[Deck] Death and Taxes

I took a pretty stock build to the BoM trial at Tales of Adventure in PA on Saturday. The list:

4 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cavern of Souls
10 Plains

4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Serra Avenger
3 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

SB:
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Cataclysm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Wilt-Leaf Leige
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Grafdigger's Cage

R1 vs Oops All Spells (siding to Belcher): he mulls to 5 on the play and casts Gitaxian Probe as his only spell before I cast Thalia and he scoops. Game 2 he literally fails to use the turn 2 win that is, in fact, in his hand and I play Thalia and he scoops 3 turns later.. Not much to say about this one, I guess.

R2 vs TES: I die turn 1 on the play in G1. I land hatebears and win in the next two. G3 he just is too slow, but an interesting situation comes up in game 2 where I play Vial off a Wasteland on turn 1 and he Ponders, and shuffles away a 3 that would win on turn 2 if I missed a land drop, in order to find a way to win through a hate bear, because he'd have a hard time beating one if I had it. He finished 7-1 into top 8 so he clearly knew what he was doing, but in 20/20 hindsight this was a punt and I felt crazy lucky for beating fast combo two rounds in a row.

R3 vs Manaless Dredge: I had Thalia turn 2 both games so he never went crazy and I took game 1 with Mirran Crusader, then Rest in Peace in game 2.

R4 vs Enchantress: I got stomped by and early Sigil pumping out Angels, and Flickerwisp interaction is just nowhere near enough. Then I punt game 2 when I blow a Cataclysm way too early, and he recovers to lock me out successfully. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Enchantress is cold to a well-timed Cataclysm, but I found a way to screw it up. Only clear punt of the day.

R5 vs Junk: I get overwhelmed in game 1 by Lingering Souls and Jitte breaking an empty board, and I win game 2 by cheating Wilt-Leaf into play on a Liliana activation. Ratchet Bomb does strong work in game 3, blowing up a SoFaI and an Oblivion Ring, but we got to time and I make a loose play in turn 1 of turns figuring I need to win rather than draw. I get blown out by Zealous Persecution and we draw in turn 5 while I'm facing lethal on board. I am pretty sure this game was mine if we'd had more time, because I'd figured out the conservative and definitely correct play (which we went over afterwards and I doubt he could have beaten), but it would not have ended the game in 2 turn cycles.

R6 vs Esperblade running Back to Basics: Rishadan Port keeps him out of both games almost completely. His draws were poor overall, and I drew and repeatedly activated 5 Ports (and 3 Wastelands for almost all his naturally drawn duals) across 2 games. It didn't feel very close and I haven't played this matchup enough to know if it was normal or a fluke.

R7 vs TES: mulled a normally good hand (2x Plow, Mystic, Avenger) into a hate bear hand because I was playing Bryant Cook. He crushed me anyway, then hit Ad Nauseum turn 2 off his Brainstorm in game 2 when I had Tutor-> Ratchet for his Empty kill. Not unexpected honestly.

R4 vs Team America I 2-0 him in close games, flying over TNN after establishing a board that can race it. I felt marginally advantaged the whole time but he kept me on my toes.

Finished 5-2-1 for 22nd of 177, prizes paid to top 21 (aka down to x-2). My TES opponents both top 8'd. the list felt great though (except for Bridge, I'm cutting it for Celestial Flare ... Very little Elves around me right now), and my only mistakes were time management in R5 and an obvious punt in R4 that I won't make again. This makes me feel good about the deck going forward. I haven't tried Brimaz yet but Crusader won me 2 games that Brimaz probably would not have, so I'm not going to rush out to grab them just yet.

I have been seeing a lot of Cavern of Souls in various DnT mana bases (2 in the 9th place St. Louis Open last weekend) but my experience with the card has been rather lack-luster considering I tend to prefer having the white source for casting other spells. This is especially due to the fact that we have now so few creatures that share a type.

I have started going with Eiganjo Castle for value but if I start getting wasteland-ed anymore I might just turn it into a plains (or maybe another Horizon Canopy?).

What are everyone's thoughts on Cavern?

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Originally Posted by Rogan

I have been seeing a lot of Cavern of Souls in various DnT mana bases (2 in the 9th place St. Louis Open last weekend) but my experience with the card has been rather lack-luster considering I tend to prefer having the white source for casting other spells. This is especially due to the fact that we have now so few creatures that share a type.

