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Totally agreed. Firebolt would be better overall, but we need to answer Mentor. The fact that it's played in a deck of counterspells makes sure we can't combo before it comes down, and if it sticks it's game in 1-2 turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
Curse that non-blue bastard.
Bolt and Slice and Dice do the trick. It's honestly no worry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morcrux
Also, I thought I'd share: I just cycled Slice and Dice against two Wingmare and Thalia. Good times.
I played sudden shock in the board for a long time and always really liked it. I've now been playing magma jet in the main just because it typically does the same job and provides the added benefit of digging through your deck faster for the cards you need. However, if Mentor really sees a ton of play, A couple copies of sudden shock may find their way back into my 75 as well.
There are certainly MUs where slice & dice shines (eg D&T, elves and pyromancer decks) but I just get a little concerned against delver decks, which are going to become very popular again.
Firebolt, on the other hand, just seems way too narrow.
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Haven't had any problems yet as I've been playing Plague in the board, but are dropping black so..Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Keller
I want to find a spot for Slice and Dice tho, is it recommended to run it above Pyrokinesis in the board? (Note that I'm on shortcake and not MonoR)
I run two Bridge and one Slice and Dice main. In the board, I run two and two (Pyrokinesis and Slice and Dice), with an additional Bridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morcrux
So I'm seeing a lot of show and tell variants online lately, such as the Eureka build or u/r with sneak, emrakul, grisel, omni, and cunning wish. These are proving to be difficult MUs. Our combo is dead game one. I feel like we need something earth shattering to put in with show and tell. Bridges are very good but they are only so-so against a griselbrand or omniscience. I guess it's more about countering the show and tell maybe. But then they just play sneak or Eureka. It's definitely worth having 8 blasts somewhere in the 75. Would running the RiP/Helm combo be worth it? Anyone else have any good ideas?
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As long as they're just cheating creatures into play, Containment Priest ruins that match up (I've moved 2 back into my sideboard since Sneak and Show is now the more prominent Show and Tell deck over Omni). Sneak and Show hardly run any bounce or removal game one, so if you have Jaya and Bridge in play, G1 becomes a lock in for you. Wipe away is really the only card post board that could stop our defenses.
Eight Blasts take care of Show and Tell. Eureka costs double-green against a Blood Moon deck. The only thing that gets us is the Emrakul that stops us from being able to combo win. The Eureka version is just a worse version, even if it did do well recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moomba
I've actually still been running assemble main, it offers a very fast clock. You could run a Singleton kiki and village bell ringer. It's probably awful but looking at different options. (I probably shouldn't make posts this late for this reason).
http://www.mtgo-stats.com/decks/23204
who has been playing this variant? I am interested to hear how the black splash has been going. Also does anyone else stream some painter ? If so whats your twitch channel
2 Goblin Welder
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Painter's Servant
1 Spellskite
3 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Spells
4 Lotus Petal
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Magma Jet
4 Blood Moon
1 Ensnaring Bridge
Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
3 City of Traitors
1 Great Furnace
1 Marsh Flats
3 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Plateau
Sideboard
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Containment Priest
1 Rest in Peace
1 Engineered Plague
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
2 Slaughter Games
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ensnaring Bridge
That was my list before the DTT ban. Not sure the black is necessary any more as it was mostly for slaughter games against Omnitell. Variants are still getting played but they have much more variant win cons (Eureka, sneak attack, etc) that slaughter games isn't that good any more. E.plague was good and the one kolaghans command I was playing in the main was sometimes nice but probably not worth the splash. Blood moon and ensnaring bridge have since gone up in value. Don't think I will be playing black for a little while.
I was streaming but it's not very often. My channel is rude.eternal.
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As for blasts taking care of show and tell, only as well as they did against Omnitell, which is to say not that good. Between opposing counterspells and Boseju, we can't count on blasts. Containment priest is decent but if they drop Omniscence then we are still screwed. I do think we have to do everything we can to counter show and tell. It might be worthwhile to keep some blood moons in to hit Boseju as well.
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I Just suffered a disappointing loss to burn and jund in a local GPT for Seattle. I cut sphere of law from my side just before the event because my scouting indicated no burn - I was wrong.
Jund. Man, kolagans command is a he'll of a card. He killed my welder and bridge in one go. The match up felt brutal, mind you I have always hated jund, all their cards are so live against you. And yes he beat my turn two moon because he had the mental fortitude to get a basic swamp on turn one.
