[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

Should be some Jaces in there somewhere. And yeah -- think of it as a value-based control deck (because that's what it is). You aren't playing 8 1/1's. You -are- playing 4 Harrows that don't require you to sac a land, and 4 Explores, which happen to all do double duty and block for you as well as their spell effect. UG shouldn't be a problem -- something like Forest Trop or Bayou Trop is fairly common. Island Bayou. Whatever. Lots of ways to make it work as long as your mana base isn't built horribly wrong. And what "real stuff" are they doing?

They go land Hierarch pass. You go land Therapy (Knight), whiff seeing like Qasali, Stoneforge, Swords, land, land, let's say. They make land -> Qasali, swing for 2. You drop land -> Oracle, flip land, cast Explorer, flashback Therapy saccing Explorer, taking the Stoneforge, getting two more basics, casting another Oracle, revealing Deed.

And that isn't really "tipped" in the favor of the Nic Fit player, either. It's just a fairly common sequence of plays that has you up so many cards on your opponent that it isn't even funny.

I'm playing the rector build. I keep getting smashed but terminus then EOT Entreat. If I can get through terminus Entreat the Angels wont be a problem. Which Planeswalkers would be best to fit a Rector build? I was thinking using 2 Primal Hunters. Was thinking of using Garruk Relentless but he will never flip vs UW Miracles. I'm basically torn between Garruk Primal Hunter and Elspeth, Knight Errant.

With Rector you can cheat out Raking Canopy and nullify Entreat the Angels; it is tech being run by Enchantress

I am rather new to Nic Fit and started reading this thread with great interest.

How about a pernicious deed to deal with the angel tokens? In the W/U match up you should have some left for these situations or am I missing something?

Also some advice please: When getting to know the deck is it best to start of with a straight BG list or can I attempt the rector build which really appeals to me.

I actually like Raking Canopy a lot -- synergizes really nicely with Moat. Actually wasn't aware that card existed, lol. Now I need to find a foil xD

@Cire_dk -- IMO you can start with whatever version you want. Just keep in the back of your mind that you're not going to do so hot for a while. This archetype in general (and the Rector and Gifts versions in specific) are really, really hard to play. I loaned out my Rector build at my local last night, and a pretty competent magic player stumbled his way to 2-1-1, making oodles of misplays along the way. It happens, it's a tough deck. Just be patient with it, and it will reward you, though -- helps that you get to play one of the most fun decks in the format =) If you've got any questions or need any advice, we're here.

@general -- I played the Scapeshift version last night at my local, and went 4-0, beating Zoo, Deadguy, Burn, and RUG (in order). Zoo was zoo....Deadguy I was dead on board but combokilled him when he was at 33 life. Valakut x2 + 7 mountains = 42 to the dome =D The burn player and I have discovered in the past that I can actually race him, which is what happened last night, and then RUG was a slaughterfest. My deck actually felt like working for once against this particular player, and it walked all over him. G1 I Therapy'd his hand to shreds with an E-Wit after a Vet/Tower, then dropped 'Tusk and rode him to victory. G2 I had more modest ramp, but my Therapy snagged two Brainstorms, then in response to his Ponder (only land in play), I REB'd his Delver, which he Force'd. Then there was double Huntmaster, and he died.

Planning on playing the Scapeshift version at Jupiter this weekend. It's been running well for me lately, and I have an itch to play it. I'm going to be aggressively weaning the sideboard Wish targets down to the cream of the crop and trying to squeeze in a few more actual board cards. My maindeck is the same as the one that I made the finals of Mythic with, with the exception that I cut the Broodmage Dragon for a 2nd Thragtusk. Depending on how severely I trim the wish package, I might shave to 3 Burning Wishes....but I don't think that's going to happen. My guess is I'll end up around 9-10 Wish targets and 5-6 board cards. I'll keep you guys posted =)

@Arian Cire is actually a friend of mine and member of our team, so he'll be getting lots of advice and help in learning how to pilot the deck for sure:)
I like it that the Scapeshift version is working well, i thought about trying it, but Brainstorms and Jaces are calling me, so i'll be going to Gifts for now :)

@Arianrhod - Could you post your scapeshift list? Couldn't find any examples of it in the primer you posted a couple pages back

Sure. Here's my latest take on it -- sideboard is being worked on a lot right now, but the maindeck is pretty much fixed for the moment.


