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If you are having trouble with your manabase this is THE BEST 5 color manabase for TES I have ever tested:Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperBean
4x City of Brass
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Polluted Delta
1x Scrubland
1x Bayou
1x Volcanic Island
1x Underground Sea
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
4 [5E] City of Brass
2 [R] Volcanic Island
2 [B] Underground Sea
// Spells
4 [ARE] Duress
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
3 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [DM] Dark Ritual
4 [LRW] Ponder
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 4 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [OV] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [US] Meltdown
SB: 1 [OD] Simplify
SB: 3 [5E] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 [6E] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [6E] Shattering Spree
These are the following modifications which have served me well , now I absolutly do not play M.Tutor and for sure I miss the trick but , not much.
I Lost a game which I revealed 3 A.N followedĦĦ Well If one of those cards would have been Tendrils would have been gg ...
Regarding to the side I vebeen testing shaterin spreee ,and from those I prefer an EoT ->return to hand Trini and chalice than Play spree-> tapped -> fuc**d next turn ...
I really love Melt down and simplify (Idea I took fromB.Weapon) is just the perfect puzzle.
The configuration of 12 lands + the high density of threat has been given me good results
This is the list I plan on running post-m10 and since everyone else is posting lists here's what I'm going to run. I decided to stick with mystical tutor as I still need away to find accel and in testing I still use it to find infernal tutor to use LED to cast Ad Nauseam (assuming I can't just do the iGGy Pop loop). I re-added ETW as a win condition since it is just alittle harder to go the tendrils route post-m10 and sometimes 6-10 goblins turn one is good enough.
Lands
4 City Of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
Spells
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite Of Flame
2 Orim's Chant
2 Silence
3 Duress
4 Burning Wish
3 Mystical Tutor
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Empty The Warrens
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Empty The Warrens
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 Infernal Tutor
SB: 3 Shattering Spree
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
I'm running your list with those changes.
MD:
-2 Silence +2 Chant. Still unsure if the untargettability is worth the fog effect against aggro.
-1 CoV -1 ETW +1 AdN +1 Ponder. I love the cantrips, and meanwhile hate the maindeck bounce. The only thing I usually want to bounce is a Counterbalance, and CoV doesn't do the job well. I'd run a single Pyroblast before a single CoV. The things you have to break are usually blue anyway, and frees SB space.
-1 Paradise +1 U.Sea. I suck at making manabases, and I just plain copied this from Bryant. Anyway, I like the duals, especially with the 8 cantrips + 3 mysticals I'm using.
I'm still undecided if I want the 4th IT in the maindeck in place of the 3rd Mystical.
SB:
-1 Shattering Spree
-1 Pyroclasm
-1 Hurkyl
+1 Maelstrom Pulse
+1 ETW (I side in a copy against decks without mass removal)
+1 E.Truth
Pyroclasm is really useless. You want it against zombie/goblin tokens and against hate bears. Considering noone is playing more than one type of hate bears at the same time, and that pulse takes care of enchantments too, it's the card you want in that slot. at 3cc is a bit clunky, but blows counterbalances too.
I tried Bryant's base and had 1-2 occasions where I couldn't make the right mana with a sea. When I used to run 4x gemstone, 4x city, 2x undiscovered paradise the only time paradise was a problem was when i got both of them. By just running a singleton this is never an issue for me. I use the Chain of Vapor sometimes to ramp up storm if I have a lot of artifact mana and can't quite get there.
I think you guys are seriously missing out on Death Mark, it kills every hate bear in the format AND Tarmogoyf for B - Pyroclasm is shit in comparison and 3cc removal is way too clunky.
True, it's clunky, but it gets the job done against counterbalance, and frees SB space. If you want you can play Simplify/Shattering Spree/Deathmark, or use just one slot instead of 3 and run Pulse or Vindicate.Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
I'd go for that configuration too, cause i really like how it can play the removal and win in the same turn. That if it weren't for 3 things:
- Those 2 more SB spaces.
- The fact that simplify sucks, cause it happens that the opponent has some other enchantments
- The fact that simplify sucks more! Cause it will almost never destroy a counterbalance. Seriously, you just got your burning wish through with some luck involved, and you want to also resolve a 1cc spell through CB?
- I don't have an altered simplify.
Simplify will never kill a counterbalance, atleast not in my metagame.
I might consider adding deathmark if I saw more of that white artifact creature that hates on us (I can't think of its name) but I can just use shattering spree on it. I really don't care what my opponents are doing as long as they're not stopping me from winning. They can play a Tarmogoyf, I want to win before it loses its summoning sickness.
@GreenOne
It is good to have 1 infernal tutor in the wish board, there are times where i've been able to win turn 1 because it is there that I wouldn't have been able to otherwise.
If Counterbalance hits, it's usually GG - I don't think it matters what CC your removal is because Burning Wish is just going to get nailed by Counterbalance and Spellsnare. Usually, Simplify is there to deal with randomness like Arcane Laboratory.
SB Infernal Tutor is seriously overrated, you can just win via Returns or Warrens with 3+ mana floating.
Etherswor CannoistQuote:
Originally Posted by lebron jim
@BreathWeapon
You mentioned siding in 3 ETWs against certain decks. I'd kind of like to see your sideboard as it seems very different than what a lot of people are running.
