Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoblinZ
Chris Fox playing painter is on the camera now against Gerry Thompson （Gerry is back？）
I don't know why Fox did not play painter in game one, he just died when Gerry resolved sneakattack
In game two, with a welder on play, he should play his bridge...Gerry just played sneakattack into emrakul...what a stupid game...
Lets go back some, Game 1, Gerry counters his Bridge with Spell Pierce, when Chris is on 4 mana with one open and 2 Blasts in hand. He also could have chosen to draw an Lotus Petal (Saw it with Top) to have an extra open mana to be able to cast both... I just don't get the choice there. Maybe he didn't know his opponent was on Sneak and Show on turn 3 but if your opponent is willing to fight over it, I'd be willing to consider fighting back.
Lot's of odd play choices.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
http://mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/actonimpulse.html
What do you Think about This?
Inviato da mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Overcosted, I would rather just play Chandra or Faithless.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spector14
3 mana is a lot. It might be good to find the stone, but I think I would still take looting over this.
I wouldn't mind testing this, however.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I have gone back to the mono red no bridge main roots from last year over the last few weeks with good success.
One card I have really really been impressed with is spellskite. This guy is a house. People can cite "just get another welder" or something of that nature but from my experience over the last few weeks this is not the case. Not even close. Additionally when paired with the afar mentioned welder things really get out of control.
Last week I beat burn (2-0) patriot (2-1) and miracles (2-1). Spellskite was a factor in every win I got.
Additionally I haven't been missing the bridges main as much as I thought I would. I have been running chandra as well, with good results. She rarely sits in your hand or is a dead draw. Often she requires an immediate answer or she will run off with the card advantage.
Finally I can't say enough about good old mountain. With midrange burn and delver strategies all running wasteland and pressure an extremely resilient mana base is just what the doctor ordered. Obviously this is not to take away from the shortcake list which I have played over the last year but some games "just feel right" in the mono red shell.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mcbain
I
Finally I can't say enough about good old mountain. With midrange burn and delver strategies all running wasteland and pressure an extremely resilient mana base is just what the doctor ordered. Obviously this is not to take away from the shortcake list which I have played over the last year but some games "just feel right" in the mono red shell.
In contrast I have been running Rw Painter and loving it. I took a page from Seth's playbook and ran the SFM package in the side. Absolutely convinced this is one of the best sideboard options for the deck.
Tried 2 magus, only 1 e bridge, and 0 koth main. I missed Koth and will probably be putting him back in.
Looking forward to continuing tweaking the few flex slots for SCG Balt coming up.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I love this deck. We all have different builds. I run 2 Bridge and 2 Magus. I think that's what makes this deck different from Jund and what not. 3 Jund players will normally have 59 out of 60 cards be the same, here you truly have options.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ish
In contrast I have been running Rw Painter and loving it. I took a page from Seth's playbook and ran the SFM package in the side. Absolutely convinced this is one of the best sideboard options for the deck.
Tried 2 magus, only 1 e bridge, and 0 koth main. I missed Koth and will probably be putting him back in.
Looking forward to continuing tweaking the few flex slots for SCG Balt coming up.
What are the match ups that benefitted the most from it you think? I have also been debating running this.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
So when Grenzo was spoiled Jack and I bounced ideas about a black splash. He seemed like such a great target for the long game being card advantage, and a huge beater as the game wore on. I think he is def legacy playable although, after doing deck construction with Jack my black splashes basically stopped using him as I found that I could do more powerful things in his place.
As an aside I think most people have come around to the fact that the optimal build of painter is a splash of some sort. While Blood Moon is incredibly strong there are some time that it just isn’t good. That and there are certain decks that our combo strategy doesn’t play well with. Having splashes gives red the things it doesn’t have, namely consistency(in the form of card selection) and better answers(red is notoriously bad at graveyard hate, combo hate, and the ability to grind out a game). The splashes allow the Painter list to diversify its plans and adapt to different strategies. End of aside.
