[Primer] R/G Lands

Has anyone else been trying out Centaur Vinecrasher? I'm really starting to like the card tbh. GY hate is almost nonexistant in the local metas aside from a few cages and the occasional RIP. Actually won me a game against D&T and almost got there against Mud. Plus, you get to kill your opponent with an Actual Literal EDH Rare™ and that's all kinds of value

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Originally Posted by Dominic Pain

Has anyone else been trying out Centaur Vinecrasher? I'm really starting to like the card tbh. GY hate is almost nonexistant in the local metas aside from a few cages and the occasional RIP. Actually won me a game against D&T and almost got there against Mud. Plus, you get to kill your opponent with an Actual Literal EDH Rare™ and that's all kinds of value

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There was discussion about this back in this thread but I don't know if anyone has reported on testing for it.

Personally I'd rather pay 2 more for Primeval Titan, which ensures a game win when it resolves by getting lands.

Mine is in the mail. So as of yet no report. (Command packs are a bitch to find singles from.)

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Originally Posted by Dominic Pain

Has anyone else been trying out Centaur Vinecrasher? I'm really starting to like the card tbh. GY hate is almost nonexistant in the local metas aside from a few cages and the occasional RIP. Actually won me a game against D&T and almost got there against Mud. Plus, you get to kill your opponent with an Actual Literal EDH Rare™ and that's all kinds of value

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I played around with it a bit and found it to just be worse than worm harvest. Miracles was the deck I want this sort of card for and harvest is better in just about every scenario in that matchup except for when you don't have 3 green. I don't really think harvest is where you want to be in RG anyways so I was not very impressed with the card when I was done playing with it.

Honestly, Centaur Vinecrasher just looks bad. Basically you're paying 4 mana for a vanilla X/X that gets destroyed by STP just as much as Marit Lage. Devoting sideboard slots for this versus high-impact cards like Choke is no contest.

Running it for the mirror. That is why I want to test it.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Running it for the mirror. That is why I want to test it.

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Not to join the barcode fanclub or anything : P - but if you have 4 unmolested mana in the Lands mirror to cast the Centaur - getting to 6 mana shouldn't be much of an issue to cast Primeval Titans and basically auto-win. A card that happens to be solid vs Miracles and Show and Tell decks unlike a vanilla X/X.

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Originally Posted by barcode

For the sideboard, 3ball is old tech. They're an easy swap for Primetime and the Molten Vortex can become Sphere (thorn) number four.

For the main: I get nervous with only two Taiga since it's very important to have red sources in aggro matchups for Punishing Fire and green sources for Loam. Swapping a fetch for a Taiga is easy. That segues into only 3 Punishing Fire. Yikes. Is Ghost Quarter good enough in your meta to play it over the 4th Punishing Fire? I would also move the Karakas into the main deck since the decks where it is good are important to steal game 1.

I might be the biggest Primeval Titan advocate and I can tell you why it has such a sweet spot in my heart. In the Show & Tell matchups you have a huge advantage since your card wins the game for you almost right away (of course, unless they put Sneak Attack in, in which case you're a sad panda). Primeval Titan is also a big game against graveyard hate decks - including the mirror - because it searches up the combo and can only really be answered with Swords to Plowshares, once resolved. It's usually the biggest creature on the table and even if it isn't if you attack once with it you should have the game well in hand.

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Mkay, thank you for the side advice. I've liked Prime Time, but didn't know if he was good enough in Legacy to play. For P-Fire and Ghost Quarter, I like the Ghost Quarter for the single reason of the grindy games where strip mine becomes valid over time. It was the sole reason I won games at my last tournament report. I want to add a fourth P-Fire, I just wouldn't know what else to take out. What do you recommend?

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

Mkay, thank you for the side advice. I've liked Prime Time, but didn't know if he was good enough in Legacy to play. For P-Fire and Ghost Quarter, I like the Ghost Quarter for the single reason of the grindy games where strip mine becomes valid over time. It was the sole reason I won games at my last tournament report. I want to add a fourth P-Fire, I just wouldn't know what else to take out. What do you recommend?

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If you're into the long game then Crop Rotation is a good cut for it. You need the Punishing Fires to get to that late game; you'll draw the lands or crop rotations you need later.

Primeval Titan is certainly playable but only really in ramp strategies, which we kind of are. We can cheat lands with Moxes and Explorations and since we play 30+ lands we'll definitely hit them by the time we're interested in casting the Titan. You'll see the 12post playing Primeval Titan too because they can cheat it into play with Show & Tell and they cheat better on mana with Cloudposts.

Riftstone portal, the 4th crop rotation, or moving the bojuka bog to the side and running a leaner board would be my choices if you still want to run ghost quarter but have the 4th punishing fire. You lose a pseudo green source with portal, combo/toolbox potential with rotation, or access to bojuka bog game one. I'm most comfortable with cutting the rotation but I think any of the three is valid.

I'm also a fan of the 3 fetch/3 taiga plan. I feel like it makes punishing fire games quite a bit smoother.

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Originally Posted by barcode

If you're into the long game then Crop Rotation is a good cut for it. You need the Punishing Fires to get to that late game; you'll draw the lands or crop rotations you need later.

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My main problem most of the time is that I often switch between wanting to do a long game or a short game, whether it be LD or a quick Lage. Would it be a good idea to move one Crop Rot to the side in cases where I want to go quickly instead of denial? I figure I could switch one Crop Rot for a P-Fire in those games. Or maybe I could put one Fire in the side?