I beat without much difficulty :
Sneak and show
Bug delver
Landstill
I ran a general rw build with one miser lightning bolt in main and extra artifact removal in the side for the local meta.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
Still running magma jets then?
Whats your list like now? I hope you decide to stream more often.
I don't anticipate Omni-Tell being a presence in the meta for much longer. I beat it twice at Legacy Champs with the full suite of eight Blasts - it's really not that hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
But you really can. You can Blast their Boseiju or Moon it out like you said; the card isn't doing anything. You run eight hard counters for one mana - you're not losing that battle if you set it up properly. Mono red variants have an easier time against this.Quote:
Between opposing counterspells and Boseju, we can't count on blasts.
I run a set of Trinisphere in the board, and as I stated with eight Blasts plus those you just hammer that deck hard. Untap and Blast Omniscience while Trinisphere shuts them down.Quote:
Containment priest is decent but if they drop Omniscence then we are still screwed.
Against Jund and BUG with Hymn and Liliana, has anyone considered Metrognome? I think we brought that up a while back. They drop Deathrite turn one and Liliana turn two - you drop four 1/1s into play and swing at it. Guerrilla Tactics is a thought, too.
I punted in the semis of 7 rd legacy event today trying to win a mox emerald. I'll post a few more details when I'm more awake.
Played a Legacy tournament yesterday. 37 people and a combo-infested meta. If I counted correctly, there were 6 ANT, 2 TES, 2 Painter, 2 Enchantress, 1 Reanimator, 1 Infect, 1 Lands and 2 Elves present.
R1 against ANT. 0-2
I lose the die-roll and mull to 6 (no lands) only to die T1. G2 mull to 6 in search of some hate. I find a hand with 2 Blasts, SSG, Plateau, Fetch and Recruiter. I counter his ponders T1 & T2, only to die T3.
R2 against Lands. 1-2
I win the die-roll and drop Moon T2. He scoops as soon as the moon hits the BF. G2 I mull to 5 (3 Tombs, 1 City, 1 welder, 1 crypt, 1 SSG in the first hand, the second hand had no lands) and keep a Tomb, Bridge, Mountain, Painter and Fetch. He has a T3 Marit into Grip for bridge and we're on to G3. G3 again mull to 6 (no lands). I drop T1 Bridge, draw T3 a Moon and drop that too. Next turns I only see land after land. He dropped a Sylvan Library T2 and it's the cardadvantage from library that gives him the game. He finds Decay and Grip to get rid of both Bridge and Moon and kills me with Marit.
R3 against Merfolk 2-0
I lose the die-roll and mull again to 5 (no lands, 5 lands). I drop T1 Grindstone, T2 Painter with Blast back-up into T3 win. G2 mull to 6 (no lands) and T2 Painter, T3 Bridge, T4 Moon, T5 Stone and GG.
R4 against ANT 2-0
I win the die-roll and T1 Moon is game. G2 mull to 5 (no hate both times) I drop a T2 Trini and he can't combo off.
R5 against TES 2-0
I win the die-roll and mull to 6 (no lands). I drop a T1 Moon and assemble the combo. G2 I mull to 5 (no hate both times) and keep a hand with Moon, trini, City, Tomb, Plateau. He opens with Swamp into Duress and takes the Trini. I draw REB and drop plateau. T2 he casts Cabal Therapy and takes Moon. I draw Thorn and drop City and Thorn. T3 he does a small combo turn and lands 8 goblins. I draw a SSG and drop that. He attacks me down to 13. I draw another SSG and drop that too. He attacks me down to 8. I then draw Explosives like a pro and drop it and blow it. Now it's my turn to attack him. I get him to 4 life before he can cast a Massacre through the Thorn. I only drew lands. I then draw a Magus and can again start the assault. He doesn't find an answer and dies.
R6 against Abzan Company 0-2
I lose the die-roll and mull to 5 (no lands and the next hand a full set of Tombs and a Blast). I keep Painter, Moon, Mountain, Fetch, Welder. Game 1 I'm hopelessly behind after T1 Vial into SFM into Jitte and Confidant. I can't get rid of the Jitte and he wipes my board with it. G2 I mull again to 6 (no lands) and keep: Slice, Recruiter, Tomb, Plateau, Magus and Pyroclasm. I drop T1 Tomb. He goes T1 Savanah, Vial. T2 I drop Plateau and recruiter and search for Painter. He ticks his vial up to 1 and drops another one and wastes my plateau. I don't see another colored land and die soon to SFM, Confidant, Jitte and Thalia.
