Miracle Control

Hi guys

This is my current iteration of the Helm list. Rest in Peace maindeck is pretty good and has been treating me better than Snapcaster.

I need your help in trimming the 61st card from my maindeck.

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Spell Pierce
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Counterspell
3 Counterbalance
3 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Detention Sphere
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Force of Will
3 Terminus
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas

Sideboard
1 Blood Moon
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Counterbalance
2 Disenchant
2 Spell Pierce
1 Rest in Peace
1 Moat
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict

I'd cut one counterspell.

I'd be more inclined to cut the two Spell Pierce and add the second Enlightened Tutor. Being able to find Top fast seems important, especially for the 22 land and no Ponders build.

I'd leave the two Pierce in the board if your meta has more UW, Pox, or Dredge... but Flusterstorm is a better SB choice if there is a lot of non-Dredge combo.

Speaking of Dredge, how do you feel like the MU is just rawdogging the RiP + E. Tutor MD with no help from the SB? My experience has been fine so far, but some of their hands leave me leaning heavily on FoW and I find myself missing Surgical for additional t0-t1 interaction.

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Originally Posted by Dzra

I'd be more inclined to cut the two Spell Pierce and add the second Enlightened Tutor. Being able to find Top fast seems important, especially for the 22 land and no Ponders build.

I'd leave the two Pierce in the board if your meta has more UW, Pox, or Dredge... but Flusterstorm is a better SB choice if there is a lot of non-Dredge combo.

Speaking of Dredge, how do you feel like the MU is just rawdogging the RiP + E. Tutor MD with no help from the SB? My experience has been fine so far, but some of their hands leave me leaning heavily on FoW and I find myself missing Surgical for additional t0-t1 interaction.

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If anything I think another pierce needs to find its way in somehow. Lili, discard, jace, and combo is everywhere now and spell pierce is the best card to get you into the late game in a healthy position. Counterspell is only good late game when you have stabalized so one is enough. I much rather cut either a clique or rip for the second tutor
or even one force.

I played this deck twice now (Rest in Peace), I used to played old miracles last year (casters, mishras, 4CB) and there is one thing I do not like about the deck - it has no real plan. I thought that often I will eot Tutor for the kill but it doesen't work like that. You do not have many counters (jack version I played) and you are waiting with top for something; and it is not coming; you play Terminus or two Swords but you need to draw Jace. If your opponents threads are non-creature you are dead. I only Entreated only when I was winning anyway.
We dont have the strong play of playing 4 CB and threating to lock game very quickly like the old version had. Three Scasters could multiply your Pierces or Swords - I fell much more in control than now.
It was actually very frustrating to play this version.

Tom

That's because the rest in peace version plays more like old school vintage control where you just make sure your opponent can't win. For example, playing a rest in peace against rug kinda just makes there deck do nothing. Other examples are like playing blood moon against jund and bug or counterbalance top against combo. This isn't really a card advantage grindy deck like jund and it shouldn't be cause they just do that better but rather this is a pure control that just creates scenarios where an opponent can't win.

I was testing my deck this afternoon vs 12 post and I was demolished to death. "Predict" didn't work as expected also, too much dependency on SDT to be worth in the deck. How do you deal with this kind of deck? We are so slow that the opponent will always be able to cast an uncounterable Emrakul.

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Originally Posted by cschacal

I was testing my deck this afternoon vs 12 post and I was demolished to death. "Predict" didn't work as expected also, too much dependency on SDT to be worth in the deck. How do you deal with this kind of deck? We are so slow that the opponent will always be able to cast an uncounterable Emrakul.

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They pretty much have inevitable win against a slow control deck without Wastelands (recurrable, I'd add). Back to Basics or Blood Moon for Uwr are your best bet, obviously.

Yeah, I would deffo. include 3 Back to basics if you have 12 post.
By the way, useful against lot of other decks...

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Originally Posted by cschacal

I was testing my deck this afternoon vs 12 post and I was demolished to death. "Predict" didn't work as expected also, too much dependency on SDT to be worth in the deck. How do you deal with this kind of deck? We are so slow that the opponent will always be able to cast an uncounterable Emrakul.

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12POST is almost designed to crush this deck. Blood Moon is your friend.

Counterbalance/Top is actually pretty solid against 12post. At least a third of their deck is 1-drops designed to help them accelerate. Counterbalance and Terminus should be able to buy you enough time to resolve a Blood Moon. Just try not to let Primeval Titen resolve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cschacal

I was testing my deck this afternoon vs 12 post and I was demolished to death. "Predict" didn't work as expected also, too much dependency on SDT to be worth in the deck. How do you deal with this kind of deck? We are so slow that the opponent will always be able to cast an uncounterable Emrakul.