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Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE

Riftstone portal, the 4th crop rotation, or moving the bojuka bog to the side and running a leaner board would be my choices if you still want to run ghost quarter but have the 4th punishing fire. You lose a pseudo green source with portal, combo/toolbox potential with rotation, or access to bojuka bog game one. I'm most comfortable with cutting the rotation but I think any of the three is valid.

I'm also a fan of the 3 fetch/3 taiga plan. I feel like it makes punishing fire games quite a bit smoother.

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If I moved Bog to the side, would it be good to just cut Molten Vortex out? That's the best option I've found since I never really use Vortex and never want to draw it, it just seemed good for a bit. As for the 3/3 split on fetches and taiga plus forest, why is that better over four fetches and three taiga/one forest?

Building a Fortress #91

Enjoy

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

As for the 3/3 split on fetches and taiga plus forest, why is that better over four fetches and three taiga/one forest?

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Too many slots for non-utility.

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

My main problem most of the time is that I often switch between wanting to do a long game or a short game, whether it be LD or a quick Lage. Would it be a good idea to move one Crop Rot to the side in cases where I want to go quickly instead of denial? I figure I could switch one Crop Rot for a P-Fire in those games. Or maybe I could put one Fire in the side?



If I moved Bog to the side, would it be good to just cut Molten Vortex out? That's the best option I've found since I never really use Vortex and never want to draw it, it just seemed good for a bit. As for the 3/3 split on fetches and taiga plus forest, why is that better over four fetches and three taiga/one forest?

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I was referring to a 4/2/1 split of fetches/taigas/forests. I just like having more taigas to fetch in games where I need to punishing fire the opponent out. It's not all upside because you won't see a fetch as often as you would with the normal setup of 4/2/1. That makes loam slightly worse when you can't find a fetch or if you need your forest badly.

I'm not a fan of vortex so it seems like a fine cut to me. It's ok but it certainly isn't necessary.

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Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE

I was referring to a 4/2/1 split of fetches/taigas/forests. I just like having more taigas to fetch in games where I need to punishing fire the opponent out. It's not all upside because you won't see a fetch as often as you would with the normal setup of 4/2/1. That makes loam slightly worse when you can't find a fetch or if you need your forest badly.

I'm not a fan of vortex so it seems like a fine cut to me. It's ok but it certainly isn't necessary.

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I think I'm confused here. Are you saying that the 3/3/1 split is better, but there is some loss in consistency with the loss of the extra fetch? But that loss is usually few and far between and only makes sense in "oh shit" scenarios? For Vortex, would it just be good to replace it with the Crop Rot I take out of the main? I'm thinking of switching 1 Crop Rot with the Vortex and then just replacing Vortex with the fourth P-Fire. Then I'd take out one fetch for the third Taiga. Does that sounds about right for the main?

Pretty much except I don't think better is really the right term. Like anything else there are pluses and minuses to the change and one configuration isn't "better" than the other. I tend to get into long grindy games so I prefer having access to another taiga since I expect to see a fetch at some point. I think the taiga is more useful in the long game and the fetch is more useful early.

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Originally Posted by Admiral Nobeard

(...) For Vortex, would it just be good to replace it with the Crop Rot I take out of the main? I'm thinking of switching 1 Crop Rot with the Vortex and then just replacing Vortex with the fourth P-Fire. Then I'd take out one fetch for the third Taiga. Does that sounds about right for the main?

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Do you mean 3 CR and 4 Pfire? Remember to always check the meta (fair/ control/ combo?) Marit Lage is our only 'real' MD wincon: getting it online quick can be crucial. It's not like we have a looping board-sweeper (EE) to give us time to set up our combo. I wouldn't cut CR that easily (but it would be an easier cut than, say, Pfire). So, yeah, sounds solid.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Do you mean 3 CR and 4 Pfire? Remember to always check the meta (fair/ control/ combo?) Marit Lage is our only 'real' MD wincon: getting it online quick can be crucial. It's not like we have a looping board-sweeper (EE) to give us time to set up our combo. I wouldn't cut CR that easily (but it would be an easier cut than, say, Pfire). So, yeah, sounds solid.

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Here are the changes I've made so far:

Main: -1 Fetch, -1 Crop, +1 P-Fire, +1 Taiga
Side: -1 Molten Vortex, -2 Trinisphere, +1 Crop, +2 Prime Time

For me, these changes seem pretty good considering the tourney I'm going to at the end of the month. It's the only place near me that does legacy tourneys and it's always fair decks that usually make the top 8. The only exception to the rule is my recent first place finish and my friend coming in fourth on the same day playing dredge. So far, we're the only non-"fair" decks around. Everybody else seems to be playing Miracles, Stoneblade, Delver, Junk, Jund, or Shardless BuG. I think adding one more removal spell may help a lot.

Current side board is this. Thoughts?
4 grips
4 sphere
2 chalice
2 prime time
1 bog
2 choke

Notes:
Main board boseiju because it makes game 1 against miracles very favorable.
Main board karakas

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Originally Posted by Croprot

Current side board is this. Thoughts?
4 grips
4 sphere
2 chalice
2 prime time
1 bog
2 choke

Notes:
Main board boseiju because it makes game 1 against miracles very favorable.
Main board karakas

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This looks like my sideboard except I play Bog in the maindeck and Boseiju in the side. Two life to cast a spell that would resolve anyways is a high price in some game 1s.