So, 3-3 in the end and very unhappy with the number of times I had to mulligan and the poor draws I had. But yeah, that's Magic I guess...
I streamed Painter a few times on my channel but I am not a fan of playing against miracles 2-3 times per daily and unfortunately miracles is very popular online at the moment.
What's your twitch channel?Quote:
Originally Posted by lilevo
it's http://www.twitch.tv/romariovidal
but I am probably going to be playing Pox for the next week.
Sleaving this back up after playing a lot of variant painter deck (UW) and some grixis tezzerater.
Blood moon is looking powerful in this meta again as is bridge and containment priest.
I'm also starting with 2 revoker main with miracles and sneak attack being so popular.
So post ban: what are most people feeling comfortable with as far as utility box creatures, land count, and mana accelerant (SSG/Lotus Petal...) numbers?
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Blood moon is a lot better again. I switched back to the mono red version ( I feel more comfortable playing that than Rw) but I might switch back. I completely cut goblin welder out of my mono red. I felt that whenever I would want to tutor for him it would have been better to just tutor for another painter. I was finding that my main positive to welder was that he would usually eat up an opponents stp. He'll probably make his way back in, but I constantly found myself siding him out.
9 mountain
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
3 red fetches
4 painters servant
4 imperial recruiter
4 simian spirit guide
2 magus of the moon
1 phyrexian revoker
1 Jaya Ballard
4 blood moon
4 grindstone
4 pyroblast
3 senseis divining top
3 sudden shock
2 ensnaring bridge
2 red elemental blast
2 koth of the hammer
SB:
2 thorn of amethyst
2 tormods crypt
2 ratchet bomb
2 pyrokinesis
2 ensnaring bridge
1 phyrexian revoker
1 red elemental blast
1 slice and dice
1 Manic vandal
1 viashino heretic
The two koth mains helps a lot against miracles, sneak and show, and Even jund on game 1. It feels great when your opponent goes turn 2 Liliana of the veil and then you play koth the next turn and their Lilian's ends up dying.
I have been jamming a TON of games online with a new version of the deck I'm running, and I've found a very redundant and consistent configuration.
I'll get it to you soon!
list and stream it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Keller
Somebody suggested to me with all the bolts, swords, and abrupt decays running around right now it might be worth having spellskite main deck. I think he might be right but I've never actually tried the card in the deck. Is it a good idea. Is it not better to just jam the 4th welder. I know they're different.
Trying to get ready for eternal extravaganza 3. Anyone else going to be there?
I'll be there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapson
Abrupt decay is really the only offender in my opinion. It answers Painter AND Grindstone and can't be blasted. Swords and bolts can be blasted. So welder does answer abrupt decay quite well, and a 6+ blast list should take care of the other two. I don't think spellskite is necessary, and doesn't progress the game at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapson
However, spellskite is a one card combo where you have to have enough of a developed board to blast bolts and swords. Decay is a beating for this deck so, deductively, it seems he's asking if decay is enough of an offender to warrant a do- nothing card in the MD to protect the combo. Id be more inclined to run revoker for moxen and petals that easily cast decay, and let blood moon take care of the panda that produce GB. And if ones meta is all about the basics and abrupt decays, then why isn't painter crushing that?
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Lands not panda, iPhones...
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Actually, spellskite is a really good card. It protects your combo. It is also very good in the burn MU and is a house in the infect MU, as you can redirect all their pump spells to spellskite. I would definitely play it over a 4th welder. Also though, Canonist can also do a very good job of protecting the combo if you sequence it right.
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I have tested spellskite ~one year in the main and never found it useless. He blocks pretty nice, against infect he's almost a free win, he's quite ok in the burn mu and of course against decay you want him. Although you need to sequence things right and you need the time to do that (against delver time is rare -.-). I've won a lot of matches because of spellskite on board (no need for mana here, just life =) ) and a blast in hand. I think one of the best things about spellskite is that he protects the two lockpieces moon and bridge as well. At the moment I try to find room for a second one in the board...
Over the past 3 years I have typically played with at least one spellskite in the main, occasionally two.
My meta is a bit heavier in none blue decks which means things like abrupt decay are more prevalent.
