[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

@ Dark Ritual :

You're probably right for the grave hate. I could just expect to dodge Ichorid.

For K. Grip, it's not just CB-Top. It's the best possible answer against Batterskull, if it ever resolve, and is a useful tool against random decks packing enchantments or Affinity.

I could see myself going to 3 Pyroblast, but not below that. It has too many useful applications, and it's insanely mana efficient.

Let's say we remove 1 Pyroblast and 2 grave hate from my SB, what do we add? Probably a 3rd Submerge, a 3rd combo hate (like 1 Pierce, 2 Flusterstorm), and 1 additional removal?

What would you suggest?

Against Batterskulls, I think Ancient Grudge is better?

Not really. They pretty much never play two of them, and late game, it's easy for them to play aroung Grudge (i.e. keep a counter + 3 mana open). When I played UW StoneBlade, I won some games against NO-RUG only because I was able to counter Grudge and leave mana open. If he had Grips instead, I would just have died. Also, if UW Stone-Blade becomes CB-Top Blade, they'll easily counter your Grudges with CB.

This is my current list, so far I didnt need Dismember and was ok with Fire/Ice

4 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fire // Ice
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Mountain
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
SB: 3 Submerge
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 Insectile Aberration
SB: 2 Firespout

After a lot of testing, I can safely say that Delver of Secrets (+ Lavamancer) is the real deal. Goodbye geese.

@keys: would you mind sharing your list? I'd love to see it.
@Humphreys: you've got 4 Insectile Aberration in the sb. I suppose this might be an error. ??
/edit: ok, I see what you did there....lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Julian23

@keys: would you mind sharing your list? I'd love to see it.
@Humphreys: you've got 4 Insectile Aberration in the sb. I suppose this might be an error. ??
/edit: ok, I see what you did there....lol.

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My list is identical to the one Goobafish posted on the last page, except I've been playing a basic Mountain and Island, and I have a 7th fetchland instead of the Preordain. I am also trying to squeeze in a Clique or two. I currently have one in the place of a Dismember.

My board is:
2 Spell Pierce
3 REB
3 Submerge
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Firespout
1 Dismember

Why did u choose to play the 2 basic lands? Isnt fire/ice missed at all? also your board isnt 15.

Why do you play the configuration Snapcaster, Delver and Lavamancer?
Really, ich can´t understand your choice.
SNapcaster Mage and Delver are playable, its no question, but you have to build a Deck round about them. They got no shroud and if your opponent has a creature on the Battlefield you can´t raise the creatures. Your opponent also gets information about your next draw and play his Spells around your counters. I think its very bad!!! Your current creatures got no Shroud and EACH Removal will beat them. Your list is absolutely far away from Canadian Treshhold. And if Caplan really is on board here, he would share a lot of punches! I mean, why do you think that snapcaster and delver are better than Goyf and Mongoose? There is no reason! ;) My current list is -3 Misstep and I´m testing 1 Dismember main and 2 Spell Pierce. I think our German Meta is walking into a Sucky Kombo Meta even with High Tide and some other Versions with Tendrils Kill and Past in Flames and thats the reason why I´m playing 2 Pierce MD. You also got more Sideboardslots to make other MU better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Waikiki

Why did u choose to play the 2 basic lands? Isnt fire/ice missed at all? also your board isnt 15.

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I'll answer the second question first: active Lavamancer is just better than Fire//Ice. The blue count is high enough with Delver replacing Mongoose, and you don't have to worry about eating up Threshold.

There are a ton of Waste-centric strategies right now between Esper, Team America, Merfolk, Aggro Loam, and Goblins (again). The basic Island is awesome to fetch out turn one if you're on 1 land with Ponder, play turn one Delver, or anytime you don't have Stifle backup. The Mountain is essential if you want to reliably activate Lavamancer throughout the course of a long game, as well as support a red-heavy SB.

Green is now a tertiary color, and since Goyf doesn't usually get casted until turn 3 or later and his effectiveness isn't hindered by a wasteland, I chose not to include a basic Forest. The only reason I would want one is as a preemptive measure against Blood Moon, so I can cast Krosan Grip, but that seems too small of a case to me. At least we have burn for Magus. I haven't had any color screw problems with this configuration so far, and I am 99% sure this is the way to go forward with Delver in the deck.

My mistake on the SB count. There should be 3 Submerge. It's constantly changing and very meta dependent anyway.

