[Deck]BUx Reanimator

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

Hey all,

I have been acquiring the cards for reanimator because it looks like it is pretty broken and fast enough to get under Miracles a lot of the time, but I am a little confused about some of the options and what matchups they make better and worse?

For the reanimation targets, why Jin-Gitaxious/Sire over additional Griselbrand? Why not or why to include Grave titan main and or tidespout tyrant? Is aetherling vs inkwell just preference out of the sideboard? Also for the maindeck, what does running or not running ponder say about how you expect the deck to work, likewise hapless researcher/JVP.

Finally, why are some versions eschewing show and tell completely from the 75, it seems so important when you consider the kinds of hate that people can bring in against you.

Thanks for the advice, I am mostly just looking to understand the pretty diverse versions of the deck that are out there, since there doesn't seem to be a consensus, mainstream build in top 8s.

---

1. Sire is great in a meta where you can expect a lot of storm or really any combo deck that requires a critical mass of cards to win (I'll include sneak and show in that as well and kinda infect). If you can land him it's usually game over for those decks.

2. Grave Titan is good against Liliana of the Veil decks specifically, but is a beating against any fair deck in general. You can also realistically cast him if the game drags on which you can't say for a lot of the creatures. Tidespout Tyrant is lights out against Lands and generally very good against the big mana decks like MUD where you can bounce their expensive crap and go to work on their mana base.

3. Aetherling is specifically for Miracles since it's so hard for them to deal with. Inkwell is kinda a generally good card since it's so big, has shroud, and is mostly unblockable since so many decks in legacy play blue (plus trample). Some people like him as a sideboard card to bring in against Death and Taxes since all your legendary threats are so anemic in that matchup.

4. I really like Ponder since this is a combo deck and Ponder is always good in combo decks. I haven't played Hapless Researcher so I'm not gonna try to speak on him. JVP is a good card in Reanimator but its possible he's better as a sideboard card. On the one hand, he does everything you want (loot, flashback discarded/countered spells). On the other hand, he's a 2 drop that does nothing when you cast him while this deck is trying to be lightning fast game 1. In sideboarded games that tend to slow down to a grind when you have to slog through hate, he's a lot more reasonable of a card.

5. The biggest problem with Show and Tell is that Reanimator isn't really designed to be a Show and Tell deck. You've got cards like Entomb and Careful Study that are in the deck to get creatures into the yard, but you don't want that at all with S&T. It kinda pulls the deck in two different directions. It really comes down to personal preference though, S&T is definitely a powerful card that just invalidates a large amount of hate cards that will be brought in against you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

Hey all,

I have been acquiring the cards for reanimator because it looks like it is pretty broken and fast enough to get under Miracles a lot of the time, but I am a little confused about some of the options and what matchups they make better and worse?

For the reanimation targets, why Jin-Gitaxious/Sire over additional Griselbrand? Why not or why to include Grave titan main and or tidespout tyrant? Is aetherling vs inkwell just preference out of the sideboard? Also for the maindeck, what does running or not running ponder say about how you expect the deck to work, likewise hapless researcher/JVP.

Finally, why are some versions eschewing show and tell completely from the 75, it seems so important when you consider the kinds of hate that people can bring in against you.

Thanks for the advice, I am mostly just looking to understand the pretty diverse versions of the deck that are out there, since there doesn't seem to be a consensus, mainstream build in top 8s.

---

Most of these points have been discussed extensively before, I'd suggest going back an reading some previous posts on the issues you outline.

• Jin-Gitaxias in a list is usually a hedge against Surgical Extraction and Extirpate, while also providing a life-less way to draw cards consistently. He'll be used to accelerate you into a secondary threat rather then relied on to close the game outright.
• Sire of Insanity is a whole other issue. He was popular before DTT was banned when Omnitell was rampant, coming down fast killed that deck outright, along with a number of other useful combo deck collateral. Now that collateral alone isn't enough to earn a spot in most lists.
• Tidespout Tyrant should be mainboard in every list, he's our only solution to a number of matchups, and in general just good against everything else. Once you know your opponent, you can side him out for better silver bullets, but never before game 1.
• Grave Titan is a big dumb non legendary creature that does great work against Liliana of the Veil and decks that run her. 10 power for 6 mana is an excellent curve as well, and can really tip the math in your favor against simple creatures like Tarmogoyf and Gurmag Angler. He is general purpose enough to get a mainboard slot in most lists.
• Inkwell Leviathan is a little more specific, better evasion but much easier to race outright. If your threats are targeted removal, say from D&T in particular, Inkwell is a better choice than Grave Titan.
• If in contrast to targeted removal your threat is sweepers like Terminus, Ætherling is a better choice. You trade a whole turn of the clock for being much harder to kill, albeit much more mana hungry. But the Miracles matchup can also be solved though other cards as well, which is why you don't consistently see Ætherling in lists compared to Inkwell, which serves the D&T matchup better than any other available creature.