Pretty much every deck out there does not like to see a spellskite in play, especially game two, after most decks become a bit more hateful to us.
With the addition of goblin welder, spellskite becomes truly abusive and let's you pull ahead on stalled games.
Against specific matchups, this card is suprisingly good against burn, often netting you 6-8 life over the course of a game. Against BUG decks spellskite cuts off their "float BG" tactic, which is often the only play they have against your bloodmoons due to our red blast redundancy.
TLDR: spellskite is a card. I would play 1 over a second magus, jaya, or revoker any day of the week.
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Ok gonna give spellskite a slot in the MB. Splitting 1 revoker and 1 spellskite. I see a lot of positive results from others experience, so I'll bite and try it out.
Also, after several months away from the Rw painter deck I got back to it at our local weekly. Wow I forgot how much fun this deck is!!
Went 3-1 only losing to a hyper aggressive Affinity deck piloted by my good friend. Fast clock plus chalice just kept me down.
All stars were the norm. Played 2 revoker and was never thrilled to see him nor did I want to fetch for him.
3 welders was great. Card is just always a threat to our opponents.
0-2 vs Affinity
2-1 Grixis Delver w/ Pyromancer: In one game, against grixis delver, I recurred ratchet bombs late game and win via aggro beats. Won the second game for the match via grind out to combo off with painter.
2-0 Junk: Won 2 games in about 4 turns total against junk. My hands were nuts.
2-0 vs stone blade
Room was full of greedy mana bases and RG lands but never paired against them. So I got to test against much tighter match ups. But I hope the meta out there starts to look like that! Go Bloodmoon!
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Went 5-0 at the local tonight, beating the following decks:
2-1 vs. Burn
2-1 vs. G/W Aggro
2-0 vs. 4 Color Pyromancer
2-1 vs. Sneak and Show
2-1 vs. Reanimator
I used the following list:
Imperial Painter
[4x] Imperial Recruiter
[4x] Painter's Servant
[3x] Simian Spirit Guide
[2x] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
[2x] Magus of the Moon
[1x] Goblin Welder
[4x] Grindstone
[2x] Ensnaring Bridge
[2x] Lotus Petal
[2x] Sensei's Divining Top
[4x] Blood Moon
[4x] Red Elemental Blast
[4x] Pyroblast
[3x] Lightning Bolt
[1x] Slice and Dice
[5x] Mountain
[4x] City of Traitors
[4x] Ancient Tomb
[2x] Bloodstained Mire
[2x] Great Furnace
[1x] Crystal Vein
//Sideboard
[4x] Trinisphere
[4x] Tormod's Crypt
[2x] Pyrokinesis
[2x] Slice and Dice
[1x] Viashino Heretic
[1x] Ensnaring Bridge
[1x] Faerie Macabre
This list will absolutely change before EE3 this weekend. What those changes are, you'll find out.
You really need to change the 2nd lotus petal to the 4th spirit guide. There is really no reason for that split when you are mono red and only running one goblin welder. Especially when you are running Pyrokinesis in the board as well as trinispeheres
I'm still curious what the two furnaces do with just one welder
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Does it not seem reasonable to double the odds of finding it by playing two? No tutor, two tops, no Magma jet means one is not terribly consistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Still, I would play zero to maximize manabase stability.
Yeah exactly, while zero seems optimal (perhaps only in a vacuum) two seem not to be hindering him in any way, seeing as he's 14-2 with this build. Was just curious
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No offense to mono red players, but looking at Keller's list, it just seems like you have to be running so hot to do well. Like how did he beat any reasonable reanimator player? Hit his one faerie macabre 2 games in a row? More power to you, and I guess I can't argue with results. But the draws just have to be so tight with mono red.
Also, anyone going to the GP? I might actually bite the bullet and make the trip out there. Gonna also try to stream more before then and always enjoy company. Hive mind strategery is always advantageous. Unfortunately dailies never fire online anymore so it's all just queue battles.
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There are also 4 Tormod's Crypt in the SB... giving him 5 hate cards to draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
Ensnaring Bridge and REB / Pryoblast have some good play gainst Reanimator as well, and Moon / Magus can be devistating.
It's a different style and instead of playing haymakers like in RW you have it's more about slowly closing the windows and locking the doors and putting the game out of there reach.
Sometimes all it takes to win, is to just keep your opponent from winning long enough.