It will always baffle me how gamers cannot spell "lose".Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
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It will always baffle me how gamers cannot spell "lose".Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
Yes, because that is how I spend my time on the MTG-forums. Spell checking all the words before I post so that I might not offend you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
This is the Esper Stonblade list I've been playing with lately, and likely playing at SCG Cincinnati. I'll just give a little rundown on some of the cards, especially the one-ofs.
// Lands 23
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland
// Creatures 8
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
// Instants 14
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
3 Force of Will
1 Intuition
1 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
// Sorceries 9
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate
1 Supreme Verdict
// Artifacts 3
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
// Planeswalkers 3
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard:
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 1 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Perish
SB: 3 Geist of Saint Traft
I have been extremely happy with it as of late. I've tested against Junk, Jund, most BUG variants, RUG Delver, and some other Tier decks (though I should probably play more against combo).
First and foremost, the pair of Wastelands have been all-stars for me, as it allows another angle of attack. Usually games 2 and 3, my opponent tries to play around Wastelands by fetching for basics, which can make for a pseudo-mind-trick / mana screw. I know of at least a couple games where they've fetched for basics, and a timely Vindicate puts them so far back that they can't catch up. On that note, the one-of Vindicate has been great. I know some people have been opting out of having it, but I couldn't imagine leaving home without it.
I definitely think 3 Lingering Souls / 1 Intuition is the right way to go, even in a Meta full of Deathrite Shamans. Intuition is especially great after sideboard; being able to grab 3 Surgical Extraction is amazing.
The miser Spell Pierce and Counterspell are really good, and again play more "mind-tricks" on your opponent, so they never really feel safe tapping out when I have U or UU open for Pierce and CS, respectively.
Supreme Verdict has pulled its weight for sure, especially against RUG, BUG, Jund, etc. (and if nothing else it gives me a blue card to pitch to Force).
As much as I'd like to fit the 4th Force in the MB, I wouldn't know what to cut, and I'm overall satisfied with it in the SB.
I used to play 1-2 Vendilion Clique (along with 3 Snapcasters), but I finally decided to cut it and I haven't looked back. It allows me to cut the Karakas as well. I might put them back in if Show and Tell decks become a little more popular, but I am still not overly satisfied with having a non-tutorable, Wastelandable Plains in my deck. The fourth Snapcaster has been much better so far.
For the Sideboard:
Most stuff is pretty basic. The Hydroblast I usually bring in against Jund, Goblins, Storm (usually if it's running Burning Wish). Disenchant has been good, with Sylvan Library being my favorite target to hit with it. The Geists have been good, though I'm still not sure what matchups exactly to bring them in against. Just any deck that plays StP? They're good against Miracles, the mirror-match, and most control matchups, but other than that I'm not real sure when to bring them in. Regarding the Sideboard, I would really like to play another Perish, but I wouldn't know what to cut.
Anyway, I'd appreciate any feedback you guys have, negative or positive. I was running Dark Confidants, but a few FoW and Jace flips, and I realized that they needed to go.
Thanks!
--
Jacob
Not a big fan of Wasteland in this deck here. While the deck can operate well with few lands, it can operate even better with more. Randomly screwing someone doesn' sound like it will work often, with only 2 Wastelands. Having an answer to manlands and Maze of Ith is nice though, but I wouldn't expect many Mazes in the next weeks. It's just too few Wastelands to cripple someone and the deck is not fast enough to take advantage of it.
Intuition might be too cute, but it also might be pretty good in all these grind mirrors that you will have to play.
Hydroblast in the sideboard sounds terrible. Definately exchange it with a card that does something, maybe Spell Pierce. Or the 2nd Perish that you want to play.
Geist is awesome. Whenever you feel like "counterspells and discard will probably suck, I need strong topdecks" board it in. Also board it in against any combo deck. Best clock you can get and FOW fodder is always welcome.
Well the Wastelands are obviously not mainly for trying to mana screw somebody. Being able to take out problem lands is just so good, along with the possibility of randomly screwing them. I was actually running 1 Dust Bowl before, but the Wastelands have been so much better, so for now I'll be keeping them in. I'll be testing more, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkle_stille
The Intuition is great. I'd definitely recommend testing it to see what you think for yourself.
I can see taking out the Hydroblast, though I do really like it against Bloodbraid Elf, goblins, sulfuric vortex (which destroys us), etc. I might try a spell Pierce, spell Snare, or a flusterstorm in that slot.
And alright, I'll try that with Geist. I just feel like I shouldn't board it in against any decks with a lot of creatures, as it becomes 4 damage for 3 mana at that point. Is this correct?
On a side note, has anyone been having trouble with Jund? I don't get completely blown out, but a turn 1 thoughseize, turn 2 Hymn, followed by a threat is really hard to deal with, and really common in a deck that plays 4 Thoughtseize and 2-4 Hymns.
Thanks for the input!
thra1l, most lists I've seen so far running that many 1 ofs like Vindacte, Verdict in the main tend to also stick a Ponder there to increase their chances of finding that one answer. I'm also running with 2 Wastelands, thus 23 lands, so it doesn't leave me with enough space to squeeze both the 1 ofs and a Ponder. How's that working out for you without the additional cantrip?
Main Deck:
Regarding Wasteland:
Wasteland is needed to win against Maze of Ith (though this card has become a lot rarer).