Ponder lists are focused on the cards in hand, which is good if you also intend to use Show and Tell as an alternative route. Hapless Researcher focuses on always having access to a discard outlet, along with a number of other nuanced lines of play. Trust me, once you've run Reanimator long enough, you'll know the frustration of having a creature and multiple reamiation effects in hand and watch yourself die to a Tarmogoyf. I've yet to test with the new Jace yet, but everything I've read on here suggests his number 1 use is to eat a counter or removal spell from the opponent.

You'll see Show and Tell not included because frankly, it's a poor strategy for our deck. S&T devoted decks maximize cantrips to assemble an in-hand combo as fast a possible, and we're just not good at matching that efficiency. Most avenues of hate can be better beat with one card answers, allowing us to maintain combo slots and not gunk down the deck with card that are dead without the matching pair.

Hope this gets you closer to where you're trying to get to.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the two different perspectives on the questions I had. I did do some searching around in the thread, but it was hard to find something primer-y that isn't very out of date.

You mentioned that you thought there were "other ways to deal with miracles" when talking about aetherling, could you speak a little more to that? My sense was that the Miracles MU was mostly about just being very fast game 1 and games 2 and 3 were grindier since they bring in a bunch of cards to fight us on the stack, though karakas is a thing to be concerned about against certain versions.

So, I got a phone call from one of my friends from the shop. There is a newcomer that went 4-0 at the Legacy weekly while I was at work. He's running Naya Zoo (!). Apparently he handily defeated BUG, Tin Fins, Death and Taxes, and ANT. Back in the day wasn't Empyrial Archangel the goto to fight Zoo? I'd typically go for Elesh Norn for creature based strat but for any deck packing white I usually don't go for Elesh unless I have Misdirections or Forces.

The way I try to beat Miracles is with Archetype of Endurance and then Iona on white. If it's g2 or 3 and you think they boarded out StP like some Miracles players apparently do, I go for Grave Titan. It's a fast clock that makes them have the Terminus or die.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merfolkotpt

Thanks guys, I appreciate the two different perspectives on the questions I had. I did do some searching around in the thread, but it was hard to find something primer-y that isn't very out of date.

You mentioned that you thought there were "other ways to deal with miracles" when talking about aetherling, could you speak a little more to that? My sense was that the Miracles MU was mostly about just being very fast game 1 and games 2 and 3 were grindier since they bring in a bunch of cards to fight us on the stack, though karakas is a thing to be concerned about against certain versions.

---

Archetype of Endurance plus a second creature is one way as Secretly.A.Bee mentioned. I've used Keranos, God of Storms plus pressure from other creatures to win games, as it's immune to everything they have sans Council's Judgement. Understand, Ætherling is ace against Terminus, but beyond that he's pretty meh, so it's purely a meta call. Other creatures are a less powerful in that one regard, but aim to eliminate a broader spectrum of hate.

Hi there!

I usually play Burn in legacy, and I am wondering if I should even bother sideboarding for Reanimator or just give up on the matchup and save slots. It seems very hard to sb any cards that are strong vs Reanimator and are useful in other matchups. Here are my ideas, and I'd love to hear any thoughts from the enemy.

Burn Sideboard Options:
4x Leyline of the Void - I think this is my strongest option vs reanimator since it doesn't slow me down at all, can't be countered, and doesn't die to abrupt decay. Has some use against ANT and of course storm, but not much else.

2-4x Grafdigger's Cage - Very strong vs reanimator (I think?) but vulnerable to fow, daze, abrupt decay, and discard on the draw. But has use against elves, ANT. and dredge of course. Can also play if drawn later.

2-4x Ashen Rider - Ok this is kind of a crazy idea, I would sb these instead of GY hate and then choose to draw first and discard one in my hand. Then bring it back if they cast Exhume, forcing them to use Reanimate and take 7+ damage which might put them in range of Fireblast etc. This is probably a terrible plan, but Ashen Rider is the best thing I can also sb vs Show and Tell (another miserable matchup for burn) and some Reanimator seem to play show and tell too.

or Sideboard nothing and worry about matchups Burn has a chance against? Have any of you even lost to burn?

Thank you evil Reanimator players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ofchickens

Hi there!