I have started going with Eiganjo Castle for value but if I start getting wasteland-ed anymore I might just turn it into a plains (or maybe another Horizon Canopy?).

What are everyone's thoughts on Cavern?

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In my testing the deck wants 15 colored sources. I think you want ~12 Humans to justify running Cavern of Souls as a colored source. Phyrexian Revoker, Stoneforge Mystic and Spirit of the Labyrinth can at least be cast off one Plains with a Cavern on Human. The more Serra Avengers, Flickerwisps, and Brimaz copies the deck is running, the harder it will be to cast them on curve.

In my experience the Cavern actually names Kor or Artificer most often. Of the times when I want to jam a creature through countermagic, at least 60% of the time that creature is Stoneforge. I generally only name Human against Countertop decks or when it is necessary to fix mana for Mirran Crusader or casting a Plow the same turn. Every time I consider taking the card out, it either gives me game against a Countertop lock or I get a free win when my Delver opponent has Force but not removal for Stoneforge and I feel like I need to keep it in.

I've done quite a bit of t2 cavern on artificer/kor, then later get a flickerwisp in off vial, or just cast it, blink the cavern and call human.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

Given my very limited time playing D&T and legacy in general, I would agree the deck wants 15 colored sources. I don't like having more than 3 karakas, as I've had more starting hands with 2 Karakas and a colorless land than I'd care to remember. And this is coming from someone still running 3x mangara. I do run a single cavern and like others have said it's not unfrequently set on T2 to Kor/artificer. I did pick up one brimaz but he hasn't really had time to prove himself but it's not hard to see the power he has. The Mirran crusader in my list may not have won me games by himself but it definitely does work in those BUG match ups. And poor spirit of the labyrinth, like most I was excited about the card and find it very lackluster. I do have 1 in the board but so far nothing spectacular has come out of it. I think it should be mentioned I only play online so I don't have to tune my deck to some local meta or anything.

I want to thank everyone who has posted in the thread, as I may not have got the deck without all the great and enthusiastic people here. I hope I can help others as you have helped me.

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Originally Posted by SPiTLiCKY

Given my very limited time playing D&T and legacy in general, I would agree the deck wants 15 colored sources. I don't like having more than 3 karakas, as I've had more starting hands with 2 Karakas and a colorless land than I'd care to remember. And this is coming from someone still running 3x mangara. I do run a single cavern and like others have said it's not unfrequently set on T2 to Kor/artificer. I did pick up one brimaz but he hasn't really had time to prove himself but it's not hard to see the power he has. The Mirran crusader in my list may not have won me games by himself but it definitely does work in those BUG match ups. And poor spirit of the labyrinth, like most I was excited about the card and find it very lackluster. I do have 1 in the board but so far nothing spectacular has come out of it. I think it should be mentioned I only play online so I don't have to tune my deck to some local meta or anything.

I want to thank everyone who has posted in the thread, as I may not have got the deck without all the great and enthusiastic people here. I hope I can help others as you have helped me.

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Good points all around; welcome to the team!

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

I don't think Brimaz is a must-buy - it's okay to have, but not "OMG NEW STAPLE". To repeat my post in the Salvation thread:

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The more I play the Brimaz, the more clear it becomes that Crusader vs Brimaz is highly meta-dependent and that it isn't really possible to say "X is a better choice than Y - the end".

Crusader is better with equipment, Brimaz is better against mass removal.

Crusader sucks against red decks packing burn, Brimaz sucks against white deck with Karakas and SFM for Batterskull (they can still gain 4 life from the token each time).

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That said, I really like my current configuration of

2 Avenger
2 Mindcensor
2 Brimaz (could be 2 Crusaders if you prefer that)
4 Flickerwisp

Lots of flyers with some utility packed. I can now regularly put up 3-1 results with this list in the MODO daily events (even though I yet have to get a 4-0 with D&T because the random gods love to screw with me). I think other configurations with 4 Avengers 4 Flickerwisp (like the SCG list from last weekend) are decent as well, but I like the Mindcensor disruption and multiple Avengers can be rather slow/dead without Vial/a second white source. Personal preference, I guess.

And I think 4 Karakas is too many since we can't filter them. Too often for my liking I draw two early, making mana screws much more likely.