So Jack and I were talking about black and obviously I thought about Entomb. In a vacuum, it is in the five strongest cards in legacy. A one mana tutor for any card is incredibly strong. But what the card really gives you is access to thoughtseize, duress, and cabal therapy. Often times when you are comboing, you only care about one or two cards your opponent has. Often times you ignore most of what your opponent does. Like many combo decks, we just want to live long enough to hit the combo. In that sense the goyf or delver our opponent plays is only important in that it shortens the time in which we have. Once the resource is played if it cant attack us, or we block it, or we combo the next turn, it does not affect us. With this mentality in mind you can leverage targeted hand disruption for your advantage. And with entomb, Goblin Welder is stronger along with a card like reanimate. Painter is incredibly cheap to reanimate, and the ability to continually bring him and welder back is really strong. And if we are playing entomb, reanimate, you might as well have some other targets. I have been testing one Griselbrand, one iona, and one wurm coil. Those three really help strengthen up some of your worst match ups. Those cards with thoughtseize and cabal therapy(which turns Imperial recruiter into a fucking amazing card) really morph the deck into something different. Now this changes the way the deck plays and blast effects and moons sort of go out the window. You can still one the one magus of the moon in the main as he is easily tutorable. I am not saying this is the definitive form of the deck, but an interesting idea that needs more exploration. I was looking over my list and realized that the deck is essentially the same as it was 5 years ago. I am not sure what that says but a fresh perspective on the deck is something worth exploring. I do feel that this does offer more options and versatility at a loss of the blood moon plan. So as such it will not supplant the Imperial Painter shortcake list, but be an alternative. I will include a rough list below, but I encourage the board members to test it out.
4 entomb
4 reanimate
4 goblin welder
4imperial recruiter
3 painters servant
4 grindstone
4 cabal therapy
3 thoughtseize
1 griselbrand
1 iona
1 wurm coil
1 jaya ballard
23 lands( with some distribution of artifact lands, sol lands, and duals)
2 SDT
1 exhume
Sideboard
Flavor to suit
This is just a start. I have done some testing over the past month and I do like the way it feels although it plays vastly different. I am not posting my most up to date list as I want to see what you guys come up with and it is far from over. I am on the fence if I will try this at Bmore in two weeks or run my standard shortcake list.
Seth
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sroncor1
So when Grenzo was spoiled Jack and I bounced ideas about a black splash. He seemed like such a great target for the long game being card advantage, and a huge beater as the game wore on. I think he is def legacy playable although, after doing deck construction with Jack my black splashes basically stopped using him as I found that I could do more powerful things in his place.
As an aside I think most people have come around to the fact that the optimal build of painter is a splash of some sort. While Blood Moon is incredibly strong there are some time that it just isn’t good. That and there are certain decks that our combo strategy doesn’t play well with. Having splashes gives red the things it doesn’t have, namely consistency(in the form of card selection) and better answers(red is notoriously bad at graveyard hate, combo hate, and the ability to grind out a game). The splashes allow the Painter list to diversify its plans and adapt to different strategies. End of aside.
So Jack and I were talking about black and obviously I thought about Entomb. In a vacuum, it is in the five strongest cards in legacy. A one mana tutor for any card is incredibly strong. But what the card really gives you is access to thoughtseize, duress, and cabal therapy. Often times when you are comboing, you only care about one or two cards your opponent has. Often times you ignore most of what your opponent does. Like many combo decks, we just want to live long enough to hit the combo. In that sense the goyf or delver our opponent plays is only important in that it shortens the time in which we have. Once the resource is played if it cant attack us, or we block it, or we combo the next turn, it does not affect us. With this mentality in mind you can leverage targeted hand disruption for your advantage. And with entomb, Goblin Welder is stronger along with a card like reanimate. Painter is incredibly cheap to reanimate, and the ability to continually bring him and welder back is really strong. And if we are playing entomb, reanimate, you might as well have some other targets. I have been testing one Griselbrand, one iona, and one wurm coil. Those three really help strengthen up some of your worst match ups. Those cards with thoughtseize and cabal therapy(which turns Imperial recruiter into a fucking amazing card) really morph the deck into something different. Now this changes the way the deck plays and blast effects and moons sort of go out the window. You can still one the one magus of the moon in the main as he is easily tutorable. I am not saying this is the definitive form of the deck, but an interesting idea that needs more exploration. I was looking over my list and realized that the deck is essentially the same as it was 5 years ago. I am not sure what that says but a fresh perspective on the deck is something worth exploring. I do feel that this does offer more options and versatility at a loss of the blood moon plan. So as such it will not supplant the Imperial Painter shortcake list, but be an alternative. I will include a rough list below, but I encourage the board members to test it out.
4 entomb
4 reanimate
4 goblin welder
4imperial recruiter
3 painters servant
4 grindstone
4 cabal therapy
3 thoughtseize
1 griselbrand
1 iona
1 wurm coil
1 jaya ballard
23 lands( with some distribution of artifact lands, sol lands, and duals)
2 SDT
1 exhume
Sideboard
Flavor to suit
This is just a start. I have done some testing over the past month and I do like the way it feels although it plays vastly different. I am not posting my most up to date list as I want to see what you guys come up with and it is far from over. I am on the fence if I will try this at Bmore in two weeks or run my standard shortcake list.
Seth
Hi seth!
I like a Lot your idea! It's original!! But when i see This list why don't see faithless looting??