4 Veteran explorer
2 Eternal witness
3 Wood elves
3 Huntmaster of the fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval titan

3 Sensei's divining top

3 Pernicious deed

4 Burning wish
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Scapeshift
4 Cabal therapy
4 Green Sun's zenith

5 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Phyrexian tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Bayou
4 Taiga
3 Badlands
1 Stomping Ground

//SB
3 Red elemental blast
2
1 Tsunami
1 Innocent blood
1 Reanimate
1 Scapeshift
1 Virtue's Ruin
1 Haunting echoes
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Pulverize

How does Valakut work with Blood Moon? Why 3 Huntmasters and 2 Thrags? Afraid of burn much?

Also, this Scapeshift list looks like it folds to Storm and High Tide.

Played Punishing Fire Nic Fit tonight. I actually really like it much more than I thought I would. Went 2-2 kind of a disappointing finish but still had a blast!

Game 1: Burn 1-2

Basically he was top decking with me at 3 so he was top decking pretty live. He then got a fire last with me about to untap with an ooze. I feel like I want a bit more for this match up, but I'm not sure if thragtusk is it.

Game 2: RUG Delver 2-0

Pretty much destroyed him. I mean this is almost unloseable if you play tight. Don't think I was ever really in danger.

Game 3: UB Stiflenaught. 2-1

It was a very good game. Game 2 he got me with snapcaster beats thanks to stifle and trickbind being very good against us! Game 3 I got Liliana up to like 11.... Her ultimate just never seems to be needed.

Game 4: Goblins 1-2

Man. This was heartbreaking. Game 3 I therapy away 2 opening hand vials from him, and tear his hand to pieces with a triple therapy draw. But goblins actually is pretty good against us I think. They just have amazing natural cardvantage and it's a creature deck that deed doesn't just totally own.

Overall the combo was pretty good, though I may need to change some stuff up to accommodate it a bit. Huntmaster... I really like him, and he seems good, but against burn actually may not be as good as kitchen finks or spike feeder. Seeing as I have played either mono red or UR Delver every week I think I want some more burn hate... But what?

@scapeshift list: is SDT still necessary(good) without fetch lands? I know there is a lot of shuffle effects, but I think top is much worse without fetchies...
I thought of running 1 more deed and 2 discard spells instead or skeletal scrying

@Qweerios -- REBs help a lot, but I agree that the matchups are tricky. Ironically, a local High Tide player is actually more scared of the Scapeshift list than he is of my Rector build, because of its ability to just flat out kill him out of nowhere. Burning Wish -> Cranial Extraction is good, but TES is definitely not a fun matchup due to their varied lines of play. That, it is possible for the deck to get a turn 3 kill, which is the same speed as High Tide. It's just substantially less likely, lol.

3 Hunts and 2 Thragtusks is largely for RUG, actually, although making burn facepalm is good too. Hunts and Tusks are both pretty much better than their entire deck, with Tusk trading with Goose twice, and Hunts providing a stream of life, Delver kill, and wolf tokens. I am contemplating trimming one Huntmaster, but I'm unsure for what. Probably Scavenging Ooze.

Valakut does not interact favorably with Blood Moon. However, Blood Moon is rarely played currently, and Valakut, while Plan A, is hardly my only way of winning. This version also runs more basics than any other version, at a solid 10, so while Blood Moon is certainly obnoxious, it's not the end of the world. Also worth remembering is that usually the Blood Moon decks expend a lot of resources on getting Blood Moon out, and getting it out fast. They hope that the damage caused will make up for the resources they spent on it -- which is not the case here. If I need to, I can always Pulse a Blood Moon later in the game, and then just win. But I can also go beatdown, go valuetown with Huntmaster and Top, and go Burning->Haunting Echoes ftw.