That is my current configuration too. I feel really strongly about my maindeck but my sideboard seems to be the area giving me the most trouble. It's hard to justify what to include and what not to include.

My current Sideboard is:
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Celestial Flare
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Manriki-Gusari
(2 empty slots)

I have liked these 13 in these numbers thus far but I am trying to figure out what to put in the last two slots. I have it down to 6 cards:
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence (I like this new tech, haven't tried it yet)
1 Ratchet Bomb (delver, tokens, goblins, elves)
2 Cataclysm (lands, miracles)

Can anyone offer some help in cutting to only 2 of these?

All of those options are pretty good. What does your meta look like, so we can narrow it down?

Plenty of varied combo (Doomsday, High Tide, Helm Enchantress, etc), Many different Stoneforge Decks (BW or Esper mostly) and various decks that run life from the loam (Depths and punishing fire).

Cataclysm is pretty much for miracles and lands decks but the loam decks seem to lock me out of the game before I can get it off so I am thinking about removing that completely.

I really like Ratchet Bomb since it kind of answers everything by itself, especially problem tokens/problem 1 CMC permanents (mostly goblins and elves, but admittedly I have more of the former than the latter around).

Linvala is honestly because I love that card and would love to jam it anywhere. I don't know if it actually does anything good but I'm totally willing to try it out.

I like either of the swords for a couple reasons.
SoLaS gets me ahead when racing in a lot of match ups and makes a lot of my threats near unkillable (5 power creatures who can't be decayed or swords'd). It's also another constant stream of card advantage against black decks running a lot of discard.
SoFaF is amazing in that it lets me cast stuff, get in some damage, disrupt combo and control while being able to untap to use my ports to control their mana. Being able to walk past goyfs is good enough to consider Mirran Crusader so if I can make anything a Mirran Crusader it might be good enough to run because I currently have cut him from my MB.

I hope that helps a little.

I am currently leaning mostly on Sword of Light and Shadow to have a more relevant sword against non-blue decks and ratchet bomb as another tutorable answer to everything.

Linvala is cool and feast and famine is too but I think with the amount of fliers I main deck the protection from green is less important to being immune to swords to plowshares.

How necessary is Aven Mindcensor now? I realize how powerful it can be as a vial in effect and whatnot but I want to play around with the slots a bit. I am new to the deck but due to selling almost my entire collection, D&T is about to be my only Tier1 option now.

am currently rocking the following list:

4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Mangara of Corondor
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos

4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte

10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Karakas

Board:
3 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Disenchant
2 Celestial Flare

Am possibly thinking about dropping mango and adding another plains and mirrian crusader. Please share thoughts on list.

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Originally Posted by lambert101

am currently rocking the following list:

4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Mangara of Corondor
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos

4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte

10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Karakas

Board:
3 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Disenchant
2 Celestial Flare

Am possibly thinking about dropping mango and adding another plains and mirrian crusader. Please share thoughts on list.

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I'd turn the disenchants into 1 Relic Warder and 1 Needle.

Maybe drop an avenger/crusader for another plains? A singleton of most cards feels pointless in this deck.

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

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Originally Posted by Madmankevinx

How necessary is Aven Mindcensor now? I realize how powerful it can be as a vial in effect and whatnot but I want to play around with the slots a bit. I am new to the deck but due to selling almost my entire collection, D&T is about to be my only Tier1 option now.

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I'm torn about Mindcensor. Sometimes it's awesome, but more often than not, it's either too slow and/or my opponent still finds what he needs in his top 4 cards anway. :rolleyes:

For now, I'm going to drop it and test the following configuration:

3 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Mirran Crusader

Brimaz and Crusader fill similiar roles, but the King of Oreos fails to impress me in a white-heavy meta as MODO since he sucks against opposing copies of Karakas and Batterskull. I run 1 copy for now since he's still good in certain match-ups, especially those packing red.

@lambert101: I agree with Barbed Blightning - you should run Pithing Needle. I dropped it to test some other SB cards and ran into 3x Miracles today (after dodging it for ages - karma's a bitch) where I really missed it.

One of those RiPs should be Grafdigger's Cage. Slows Elves down and comes down a full turn faster against Dredge/Reanimator which can be crucial at times. It also dodges Cabal Therapies for RiP.