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This is an impossible matchup unless you have access to Humility or Blood Moon, since there's no way you can clock them before they find and ramp into an Eldrazi (barring some weird shit like turbo-Dust Bowl while they're slow to develop). Even if you do stick one of those pieces, watch out for a Repeal with mana floating (or a Venser to bounce Blood Moon). It's also another reason to consider bringing in Red Elemental Blasts if you have a ton of dead cards to begin with (the primary reason being Show and Tell).

Agreed on whoever suggested keeping Counterbalance. While their bombs don't cost 1, Sensei's Divining Top, Candelabra, Pithing Needle, Expedition Map, and especially Crop Rotation are very important to that deck.

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

This is an impossible matchup unless you have access to Humility or Blood Moon, since there's no way you can clock them before they find and ramp into an Eldrazi (barring some weird shit like turbo-Dust Bowl while they're slow to develop). Even if you do stick one of those pieces, watch out for a Repeal with mana floating (or a Venser to bounce Blood Moon). It's also another reason to consider bringing in Red Elemental Blasts if you have a ton of dead cards to begin with (the primary reason being Show and Tell).

Agreed on whoever suggested keeping Counterbalance. While their bombs don't cost 1, Sensei's Divining Top, Candelabra, Pithing Needle, Expedition Map, and especially Crop Rotation are very important to that deck.

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You can also consider running mindbreak traps out of the board, to exile the eldrazi instead.

Terminus anyone? Sure, they get their extra turn. For what?

Or you can attack their mana-base:

1) Vindicate (as suggested above) can do what Detention Sphere and the like can't - destroy lands. Repeatable with Snapcaster Mage. This might buy you the time you need.

2) Drop the Snapcasters for a package of Mishra's Factory / Wasteland / Crucible of Worlds / Humility along with E-Tutors.

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Originally Posted by Taurelin

Terminus anyone? Sure, they get their extra turn. For what?

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They run Eye of Ugin to fish for the mentioned Emrakul so, what do you expect will Happen with 20+ mana, Eye and an extra turn?

If you really want to defeat 12 Post in the SB games, you can. Miracle already has SB cards dedicated to Show and Tell, hence all the Show and Tell SB cards would apply.

Most 12 Post don't run counter, except the Flusterstorm from the SB. Just make sure you don't lose to their Flusterstorm, and play Bribery. As long as you don't wait too long, I'm pretty sure they cannot repeal Emrakul.

However, do you really want to spend SB slot on Bribery?

Deck Name: Punishing Miracle
Position: 6
Miracle Control

Takuya Takahashi

Creatures [3]
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants [18]
1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
3 Punishing Fire
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries [4]
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Terminus

Enchantments [4]
1 Detention Sphere
3 Counterbalance


Planeswalkers [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts [5]
1 Batterskull
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [23]
1 Karakas
1 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
2 Volcanic Island
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard:
2 Rest in Peace
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Humility
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Blood Moon
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pyroblast
1 Pithing Needle

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=75206

Seems legit!

As a player who pilots both decks in our gauntlet, I will have to say, even with Blood Moon, Back to Basics and/or Humility in the deck, 12-Post (aka Turbo Eldrazi) is an abysmal match-up for the traditional Miracles build.

The RIP-Helm build fares much better since you can assemble your combo just as fast, or even faster, than Turbo Eldrazi can assemble Cloudposts. Though they run Pithing Needle as an answer to that, you can still counter it.

What's really bad about the matchup is that Miracles can do very little to interact with their ramp. Turbo Eldrazi can smother Miracles with business spells while they ramp up naturally, and even then Miracles can lose through a hard-casted Eldrazi (namely, Emrakul).

Without CB, Miracles doesn't stand a chance of countering every single business spell. Blood Moon, while slowing them down tremendously, is not an end-all solution, as Repeal does wonders against it.

Our gauntlet generally considers the Miracles match-up a virtual bye when playing Turbo Eldrazi. Without the RIP-Helm combo, Turbo Eldrazi just rapes Miracles more often than not.

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Originally Posted by twndomn

If you really want to defeat 12 Post in the SB games, you can. Miracle already has SB cards dedicated to Show and Tell, hence all the Show and Tell SB cards would apply.

Most 12 Post don't run counter, except the Flusterstorm from the SB. Just make sure you don't lose to their Flusterstorm, and play Bribery. As long as you don't wait too long, I'm pretty sure they cannot repeal Emrakul.

However, do you really want to spend SB slot on Bribery?

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The deck I was playing against had lots of countermagic in the sideboard (blue blasts, mindbreak trap, flusterstorm...) sticking a Blood Moon can be a very difficult task. As Alphastryk said before this deck seems to be designed to beat miracles.

Back home in Decks to Beat!

Good for us.