@Alex -- As above, Top has other uses in this deck besides just the filtering, although that is certainly still important. Huntmaster and Top enables easy flipping for value (gets really silly with 2 Tops). This deck also pulls its land out really, really quickly, which allows Top to be a lot better than it usually is, actually. It's really rare where you get the triple land Top, or some other circumstance that actually requires you to shuffle. Usually you'll spin Top and see something like Land Tutor Creature, and then it's just a matter of what you want.

3 Deeds has been more than enough in this version, because you have additional sweep options out of Burning Wish. Skeletal Scrying isn't a horrible idea, although without Fetches, this version puts a lot fewer cards in the graveyard, and most of what it does, you want to Witness back later, so I'm not sure how good it would end up actually being.

@Megadeus -- are you running Thragtusk? The Tusk is pretty good at embarrassing burn, and so is Huntmaster. Worst case he's going to get you 2 life when he comes in, and then probably another 3 life when they aim a bolt at him. If they don't kill him, he's going to start getting really problematic for them as you start flipping him back and forth.

As for Goblins, did you get PFire online in that matchup? Seems like PFire would be better than that whole deck, although I agree that being Deed resistant is really annoying. I've never understood why Gobs have so many 4-drops. They're goblins, they're supposed to be diminutive and annoying, not beefy and annoying. If you're more worried about that in the future, you might want to consider adding a pair of Damnations to the board...that, combined with Deed and PFire, should fix that problem.

Am currently testing the BUG version running Gifts Ungiven package. For reference, am using Qweerios' list and the other dude from the previous pages(sorry can't remember his name).

I have played Vintage Gifts lots of times before and was hoping this was something of the same direction. With this mindset, am i playing the deck wrong? Casting gifts once is not usually eough to win the game.

Couple of questions:

1) How have the Zenith been so far? Lists usually run 3 pcs but with no Arbor to fetch, it xomes online on turn 2 which I find slow.
2) Coiling Oracle is great but how many is the correct number? Currently running 3 but how often do you Zenith it into play rather than Explorer?
3) I find Fierce Empath to be narrow. It only fetches Kokusho or Titan and nothing else. Is it really needwd? Can't fetch 5cc below(thragsk) so if we are to cut it, what would you put? The new M13 ceit maybe?
4) Lastly, am not liking the Kokusho loop. I would prefer the Grave Titan and another crit and go the beatdown route. Will also look for another crit to replace it. I saw Qweerios list running Primeval so will test that too.
5) I haven't tested the Jace version of the deck so wantin to ask others whatvis the advantage of it over the gifts version?

Planning to run this in a tournament so i would appreciate it if i could understand the deck bettwe. Thanks in advance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

4 Veteran explorer
2 Eternal witness
3 Wood elves
3 Huntmaster of the fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval titan

3 Sensei's divining top

3 Pernicious deed

4 Burning wish
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Scapeshift
4 Cabal therapy
4 Green Sun's zenith

5 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Phyrexian tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Bayou
4 Taiga
3 Badlands
1 Stomping Ground

---

If I may ask some questions....
- How's only 1 P. Titan working for you? Don't you miss more?
- 4 Therapy for only 15 creatures. Profitable?
- How often can you kill with Scapeshift? Do you find it a good solution/game kill?
- Do you find the deck slow? Heavy curve? ...

Thanks :wink:

Cabal therapy for 15 creatures + 4 Zenith, also you need something to kill the explorer!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by david.gerco

If I may ask some questions....
- How's only 1 P. Titan working for you? Don't you miss more?
- 4 Therapy for only 15 creatures. Profitable?
- How often can you kill with Scapeshift? Do you find it a good solution/game kill?
- Do you find the deck slow? Heavy curve? ...

Thanks :wink:

---

Sure =) Questions and answers are always encouraged in this thread -- discussion is good!