With only 4 Goyfs as green cards, I could see going 18 lands : 4 Volcanic, 3 Tropical, 6 Fetches, 4 Wastes and 1 Island. I don't think Mountain is necessary, since Blood Moon effects will give you enough red for a lifetime. Wasteland is a concern, but I doubt that the additional security of a second basic will outclass the inconvenience of drawing a Mountain+Wasteland hand. At least, the blue basic gives you ways to find your other colors via cantrips.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seb

With only 4 Goyfs as green cards, I could see going 18 lands : 4 Volcanic, 3 Tropical, 6 Fetches, 4 Wastes and 1 Island. I don't think Mountain is necessary, since Blood Moon effects will give you enough red for a lifetime. Wasteland is a concern, but I doubt that the additional security of a second basic will outclass the inconvenience of drawing a Mountain+Wasteland hand. At least, the blue basic gives you ways to find your other colors via cantrips.

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Right. I'm not terribly concerned about Blood Moon. The problem is getting your Volcanic wasted right after casting Lavamancer. Without the basic Mountain, he is too fragile against Merfolk and Goblins-- two matchups where you really want him.

Mountain + Wasteland, or Mountain only hands are pretty rare, and I'm willing to take that risk.

Are you on 18 or 19 lands?

EDIT : Yes you are, saw your earlier post. That solves the problem of the basic mountain. Maybe that 18 is greedy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seb

Are you on 18 or 19 lands?

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Currently 19 with 8 cantrips. 7th fetch could be another cantrip, but I like erring on the side of additional lands.

4 Tarn
3 blue fetch
3 Volc
3 Trop
1 Island
1 Mountain

Ok, after testing a bit with Delver of Secrets I can say that my initial impressions were wrong. He fits the tempo archetype perfectly and perhaps could push Tempo Thresh variant to next evolution step. I'm mainly talking about straight U/R version replacing U/G/x.

Main advantages with playing only 2 colors are not only being immune to wasteland plan, but getting access to cards like blood moon/magus of the moon (which were previously good against the deck) and something like plain old school Counterspell while at the same time not loosing any raw attacking power thanks to Delver of Secrets.

Quick list:

4 Wasteland
4 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
2 Island
4 Scalding Tarn

2 Vendilion Clique
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Counterspell
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fire // Ice

Snapcaster Mage is cute and everything, but his mana cost is usually at least 3cc, bringing back bolt/counterspell at most (and usually failing at that due to opponents dazes), while having no evasion. Every other creature in deck has either flying or can deal direct damage over several turns.

My main worry now is if this is the correct thread for this tempo variant. This isn't thresh anymore, that's for sure - but a very consistent tempo deck that can have some very explosive draws (like transformed delver into another followed by countermagic). Should someone start a new thread?

Goyf is such a good clock when backed up by disruption, I don't think I would cut him in this style of deck. However, if you add a couple Trinket Mages and a Phyrexian Dreadnought to that list, it would resemble AJ Sacher's U/R tempo deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keys

Goyf is such a good clock when backed up by disruption, I don't think I would cut him in this style of deck.

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+1
Anyway,I don´t think that is the best option to play the 2 basics lands in this deck.I know that lavamancer needs R each turn,but the basic mountain is so horrible. My current list is:

3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Spell Snare
4 Ponder
2 Dismember
+1 Slot

1 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

I don´t know what to play,if the preordain or the third copy of dismember.Probably i will play the dismember because now I only play 3 submerge in SB and I like to have some outs to kill KotR,RWM and goyfs in the MD.I play only 3 tropical because now i play only goyfs and one or two cards in SB and a fetch more for the lavamancer. My SB:

1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tormod´s Crypt
3 Spell Pierce
3 Submerge
+1 Slot

At first,this slot were a pyroclasm,but know playing delver+lavamancer I think that it´s not the best option.Opinions for this slot???

Fire/Ice is an option that is still solid against tribal. Also, Firespout can be a replacement, since at least, it will not kill your Delver (most of the times, you Spout the ground).

Pyroclasm is indeed terrible with the current configuration.

This deck is brutal.

Delver of Secrets is such an awsome creature that can deliver damage and build a fast clock like a boss. Paired up with Goyfs and Grim Lavamancers, this deck has the power to become top tier in the post-MMS metagame. Innistrad gave the deck what it was lacking back on the Moongoose ages, raw power and speed.

Dritzz list seems pretty good, but I'd switch those Crypts with Surgical Extraction. Dismember is gold and Fire/Ice isn't optimal.

???!
Just draw blue mana from your trops...

Not sure Firespout is needed either way. What do you want it against? Zoo and Maverick? I've just using Submerge/Mind Hardnees and it's been working fine, especially with dismember in maindeck.