I usually play Burn in legacy, and I am wondering if I should even bother sideboarding for Reanimator or just give up on the matchup and save slots. It seems very hard to sb any cards that are strong vs Reanimator and are useful in other matchups. Here are my ideas, and I'd love to hear any thoughts from the enemy.

Burn Sideboard Options:
4x Leyline of the Void - I think this is my strongest option vs reanimator since it doesn't slow me down at all, can't be countered, and doesn't die to abrupt decay. Has some use against ANT and of course storm, but not much else.

2-4x Grafdigger's Cage - Very strong vs reanimator (I think?) but vulnerable to fow, daze, abrupt decay, and discard on the draw. But has use against elves, ANT. and dredge of course. Can also play if drawn later.

2-4x Ashen Rider - Ok this is kind of a crazy idea, I would sb these instead of GY hate and then choose to draw first and discard one in my hand. Then bring it back if they cast Exhume, forcing them to use Reanimate and take 7+ damage which might put them in range of Fireblast etc. This is probably a terrible plan, but Ashen Rider is the best thing I can also sb vs Show and Tell (another miserable matchup for burn) and some Reanimator seem to play show and tell too.

or Sideboard nothing and worry about matchups Burn has a chance against? Have any of you even lost to burn?

Thank you evil Reanimator players.

---

Faerie macrabe

/thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PirateKing

Archetype of Endurance plus a second creature is one way as Secretly.A.Bee mentioned. I've used Keranos, God of Storms plus pressure from other creatures to win games, as it's immune to everything they have sans Council's Judgement. Understand, Ætherling is ace against Terminus, but beyond that he's pretty meh, so it's purely a meta call. Other creatures are a less powerful in that one regard, but aim to eliminate a broader spectrum of hate.

---

Where the HELL do you get time and space to resolve TWO creatures vs Miracles?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

The way I try to beat Miracles is with Archetype of Endurance and then Iona on white. If it's g2 or 3 and you think they boarded out StP like some Miracles players apparently do, I go for Grave Titan. It's a fast clock that makes them have the Terminus or die.

---

You play Vs very n00bs players...
Post-Side a good Miracles player side out All white removal (at the most 1-2 Removal remain in the deck).
Miracles win Vs us with counter-war and RiP/Priest.
If one Creature enter in our battefield we easy-win the game. Stop.

In Italy the Tier1 is UWR Miracles, so I have in side 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All and 3/4 Show and Tell.

My record for *barely* beating miracles in a pre-sideboard game was 5 reanimations (3 successful), griseldraw 7 twice, and wasting their karakas (before it could be activated). You don't just get 1 reanimation and you're fine, this matchup is miserable. Post-board Boseju plan (for SnT) plan would definitely help though, as it identifies the correct way to fight counterbalance (not fighting it, and staying ahead on deck slots).

When you talk about 1 creature entering for us being autowin vs miracles, remember we lost 8 life reanimating grisel [+1 for fetch maybe] and then lost another 7 as you draw in response to karakas or swords. The other three copies of reanimate are probably useless, and they only need a second land to drop RiP/priest/counterbalance and the game is over. Even pre-board about half of their draws still deal with reanimation spells or their resolved targets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnBell

You play Vs very n00bs players...
Post-Side a good Miracles player side out All white removal (at the most 1-2 Removal remain in the deck).
Miracles win Vs us with counter-war and RiP/Priest.
If one Creature enter in our battefield we easy-win the game. Stop.

In Italy the Tier1 is UWR Miracles, so I have in side 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All and 3/4 Show and Tell.

---

Ah, boseju, THE reason to play show and tell imo.
I do really like exume and Animate the Dead against miracles, just because it seems they have a hard time dealing with them even after balance has joined the field.

P.s. I went 3-3 at my last tournament last week (50 ppl). I was completely disappointed by Iona. Decks have learned to answers it on so many levels that feels bad. Anyway, We're facing an Eldrazi invasion and our deck has the potential to crush it without effort, but they run 4 leyline of the void just for us, so ST might get good again

Inviato dal mio LG-D605 utilizzando Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

My record for *barely* beating miracles in a pre-sideboard game was 5 reanimations (3 successful), griseldraw 7 twice, and wasting their karakas (before it could be activated). You don't just get 1 reanimation and you're fine, this matchup is miserable. Post-board Boseju plan (for SnT) plan would definitely help though, as it identifies the correct way to fight counterbalance (not fighting it, and staying ahead on deck slots).