Here it is,Quote:
Originally Posted by lebron jim
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Empty the Warrens
1 Ill Gotten Gains
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Shattering Spree
1 Simplify
1 Death Mark
1 Thought Seize (I run 4 Duress/3 Orim's Chant MD)
4 Pyroblast
Are you siding both ETW and Pyroblast against CB decks? what's your SB plan?Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
No, vs Counterbalance and Spellsnare I SB in 3 Empty the Warrens for Tendrils of Agony, Orim's Chant and Ponder on the play and 4 Empty the Warrens for Tendrils of Agony and 3 Orim's Chant on the draw. Vs Counterbalance and Stifle I SB in Pyroblast for Ponders and Tinder Walls on the draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
If my opponent has sweepers, or Maelstrom Pulse/Echoing Truth etc., I usually SB Empty the Warrens or Pyroblast depending on the CC of the sweeper and whether or not I'm playing or on the draw.
Essentially, you've got 2 SB plans, one that exploits the absence of Stifles and sweepers, and one that's always consistent regardless of their configuration.
You've also got to remember I'm running Tinder Wall, so my ETW plan is consistently more explosive (Mystical Tutor really fucking sucks with ETW).
How do you guys sb against UBG Dreadstill (w/ counterbalance)?
It depends if i'm on the draw or on the play. If i'm on the play, i'd go -1 orim's chant, -1 brainstorm, -1 chrome mox, -1 chain of vapor , +4 pyroblast. If i'm on the draw, duress loses A LOT of its function ( to take off counterbalance or a counter, since the opponent will arguably hide it with brainstorm or even FoW a potential duress to protect that fucking bitch), so i'd go -1 duress, -1 ponder (too slow), , -1 chain of vapor, -1 brainstorm/chant, +4 pyroblast.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebron jim
I'd also like to make a precisation: putting 4 pyroblasts in all the Blue matchups ( as Bryant for example says in the OP) is not always the best option. Against tempo decks, often putting in 4 pyroblasts is way too much overkill in protection AND it's antisynergic with tutors+LED engine. There 'll be times when you'll open with 3 or more redundant pieces of protection, and this not just good, since a tempo deck against combo tipically aims to build a hand with several free counters+stifle, and then on a turn goes for Tarmogoyf/Mongoose beatings and leaves you with 3-4 turns.
Against Ugr Thresh, for example, i'd only go 3 pyroblasts, still keeping the full set of Chants, which allows you both to bluff in multiple copies and to bypass Snare and Stifle, widely played by them.
To me, pyroblast should go as a full set only against decks with Counterbalance, which, if resolved, will cause a serious harm towards us.
@BreathWeapon: I don't consider a lone CB on the board to be an auto GG. In the last tournament, i managed to go off through it. The point is when it's with Top, and the opponent has already a good grip on the match (i.e., several lands untapped and a clock given by a random Tarmogoyf). At that point, it's effectively over; but you can still rip a win even with Top-less CB on the field, given that it doesn't reveal cc1 spells, which play the fundamental role in the 95% of the ways we go off ( ok, there's still tutors-LED-Igg one, but it would mean you go off without protection, either be Chant or Duress, which is really risky..).
Still , I don't know if boarding in several copies of EtW to go belcher is really a good way to end games quickly; of course it has the pros to need a relatively small amount of storm and not to be countered, but a lone EE, which are really played now , can make all your hand wasted for 1 card. Another point is that CB-style decks usually packs lots of cantrips to gain a filtering power (Top, Ponder, Brainstorm), so they'll be allowed to spend that 2 turns topping-fetching-Bstorming a bit to find the solution. Of course this difficultly happens when you get at least 12 tokens on turn1, but it doesn't always go this way..
And i noticed that the majority of opponents, despites maybe not knowing perfectly what TES is ( they use to consider it as a general "Ad Nauseam " deck), pack Pyroclasm or EE, or Firespout in their Dreadstill or Red thresh Sbs, because they're aware of the presence of EtW and side for it. So i really dunno if EtW it's still worth this surprise effect.
Between Engineered Plague and Explosives I really don't think ETW is the way to go through Dreadstill w/ C.B and as I main deck a singleton of it I was planning on siding it out for game 2.
Regardless of Brainstorm, SBing out Duress on the draw is wrong, because you absolutely need to Duress Turn 1 to prevent Counterbalance Turn 2. If they draw Brainstorm and Counterbalance, congratulate them on being a complete luck sack.
Pyroblast, in any number, is never a bad SB card. Pyroblast isn't just disruption, Pyroblast is a counter, sometimes you'll just hit their cantrips and go off. I'm rarely unhappy to see Pyroblast and Duress in multiples, it's usually Orim's Chant I can't stand to be flooded by.
Yes, ETW is risky, but TES is always going to have an unfavorable match up if it tries to go toe to toe with Counterbalance. With ETW, you basically tell them they either need to side in sweepers or get run over. If they do SB in sweepers, you switch to Pyroblast and enjoy the dead card advantage. That's why I run both ETW and Pyroblast, I'm looking to exploit my opponent's lack of one card or another at all times.
Edit: I said you shouldn't be SBing in ETW vs Dreadstill and Red Thresh any way, especially on the draw, so it's a moot argument.