If you want abuse to welder's ability or reanimate big monsters you MUST use That!!
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Seth,
This is very similar to what Chris was playing a few months back. I also played around with the entomb strategy after seeing him try it. I was not convinced... But didn't fully put it through its paces.
As for targets... I think it's better to use artifact fatties as they play well with welder. WCE obviously, but also Inkwell and Sphinx of the steel wind
As for what matches SFM is good for. Several... I have been bringing it in a lot against any deck that wants to beat me down... And miracles (batter skull is so good there ). But also in mat hips where blood moon is dead, or if you can expect a ton of hate coming in. Just having a back up plan that can play both offense and defense is great.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Ish,
He splashed it but without full commitment. I think artifact creatures are good, one reason why wurm coil was picked. But grizzlebrand and Iona are just straight up better reanimate on targets. I do think there is a place for inkwell. And the 2 SDT could easily be faithless looting. As I said it was a framework, and it wasn't even my most updated list. Just wanted to get out there an idea for people to tinker with as I had been seeing a bunch of hybrid lists that looked terrible with strategies that were not synergistic with painter. I feel this deck is. But yeah Chris did run it after Jack and I had been talking about the splash for a bit. Grenzo just committed me to actually testing. Them I ended up cutting him.
About SFM, you want it against stoneblade, BUG, burn, and patriot lists. It hasn't been great against UR delver. I feel that it is ok against RUG delver but that tends to be the easiest of the delver deck to beat in general. I am on the fence when it comes to Death and Taxes. And this isn't Bc it isn't good, but more so I have never found the match up that hard and finding things to pull out is really hard. So it usully never came in as just getting the 4 Firebolts in was difficult for me. Hope that helps on some thoughts of the SFM package.
Seth
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Thanks for the tips guys, gonna be running a SFM package for sure. So I see people talking about the good painter players streaming or what not, any chance I could get a link to that?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chrstphrbrnnn
Thanks for the tips guys, gonna be running a SFM package for sure. So I see people talking about the good painter players streaming or what not, any chance I could get a link to that?
http://www.twitch.tv/kapncook/profil...pastBroadcasts
I have enjoyed watching Jack stream, it can definetely help you become a better Painter.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I would like to understand one part. Tutor seems to be a key part of the deck. Hoewver once you play blood moon, there is no way for you to use tutor anymore as there is no plains in your deck? So basically we just accept that tutor is now a dead card until blood moon is disenchanted?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oliverpool
I would like to understand one part. Tutor seems to be a key part of the deck. Hoewver once you play blood moon, there is no way for you to use tutor anymore as there is no plains in your deck? So basically we just accept that tutor is now a dead card until blood moon is disenchanted?
Lotus Petal. But yes, you must consider this before casting the moon and also keep this in mind when you SDT. The card can clog up your hand and lift bridge but you can pitch it to jaya if needs be.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
The white cards can kill you in that situation, but will win you far more games than they will ever lose you.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
The white cards can kill you in that situation, but will win you far more games than they will ever lose you.
I have been mainly playing with the R/U painter and the Monored so far. for R/W, it seems that you usually want to play Blood Moon asap like in turn 1 if possible. So in the games I played, it just seem a dilemma to wait to play tutor first if you have it in hand or see it with top or to play blood moon to shut down your opp asap. Guess I still have to play it more to see. Of course having it to fetch cards like bridge and all is a real plus point.
I have not had the chance yet (playing only on MTGO) but is it possible to win if you have grindstone in play with painter in the graveyard and vice versa with welder in play as well? As in to win in the same time?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oliverpool
I have been mainly playing with the R/U painter and the Monored so far. for R/W, it seems that you usually want to play Blood Moon asap like in turn 1 if possible. So in the games I played, it just seem a dilemma to wait to play tutor first if you have it in hand or see it with top or to play blood moon to shut down your opp asap. Guess I still have to play it more to see. Of course having it to fetch cards like bridge and all is a real plus point.
I have not had the chance yet (playing only on MTGO) but is it possible to win if you have grindstone in play with painter in the graveyard and vice versa with welder in play as well? As in to win in the same time?
If grindstone and welder are in play and painter is in the graveyard, you activate grindstone, with it's ability on the stack you weld out grindstone for painter, name a colour, then grindstones ability resolves removing your opponents deck. If painter is in play and grindstone is in the yard, you need to either wait a turn, or have 2 welders.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
If you have a moon in hand and a Tutor, I would debate that your best turn one play will be to slam moon a good amount of the time. That's twice as true for decks that Bridge will kill. If bridge us so effective, your first turn play likely should be to get a bridge.
Also, last Tuesday I had a situation pop up where I went turn one tutor into turn two moon. That is exactly the line of play I am unwilling to give up on.