---

1) Do you speak pre-side, I said post-side. Pre-side we don't have RiP/Priest problem...
2) Post-side we don't play Reanimate, because we have many cards to side out for side in many other cards (we need Abrupt Decay).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fox

When you talk about 1 creature entering for us being autowin vs miracles, remember we lost 8 life reanimating grisel [+1 for fetch maybe] and then lost another 7 as you draw in response to karakas or swords. The other three copies of reanimate are probably useless, and they only need a second land to drop RiP/priest/counterbalance and the game is over. Even pre-board about half of their draws still deal with reanimation spells or their resolved targets.

---

Karakas? Where?

Post-side Miracles leave the removals, if you opponet know how to play. One creature (in the worst scenario) is what we need.:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnBell

1) Do you speak pre-side, I said post-side. Pre-side we don't have RiP/Priest problem...
2) Post-side we don't play Reanimate, because we have many cards to side out for side in many other cards (we need Abrupt Decay).


Karakas? Where?

Post-side Miracles leave the removals, if you opponet know how to play. One creature (in the worst scenario) is what we need.:cool:

---

2) Terrible advice! We need to be as fast as possible against Miracles.

So I played that japanese list with Deathrite Shaman and Liliana and Punishing Fire.

It's pretty fun, it's pretty strong, but you can screw up so easily. Fetching with tops is of paramount importance so you have to sequence it right.

I went 3-1 with a bye, beating elves and normal reanimator, losing to BUG Delver where I could have probably won had I not made numerous errors. I will keep playing it and see how it goes.

I recently picked up reanimator again, here's where I'm at. I think the list is fairly close to where I want to be, but I think I need some extra practice against some of the top decks. The MTGO leagues are apparently overrun with Eldrazi so I've tried to make a list that doesn't automatically lose to a turn one Chalice of the Void on one.

2 Tropical Island
4 Reanimate
4 Careful Study
3 Daze
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Lotus Petal
1 Swamp
4 Force of Will
1 Echoing Truth
3 Griselbrand
4 Exhume
4 Entomb
4 Polluted Delta
3 Ponder
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Island
2 Thoughtseize
1 Tidespout Tyrant
4 Brainstorm
1 Show and Tell
4 Underground Sea
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Flusterstorm

SB

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Massacre
3 Pithing Needle
2 Show and Tell
1 Blazing Archon
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Echoing Truth

All of the discard outlets still cost 1 mana except for Vryn's Prodigy, so I don't think there's going to really be a way to go through a Chalice. Switching the Flusterstorm to a Spell Pierce would help though, giving an efficient and solid answer to Chalice when we're on the play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lormador

All of the discard outlets still cost 1 mana except for Vryn's Prodigy, so I don't think there's going to really be a way to go through a Chalice. Switching the Flusterstorm to a Spell Pierce would help though, giving an efficient and solid answer to Chalice when we're on the play.

---

Yeah I don't have JVP at the moment, but I did want to run one. Spell pierce is probably better than flusterstorm. I'm used to flusterstorm being the stone cold nut in Vintage, but spell pierce is probably just better in this case. I have included the main deck echoing truth and show and tell to give me something to do in case I'm on the draw and I don't have the force for the turn one chalice.

The blazing archon has been great against MUD the few times I've played it. I assume that most eldrazi decks would have to burn two dismembers to take one out and they can't win with it in play. Its my most with a clock you might say.

Yesterday I do 5-1 with this list:
3 Griselbrand
1 Grave Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Hapless Researcher

4 Brainstorm
3 Careful Study
4 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtsize
4 Force of Will

1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta

SB:
3 Show & Tell
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Dread of Night
1 Massacre
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sire of Insanity

The Abrupt Decay into main is the "Innovation". If you prefer a control list than a Explosive list, you can consider this list.
By the way:
4C Delver 0-2 (too fast too many counter)
UWr Miracles 2-1 (lost pre-side)
BUG Team America 2-1 (I have made a mistake with side in G2)
Solitaire (Enchantress) 2-1 (Humility has killed me in G2)
BUG Team America 2-0 (No error with side :tongue:)
Infect 2-1

Top8: D&T... the worst MU. I've waived, with this list D&T is 40:60 pre-side, 70:30 post-side. "Explosive" list could do better...
There is still no Eldrazi Stompy in my meta... on the paper [card]Blazing Archon[/cards] might be the solution IMHO.
Other than that, what is your opinion about this list?

Has anyone considered Ratchet Bomb in the sideboard? Helps against multiple hate cards. Specifically, 2 Deathrite Shamans or Rest in Peace + Counterbalance. Vulnerable to Abrupt Decay but its a proactive way of fighting multiple hate cards. Costs zero mana on the turn we go off, set to 2 can stop Containment Priest even if they flash it in.

Edit: also helps fight Chalice on one or other taxing effects out of Eldrazi.