I think you should drop an O-Ring for an E-Tutor since it grants you more flexibility without lowering your answer density where you really need O-Ring.

You should also run a 15th white source, especially with 4 Karakas. I'm also not really a fan of the complete lack of Flickerwisp.

Yeah, zero Flickerwisp is kinda bad. I'd cut 2 crusaders and an avenger for three of them. And most decks run 23 lands and 15 white sources. Eiganjo Castle goes a long way in protecting your Brimaz, as well as Thalia, so I'd consider cutting a Karakas for it since 4 of those seems high. I might even shave the last crusader for another land since him and Brimaz kinda serve the same purpose, yet Brimaz does it better.

Also, I think Spirit of the Labyrinth is good, but requires an extensive revision of the decklist, possibly even a new archetype. The problem with Spirit of the Labyrinth going into an existing D&T shell is that it's one step down an almost completely different road. Rather than looking to shut down the opponent's ability to cast stuff, SotL pushes you towards removing the opponent's ability to draw anything of relevance, as well as the occasional Brainstorm blowout. The cards I feel go best with SotL in this kind of strategy are Aven Mindcensor, Leonin Arbiter, and Mother of Runes. Mom shuts down their first removal spell every turn. Mindcensor does the obvious, and Arbiter is just obnoxious. I also feel like a Discard suite goes well with this level of disruption in card quality. Going W/B gives you access to Liliana of the Veil, Thoughtseize (as well as Duress and IoK), Zealous Persecution, Dark Confidant, and soon to be Waste Not. I just don't know if going white with a discard deck is even worth it, since it seems to do well enough as a monocolor deck. So basically, SotL is good, but not in D&T, but I think it might be a decent idea to figure out a list where it shines, because it could pay decent dividends.

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Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning

I'd turn the disenchants into 1 Relic Warder and 1 Needle.

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So this is touching on an issue I've been having lately. I've had room for 2 sideboard artifact/enchantment hate pieces and have been running a 1/1 split of Relic-Warder and Disenchant. Thing is, I still can't figure out which is better, or if there is even a difference.

Against burn they land Ensnaring Bridge and if I have a LRW to answer it they just point the next piece of burn at it. This happened and it made me want a non-creature (permanent) answer.

However vs Omnitell, I was able to "get" their dream halls with relic warder off a vial activation in response to an Intuition. So there the creature aspect was a total boon.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by MrShine

So this is touching on an issue I've been having lately. I've had room for 2 sideboard artifact/enchantment hate pieces and have been running a 1/1 split of Relic-Warder and Disenchant. Thing is, I still can't figure out which is better, or if there is even a difference.

Against burn they land Ensnaring Bridge and if I have a LRW to answer it they just point the next piece of burn at it. This happened and it made me want a non-creature (permanent) answer.

However vs Omnitell, I was able to "get" their dream halls with relic warder off a vial activation in response to an Intuition. So there the creature aspect was a total boon.

Thoughts?

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No offense, but burn is hardly prevalent enough to warrant argumentation against LRW.

I see it like this: we're a creature deck. Effects on legs are ideal. They synergize with vial, they synergize with Mom. Not to mention Flickerwisp shenanigans.

While disenchant is a classic solution, LRW is more practical-- and can cost you no mana with vial, freeing up your ports.

It's up to you, but with a manriki gusari in the board, I find a miser's LRW will suffice

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

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Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning

No offense, but burn is hardly prevalent enough to warrant argumentation against LRW.

I see it like this: we're a creature deck. Effects on legs are ideal. They synergize with vial, they synergize with Mom. Not to mention Flickerwisp shenanigans.

While disenchant is a classic solution, LRW is more practical-- and can cost you no mana with vial, freeing up your ports.

It's up to you, but with a manriki gusari in the board, I find a miser's LRW will suffice

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

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The part I put in Bold is what I think is most important.

Don't get me wrong, I agree completely that the synergy of the creature is definitely the big allure, and is why I'm playing it. I'm just unhappy with how susceptible LRW is to removal; UWR runs tons - its not just Burn - so when I absolutely NEED to clear that Batterskull or Jitte or whatever off the table, LRW is a lot of the time only a soft answer.

Not really sure what I'm trying to figure out by discussing this, just thought I'd bring it up. Point being is that I think running Disenchant has its own merits, and depending on the meta you might be expecting could be a better solution in the end. For now I'm going to keep going with my 1/1 split for lack of any better options :P

Thanks for your opinions though!