The 1x Primeval has been perfectly fine for me. What I get with it wildly depends on what my line of play is -- sometimes I get Phyrexian Tower + Volrath's Stronghold, sometimes I grab the Valakuts, or a Valakut and a mountain, or two mountains, or two non-mountains. Usually, whatever it grabbed when it came into play, I win shortly thereafter, regardless of whether it sticks around or gets removed on sight. As such, IMO extra copies are redundant. Green Sun can grab it when I need to...no need to clog up the deck. I used to run a Broodmate Dragon alongside it, but that got taken out for a 2nd Thragtusk to improve the RUG matchup. At this point, I don't believe a 2nd 6+ drop is necessary in this version.

Cabal Therapy is always a 4-of in Nic Fit, no matter what version you're running. The synergy between Therapy and Explorer is what the deck is based around, and you want the maximum number of chances to make that happen. GSZ usually gets either a Veteran or a Wood Elf early in the game, both of which we're fine flashing back Therapy with. Huntmaster brings puppies which can be used, etc. I've never had a problem with Therapy...even in versions that run fewer creature than this. Modern legacy decks tend to give their opponents a lot of information, too, so even if you can't flash it back, it's okay. I'm looking specifically at Delver and Stoneforge, although if you're fairly intelligent and you've got a little experience with legacy, you can usually jedi your way into some good blind names.

Scapeshift kills happen somewhere just over half of the time. It's definitely my plan A with the deck, although, as I've noted before, I can win just fine without it. Scapeshift has won me games that I think basically no other card that is castable in Legacy could actually win, so yeah, I'm pretty happy with it, lol. Most of the time, all you need is 7 lands, and you win the game -- Valakut + 6 mountains = 18 damage. Most legacy decks do that missing 2 points of damage to themselves, through Forces, fetches, or other misc. sources. It's also not exactly hard for you to deal two damage to your opponent at some point before you hit 7 lands, although my preferred method is playing highly defensively and letting my opponent take themselves to 18. Depending on what I'm playing against, I don't even swing with my Veterans most of the time...they're almost always better held back as blockers -- either your opponent swings in, and you get lands, or they don't, and you make land drops the old fashioned way / Wood Elves. Sometimes swinging for those 2 points is correct, but it takes a bit of learning to judge properly.

I actually find the Scapeshift version the fastest version of the deck, by far. It can rarely stall out just by nature of not running fetches, but again, that's rare. Scapeshift is a very efficient win condition, and if Scapeshift is turned off somehow, the deck is perfectly fine dropping Tusks, Primeval, and Hunts for the beatdown, or Burning for Echoes to strip out your opponent's interaction and leave them crippled while you beat them down for literally anything. Rector and Gifts are both far slower and clunkier than the Scapeshift version...its curve is actually respectable for a legacy deck in general, compared to the rest of Nic Fit as a whole, lol.

I think that thratusk is great, but at 5 mana is it fast enough against burn?

Easily. Burn decks will either burn out your Explorer and proceed to slam their hand on the table, or they'll swing into it with a GobGuide, Figure, whatever. Burn can't afford to sit there and not swing. That guarantees you'll get lands, which means Tusk is easily possible. The only time burn will kill you that quickly is when they have all burn and no dudes, which most stock burn decks play so many dudes that they tend to be pretty slow honestly. Dudes we can handle -- straight spells, not as well. Therapy's good at slowing them down, too. Fireblast is my go-to there, since it's their hardest hitting spell vs us (lol, price of progress), and it's their "finisher"....they can tap out for other burn spells, and then Fireblast for the kill without needing to pass turn.

5 mana really isn't "slow" in this deck, at all. You can get 5 mana on turn 2.

Thanks for the fast response :)

For my experience with the deck, Thratusk is a must against R no Delver, UR Delver and RUG delver (all the evolutions:p) !
It's also pretty good against Control decks. Card advantage :cool:


Arianrhod
One of this deck strengths is to reach high drops easily and fast with the basic land plan by playing Explorer. It's always a good feeling eheh :tongue:

I mean it just seems slow... Hmm I guess I'll pick one up and try it out. I'm so tired of losing to dumb burn decks... Such an awful feeling.