I'll never think twice about keeping it.

Foiling out my cube keeps getting harder and harder...

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Originally Posted by r3dd09

Same here. I made a pretty penny on my german foil Jace. I'll never think twice about keeping it.

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Sold 3 german, 4 english ... Making a whooping 600% gain is nothing to laugh at. I can still play Delver if i'm in the mood for blue

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Sold 3 german, 4 english ... Making a whooping 600% gain is nothing to laugh at. I can still play Delver if i'm in the mood for blue

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Sold our foil Jace for over 400$ this fall.
Made a 100$++ profit on it.
Not regreting it (we still have 6 in the binder)

Kayradis makes it sound as if he was selling his family's card or something, lol.

"We sold our Honda last fall, got a decent price for it. We...we don't regret it. We don't.... *sigh*."

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Kayradis makes it sound as if he was selling his family's card or something, lol.

"We sold our Honda last fall, got a decent price for it. We...we don't regret it. We don't.... *sigh*."

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After a second read I agree!
The "We" refers to me and my cardpool parter. We joined our resources after 2 years of borrowing cards to each other non stop. It seemed to be the logical option. Split the cost of staples we missed and increased the overall value of our collection.

Now, should I acquire a Honda? Just bought a Golf yesterday

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Originally Posted by Kayradis

Now, should I acquire a Honda? Just bought a Golf yesterday

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Be careful that Volkswagen doesn't perform too well getting you to Modern tournaments, otherwise DCI might target the Golf with a ban.