EDIT - this is also one of the reasons I'm in support of Mangara lately, especially if you're running Brimaz. Vial @ 3 + Karakas is deadly with the two of them floating around in the deck. More permanent answers to random shit is never bad.

Played in a local tonight where about 15 people showed. Meta game was rather interesting, a few brews and a lot of fringe decks, also noticed grixis delver, infect stompy, miracles, g/w maverick, burn, u/r delver, and scapeshift nic fit. List i ran was

23 Lands

4 wastelands
4 ports
3 karakas
10 plains
1 cavern of souls
1 horizon canopy

creatures

4 mom
4 stoneforge
4 thalia
4 revoker
3 flickerwisp
3 serra avenger
2 brimaz
1 aven mindcensor
1 mangara

instants/equipment

1 jitte
1 fire/ice
1 batterskull
4 swords to plowshares

sideboard

2 enlightened tutor
1 grafdiggers cage
1 relic
2 rest in peace
1 meekstone
1 ratchet bomb
2 cataclysm
2 wilt leaf liege
1 oblivion ring
2 ethersworn cannonist

Round One, 1-2: Played against probably the best player in the room who was on miracles. A good friend of mine and we both have tested this matchup several times so know its gonne be a grind. I win game one as usual since im faored preboard, he can't find enough termini and i eventually get their with a batterskull equipped with a a sword of fire/ice. Game two he wear/tears my ial and i die to angel tokens and game three he stabilizes at 3 life and finds every answer he needs to kill me with angel tokens. Game three i probably could have one had i kept aether vial on two instead of three, i got greedy with a flickerwisp... but the struggles i have postboard with miracles remain lol. any and all help here is appreciated.

Round Two, 2-0: I'm playing against someone i've only seen around the shop a few times, and he's on some black/red brew which i've never seen. Game one I open with a hand containing 3 lands, vial, mom, revoker, jitte. I keep it, he turn one thoughtseizes me and for some reason takes the jitte... i thank god he does and play vial on my turn after drawing a stoneforge mystic. His turn he draws plays a fetch, fetches then plays deathrite then passes. My turn i tick the vial up to one, draw a land and play the revoker naming top. On his turn he jams a lilliana by activating deathrite and forces me to sac a creature. I think about it long and hard and figure he really wants his top active so i activate the vial and drop in a mom and sac the mother of runes. He frowns and passes. On my turn i draw the sword of fire/ice, kill his lilliana.... flash stoneforge in on his turn and he procedes to scoop to a batterskull. Game two brought in most of the cards i reserve for jund just to be safe, my opening hand is swords, jitte, mom, liege, cataclysm, plains, cavern. He turn ones thoughtseizes me again, takes my jitte. I draw a stoneforge then play it going to get sword of fire ice. He plays deathrite passes... then does nothing fthe rest of the games and slowly dies to a stonefogre equiped with the sword.

Round Three, 2-0: I'm playing against thopter combo. Game one i went turn one aether vial, turn two revoker on thopter. Turn three mom and thalia, flashing stoneforge in on his turn and getting batterskull. He simpyl could do nothing. Game two was a lot more difficult, as he was about to stabilize at 2 life and start thoptering me... thankfully thalia had slowed the combo down long enough and i top decked a rest in peace and he scooped.

Round 4, 2-0: Playing against G/W maverick against the second best player in the room in my opinion. Essentially almost a mirror match, our decks function similarly and we both know it's going to be grindy. Game one lasts 35 mins and i eventually am able to get both a serra avenger, and flickerwisp equipped with a sword of fire/ice and jitte and top deck a revoker naming her mother of runes, preventing her scryb ranger shenanigans. Game two I'm able to kill her on turn one of extra turns.

overall happy with the deck, the miracles match-up is odd, as post-board it just feels awful for me. def got a free win against some decks tonight which felt good, being able to just revoke a win condition and trick around with aether vial stole me some games.

