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Two questions:
1) Would replacing Abyssal Persecutor with Phyrexian Obliterator be a viable option. It allows us to run something better than Cabal Therapy and Innocent Blood.
2) What's the argument for not including Dark Ritual? I'm sure this must have been discussed previously. Can anyone summarize?
Obliterator is very good but the argument against it is that you can't cast with it Wasteland (though if you're going to be sacrificing Waste anyway this isn't really relevant).
Dark Ritual is not wanted here because The Gate wants consistency, not explosiveness. If you want to be explosive, play Eva Green.
Cabal Therapy is so powerful I can't imagine wanting to cut it, with or without Persecutor. There is still good synergy with Bitterblossom. Gotta remember that we are dead to a resolved Batterskull and oftentimes Cabal Therapy is the best, if not only way to get rid of it (after they Stoneforge for it).
I'm looking to pick this deck up. Assuming I have no budget limitations, what would the ideal list be with an unknown meta?
Here is my list. It's tuned for my local meta, but can give you some ideas.
4 Dark Confidant
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Innocent Blood
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Bitterblossom
3 Smother
2 Liliana of the Veil
19 Swamp
2 Wasteland
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
This is my current list.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Innocent Blood
3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
4 Wasteland
17 Swamp
Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Spinning Darkness
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing needle
3 Dystopia
I plan to replace Extirpate with Thorn of Amethyst, though I am not sure that is the best card to replace. I am also considering Dark Ritual in main, but not sure what I would remove for that.
Any feedback is welcome.
I tried Dark Ritual in the main, and it didn't work too well. We're all about grinding out incremental card advantage, and with ritual we set ourselves up to get completely blown out. For instance, if we go turn 1 Inquisition, and they Force of Will, we basically get a 2-for-1. We like that. If we go Turn 1 Dark Ritual, Nighthawk, and they Force of Will, they just broke even. I think Dark Ritual is best saved for a deck like Pox that wants to operate with an empty hand.
The odds for that to happen is very small. IIRC to have a specific card (dark ritual) in starting hand is slightly less than 50%, if you run four copies.
The same applies to your opponent of course. Then you need to win the dice roll for the right to go first. After all if your opponent win he will have a land in play for Daze. Unless you cheat you will win 50% of the rolls. And finally fow is not played by every opponent in a tourney.
So the math is something like:
.5*.5*.5*x = irrelevant risk
I don't disagree with the math. I just don't think The Gate can afford to run Ritual because of the blowout potential AND it being a dead card in the late game.
It's also worth noting that it doesn't have to be Force of Will blowing us out.
Ritual - Creature <---- Swords to Plowshares
Ritual - Bob, Hymn, Bitterblossom, Jitte <--- Spell Pierce
The possibility of any of those plays happening just feels really bad for The Gate.
Why are you discussing dark ritual when theres Deathrite Shaman? Seems awesome for The Gate. Unfortunantely it forces you to have fetches and drop innocent bloods for something else.
I don't think Shaman is a good card for The Gate for those reasons. I don't see any point in fetches when running mono and Innocent Blood is one of the stronger cards in this deck in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsck
That is of course Meta dependent. RUG, BG, combo etc etc. Lots of decks that have neither of those cards mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoxBropal
Myself I am thinking maybe running Hypnotics in my (non-gate) deck.
Speaking of the meta, has anyone tried the Angel of Despair tech in the sideboard for the Sneak and Show matchup?
Hi i'm a french canadian (sorry for the english)
And i've made a the gate deck.
First of all thanks for making me discover this awsome list
.... I realy enjoy playing this deck!
Im writting this post because i've encounter a burn deck with
Ensnaring bridge & sulfuric vortex and i just can't win any games...
Ensnaring bridge block my creature... Vortex kill me slowly and stop my
Life gain... I just don't know what to do.
I've try the rack and ratchet bomb but that's to slow...
When i destroy a bridge another come into play very fast..
My deck list is very similar to the classic one with liliana and
Sensei divining top in addition...
If someone have any suggestions that would be realy appreciate.
Thank you! Sorry again for the english mistakes!
Well, usually is this case you try to make them discard it before it hits play, but it is very hard to deal with indeed when it hits playQuote:
Originally Posted by loic
Also, do you happen to play in montreal?
Nice to have you in The Gate forum!
Mono red with Ensnaring Bridge and Sulfurix Vortex... Was it a Burn deck, post sideboard?
We pretty much get hosed by artifacts and enchantments. Your best bet is to flush them out with Cabal Therapy. Surgical Extraction in the sideboard is nice too. Once the pesky artifacts/enchantments are out of his deck, we have a good matchup against burn in my opinion.
Can you post your list with sideboard?
Yes it's a mono red burn deck with bridge and vortex in the main deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoxBropal
I have no problem with dredge, death& taxe, merfolk... Etc
But when i play against this burn i just can't win...
I will post the list very soon...
Just tought about gate to phyrexia?
What do you think about it?
Imma try more discard but i'm not sure it will be enough to defeat it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
I actualy never played in montreal but maybe in a near future... I'm from quebec city!
Here's my deck
Creatures (14):
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Liliana of the Veil
Spells(24):
3 Bitterblossom
3 Cabal Therapy
3 hymn to tourach
4 Innocent Blood
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 duress
3 go for the throat
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Land(20)
16 swamp
4 wasteland
SB
4x fairy macabre
2x extirpate
2x soul spike
2x spinning darkness
2x deathmark
3x ratchet bomb
Liliana's Ulitmate can work. If your opponent must chose to keep eihter the bridge, or the lands, it is good for you.
There are other options:
One is to accept that there is one particular deck that is a bad match up for you.
This let you avoid making any changes to your deck.
second, try another win condition. If the opponent run bridges then go play the rack and shrieking affliction. This turn his sideboard against him. You could also, if you manage to recuced his life by attacking with creatures before the bridge is played, use a non-creature finish spel like corrupt, drain life, kaervek's spite. Or Soulspike. Since you allready play two Soulspike adding two more to the sideboard is the easiest solution.