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Originally Posted by raikenxy

Played in a local tonight where about 15 people showed. Meta game was rather interesting, a few brews and a lot of fringe decks, also noticed grixis delver, infect stompy, miracles, g/w maverick, burn, u/r delver, and scapeshift nic fit. List i ran was

23 Lands

4 wastelands
4 ports
3 karakas
10 plains
1 cavern of souls
1 horizon canopy

creatures

4 mom
4 stoneforge
4 thalia
4 revoker
3 flickerwisp
3 serra avenger
2 brimaz
1 aven mindcensor
1 mangara

instants/equipment

1 jitte
1 fire/ice
1 batterskull
4 swords to plowshares

sideboard

2 enlightened tutor
1 grafdiggers cage
1 relic
2 rest in peace
1 meekstone
1 ratchet bomb
2 cataclysm
2 wilt leaf liege
1 oblivion ring
2 ethersworn cannonist

Round One, 1-2: Played against probably the best player in the room who was on miracles. A good friend of mine and we both have tested this matchup several times so know its gonne be a grind. I win game one as usual since im faored preboard, he can't find enough termini and i eventually get their with a batterskull equipped with a a sword of fire/ice. Game two he wear/tears my ial and i die to angel tokens and game three he stabilizes at 3 life and finds every answer he needs to kill me with angel tokens. Game three i probably could have one had i kept aether vial on two instead of three, i got greedy with a flickerwisp... but the struggles i have postboard with miracles remain lol. any and all help here is appreciated.

Round Two, 2-0: I'm playing against someone i've only seen around the shop a few times, and he's on some black/red brew which i've never seen. Game one I open with a hand containing 3 lands, vial, mom, revoker, jitte. I keep it, he turn one thoughtseizes me and for some reason takes the jitte... i thank god he does and play vial on my turn after drawing a stoneforge mystic. His turn he draws plays a fetch, fetches then plays deathrite then passes. My turn i tick the vial up to one, draw a land and play the revoker naming top. On his turn he jams a lilliana by activating deathrite and forces me to sac a creature. I think about it long and hard and figure he really wants his top active so i activate the vial and drop in a mom and sac the mother of runes. He frowns and passes. On my turn i draw the sword of fire/ice, kill his lilliana.... flash stoneforge in on his turn and he procedes to scoop to a batterskull. Game two brought in most of the cards i reserve for jund just to be safe, my opening hand is swords, jitte, mom, liege, cataclysm, plains, cavern. He turn ones thoughtseizes me again, takes my jitte. I draw a stoneforge then play it going to get sword of fire ice. He plays deathrite passes... then does nothing fthe rest of the games and slowly dies to a stonefogre equiped with the sword.

Round Three, 2-0: I'm playing against thopter combo. Game one i went turn one aether vial, turn two revoker on thopter. Turn three mom and thalia, flashing stoneforge in on his turn and getting batterskull. He simpyl could do nothing. Game two was a lot more difficult, as he was about to stabilize at 2 life and start thoptering me... thankfully thalia had slowed the combo down long enough and i top decked a rest in peace and he scooped.

Round 4, 2-0: Playing against G/W maverick against the second best player in the room in my opinion. Essentially almost a mirror match, our decks function similarly and we both know it's going to be grindy. Game one lasts 35 mins and i eventually am able to get both a serra avenger, and flickerwisp equipped with a sword of fire/ice and jitte and top deck a revoker naming her mother of runes, preventing her scryb ranger shenanigans. Game two I'm able to kill her on turn one of extra turns.

overall happy with the deck, the miracles match-up is odd, as post-board it just feels awful for me. def got a free win against some decks tonight which felt good, being able to just revoke a win condition and trick around with aether vial stole me some games.

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Pithing needle helps the miracles MU an inordinate amount. A good starting point, imo, is to remove 4 stp, Jitte and a mindcensor for 2 e tutor, 1 bomb, 1 needle and 2 cataclysm. Past that, it's your call; I like Brimaz here because he can blow the game apart on his own and is easy to save with Karakas.

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Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning

Pithing needle helps the miracles MU an inordinate amount. A good starting point, imo, is to remove 4 stp, Jitte and a mindcensor for 2 e tutor, 1 bomb, 1 needle and 2 cataclysm. Past that, it's your call; I like Brimaz here because he can blow the game apart on his own and is easy to save with Karakas.

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I like keeping in mindcensor in this matchup because of all the fetchlands, if they run E. tutor, etc.

Am I the only one that really loves Aven Mindcensor? I play 2 and I'm never disappointed in drawing one.

I haven't had much impact with my mindcensors. Removed them for brimaz and it has been good so far.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

Am I the only one that really loves Aven Mindcensor? I play 2 and I'm never disappointed in drawing one.

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While Mindcensor is occasionally nice for the blow-outs, it's imho too often too slow or irrelevant. Dying to -1/-1 effects doesn't really help, either. I would rather play cards with consistent high impact.

I'm currently running

4 Flickerwisp
3 Serra Avenger
3 Mirran Crusader

in the creature flexspots and I'm rather pleased with it. Swaping out one Crusader for a 4th Avenger is up to personal preference, but I like how Crusader is immune to Abrupt Decay (BUG Delver is a thing) and how he hits like a truck with equipment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

Am I the only one that really loves Aven Mindcensor? I play 2 and I'm never disappointed in drawing one.

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They're awesome. Consistently winning me games against 12Post. Also random fetchland-screwing feels so good. Yo elf player, wanna fetch that Hoof to stomp my head? No way, here, have some censorship!

Hey guys, i'll be playing a 2k champ in a few weeks and i thought you guys could help me.here is my list:


// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
2 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
3 [LG] Karakas
9 [UNH] Plains
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
1 [CHK] Eiganjo Castle

// Creatures
4 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
4 [EVE] Flickerwisp
4 [CMD] Mother of Runes
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
2 [BNG] Brimaz, King of Oreskos

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
1 [NPH] Batterskull
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 2 [SHM] Wilt-Leaf Liege
SB: 1 [SOK] Manriki-Gusari
SB: 2 [M14] Celestial Flare
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 1 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle

I'm not sure about the second O-ring, the flares(they've been performing ok) and the ratchet bomb.
is there anything i should change?(i don't like 2 tutors in my field, there is a lost of Jund)

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Originally Posted by Oreia

Hey guys, i'll be playing a 2k champ in a few weeks and i thought you guys could help me.here is my list:

// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
2 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
3 [LG] Karakas
9 [UNH] Plains
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
1 [CHK] Eiganjo Castle

// Creatures
4 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
4 [EVE] Flickerwisp
4 [CMD] Mother of Runes
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
2 [BNG] Brimaz, King of Oreskos

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
1 [NPH] Batterskull
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 2 [SHM] Wilt-Leaf Liege
SB: 1 [SOK] Manriki-Gusari
SB: 2 [M14] Celestial Flare
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 1 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle

I'm not sure about the second O-ring, the flares(they've been performing ok) and the ratchet bomb.
is there anything i should change?(i don't like 2 tutors in my field, there is a lost of Jund)

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I really like Ratchet Bomb as a 2-of in my SB, I feel it can be so powerful sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

I really like Ratchet Bomb as a 2-of in my SB, I feel it can be so powerful sometimes.

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I've tried it out, and I'm not exactly sure how this is supposed to work in a deck full of 1, 2 and 3 mana permanents that want to stay on the board as long as possible. What I see is the use, similar to Explosives, vs Tokens, be it from Bridge from Below, Empty the Warrens, or Entreat the Angels... and I guess it hits flipped delvers too. Its got value vs Elves as you only have to tick it up once, but am I going in on that plan when it takes out potentially both my Vial and Grafdigger's Cage?

What am I missing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

I really like Ratchet Bomb as a 2-of in my SB, I feel it can be so powerful sometimes.

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Ans what would you remove?
My field is something like this: Reanimator, UWR Delver , Canadian ********, BUG(delver and shardless) , DnT , Storm and Jund

I run a single copy as E-Tutor target, mainly as card vs. Elves and against tokens, although it also comes handy vs TNN and opposing Ensnaring Bridges.

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Originally Posted by Barook

I run a single copy as E-Tutor target, mainly as card vs. Elves and against tokens, although it also comes handy vs TNN and opposing Ensnaring Bridges.

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I run two, with two E-Tutors. I'm always guaranteed an answer that way.

Anybody heading to the SCG: Seattle in Tacoma?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

I run two, with two E-Tutors. I'm always guaranteed an answer that way.

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I would probably run two if I had like 20 SB slots, but place in the sideboard is absolute premium.

My current SB looks like this:

2 E-Tutor (needed for consistency)
1 Grafdigger's Cage (T1 GY hate shouldn't be underestimated, also dodges Cabal Therapy, can slow down Elves)
2 Rest In Piece (prime GY hate)
1 Pithing Needle (Miracles is big on Modo right now, also applications in lots of other match-ups)
1 Manriki-Gusari (against every SFM deck)
1 Ratchet Bomb (tokens, Elves, Ensnaring Bridge, maybe TNN)
2 Canonists (Elves, Storm, etc)
1 O-Ring (tutorable removal, S&T hate, probably the most cuttable)
2 Cataclysm (again, Miracles, and other permanent-heavy decks)
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege (BUG Delver and Shardless are a good chunk of the Modo meta)

Since there are so many Anti-TNN decks in the current Modo meta, TNN is one of my lesser concerns, otherwise I would pack 2 Flares.

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Originally Posted by SevenInTheQueue

Anybody heading to the SCG: Seattle in Tacoma?

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Indeed I will.

Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barook

1 Grafdigger's Cage (T1 GY hate shouldn't be underestimated, also dodges Cabal Therapy, can slow down Elves)
2 Cataclysm (again, Miracles, and other permanent-heavy decks)

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Our sideboards are exactly the same except instead of a cage I run 1x Leonin Relic-Warder and 2x Celestial Flare.

The only reason I run LR-W over Cage or a 3rd GY hate card is because I have been running into a lot of permanent based combo and SFM lately, and he can be an absolute blow out vialed in against painter or the helm/RiP combo. Also, I have seen next to no dredge, reanimator, etc so packing the 3rd piece seems sub optimal. Does you (or anyone) think we *NEED* 3 pieces of GY hate in the board or can 2 tutor, 2 RiP do the job?

I like the idea of putting in either 2x of Cataclysm or 2x of Celestial Flare but we probably do not have room for both. Have you run both and do you have a preference? I might just have a lack of serious testing with Cataclysm and am really afraid of TNN but both of them seem pretty narrow as far as sideboard slots go. Which match ups are both really good in so I can weigh which 2 I should use?

Flare: Delver decks, TNN decks (any "protect the queen" strategy), Reanimator, Lands, Sneak and Show.
Cataclysm: Miracles, any strategy that involves a lot of permanents in play (I don't know specifically what else, elves?).

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Originally Posted by Rogan

Our sideboards are exactly the same except instead of a cage I run 1x Leonin Relic-Warder and 2x Celestial Flare.

The only reason I run LR-W over Cage or a 3rd GY hate card is because I have been running into a lot of permanent based combo and SFM lately, and he can be an absolute blow out vialed in against painter or the helm/RiP combo. Also, I have seen next to no dredge, reanimator, etc so packing the 3rd piece seems sub optimal. Does you (or anyone) think we *NEED* 3 pieces of GY hate in the board or can 2 tutor, 2 RiP do the job?

I like the idea of putting in either 2x of Cataclysm or 2x of Celestial Flare but we probably do not have room for both. Have you run both and do you have a preference? I might just have a lack of serious testing with Cataclysm and am really afraid of TNN but both of them seem pretty narrow as far as sideboard slots go. Which match ups are both really good in so I can weigh which 2 I should use?

Flare: Delver decks, TNN decks (any "protect the queen" strategy), Reanimator, Lands, Sneak and Show.
Cataclysm: Miracles, any strategy that involves a lot of permanents in play (I don't know specifically what else, elves?).

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as far as needing 3 pieces of graveyard hate, im not sure. however i've always looked at my three grave hate pieces being rip and relic of progenitus. i've always viewed grafdiggers cage as being my main hoser against elves alongside ethersworn cannonist. The fact it also stops punishing fire is a side bonus as well as shutting down dredge turn one.

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Originally Posted by raikenxy

as far as needing 3 pieces of graveyard hate, im not sure. however i've always looked at my three grave hate pieces being rip and relic of progenitus. i've always viewed grafdiggers cage as being my main hoser against elves alongside ethersworn cannonist. The fact it also stops punishing fire is a side bonus as well as shutting down dredge turn one.

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Does Punishing Fire's ability constitute it as being cast? I didn't know cage stopped that.

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Originally Posted by Rogan

Does Punishing Fire's ability constitute it as being cast? I didn't know cage stopped that.

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wow, i have no idea why i wrote that lol. it certainly doesn't stop punishing fire in any way shape or form lol. Brain crapped out on me there i apologize.