More importantly, it is not used as a tempo play or to screw people. It is very powerful to just cut down mana for a single turn so you can ignore certain hand cards in opponents hand. For example, you waste the single red untapped mana post board to play around REB before resolving Jace or you waste the single blue to ignore the spell snare. Wastleand also enables taxing counters to work quite a bit longer and gives you more time in the combo match ups.
Regarding Explosives:
While Explosives is a flexible card, it was always the anti Mongoose card in this deck. With RUG playing 4 Stifle now (they used to play stifleless for quite some time) I have come to dislike the card. I am now playing a third equipment maindeck instead to account for the influx of discard and Abrupt decay into the meta.
Regading Vindicate:
Strongly agree. This is an awesome card, would never cut it form the main and board it out very rarely.
Supreme Verdict:
I dislike it as a one off in the Main deck. I feel Esper blade is more of a (slow) mid range deck. I want to disrupt my opponents early creatures and then gain board presence with a few souls token and threaten the equipment win. I play a fifth spot removal over this (atm Disfigure) so I can handle DRS, Lackey, Mother of Runes, Dark Confidant more reliably.
Intuition:
Also also do notlike intuition because I feel it is too slow.
Regarding SB choices:
Vendilion Clique/ Geist:
I strongly feel each Esperblade deck include either Clique or Geist. I like Clique because it kills Mongoose in Combat and is powerful vs Combo. I feel Geist is too slow in Legacy especially without mana acceleration. Nevertheless the card attacks for 6 a turn and is a true beatstick. I guess I dislike the variance of the card too much.
Hydroblast:
I never thought about the application vs Vortex. I think this will make me play this card in the future (it is also great vs lackey, burn, Burning wish combo, and Jund).
Countersuite:
I also like to board one or two Negate vs. Combo and Control matchups. MD I usually play 2 Spell pierce but I am thinking about replacing one for a Spell Snare eventhough tis could make Liliana somewhat of a problem if you can not find Lingering Souls.
Discard:
I do not play more discard usually.
Sweeper:
2 Perish + 1 Zealous Persecution I like the most.
Everytime AV kicked in I won. I was down to 1-2 life points on several occasions but drawing 4 cards in a turn gave me a complete grip over the game. Losing black in favor of straight UW allows me to operate on basics, and I think that's really important against RUG. I have never felt like Esperblade was very strong against RUG and BUG tempo decks at all and I feel like a combination of basic lands, wastelands, and supreme verdict is a step in the right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
RUG used to be scary, then they printed Rest in Peace.
* likeQuote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
It's actually been working out quite well so far. I originally wanted to put 1-2 Ponders in with all of my 1-ofs, but maybe I've just gotten lucky or something, because I really haven't felt the need for it yet. I would still like to test 1-2, because they become even better games 2-3, because you can dig for your Sideboard cards. I don't know what I would take out to even test it though. The Supreme Verdict or EE maybe? I dunno, what do you guys think?Quote:
Originally Posted by bilb_o
Yea, like I said, Wasteland has been great. I don't try to use it as a Tempo card, but sometimes it just happens that way lol. And it really does work well when my opponent tries to fetch basics after game 1. Also, I generally mull a hand with Wasteland unless i have 2 more duals/fetches.Quote:
Originally Posted by marax
Explosives: I've really liked EE so far, but maybe I can cut one for a Ponder, especially since I have S. Verdict to deal with Mongoose. I'm not entirely certain about this decision, because EE has never disappointed.
Supreme Verdict: It's been really good. I'm not entirely attached to having it main, so it's another possible candidate to replace with Ponder. I do want either EE or Verdict main, though, I think.
Intuition can be slow, but I've never really been unhappy to see it, unless I topdeck it when I'm behind anyway. Which even then it's not bad, being able to buy myself a few turns with all of the Spirit tokens it enables. And personally I love getting 3 Surgical Extractions lol. ;)
V. Clique, I used to love it, but I really do like Geist more as a sideboard card.
I think I am going to take out either the Cabal Therapy or Inquisition from my sideboard and put in another Perish. That should help my matchup against Jund, too.
What exactly is your Sideboard at the moment?
Thanks again!
Here are my thoughts on the discussion:
- Wasteland: Maybe I just don't see Maze of Ith decks in my meta, but this seems kind of loose. Our mana is really tight as-is, and we can almost always do something with extra lands. I do appreciate the applications against 12-post but I am not changing my maindeck to beat that deck.
- Supreme Verdict: I like having the singleton in the main. Even though it isn't relevant in every MU, having an uncounterable Wrath effect is really good against a sizable portion of the field.
- Engineered Explosives: It can be a little slow but the ability to handle anything from 0-3 is awesome. It is also a miser's G1 out to Storm/Belcher.
- Ponder: I would run a second one if I could fit it but I prefer to run a few more singleton bombs.
- Perish: While Perish is powerful, I don't know if I would double up on it because it is somewhat narrow and we need a flexible board. Unless I was certain to see a ton of Green decks I would run EE, Verdict, Humility, Path, Disfigure, Darkblast, Zealous Persecution, or any number of other things over the second copy.
- For the people considering Hydroblast, have you thought of Celestial Purge? While Purge doesn't do anything against combo it does handle all of the same permanents as Hydroblast plus Liliana, Confidant, Deathrite, Tombstalker, etc. etc.
I am pretty happy with Vidianto's maindeck but I am working on tweaking my sideboard and wanted some input.
Venser over V Clique: I have been running a 2nd Clique in my sideboard and it has been generally useful where I want it (combo/control) but I was thinking of replacing it with Venser. Venser is flexible and gives you outs to many situations that would be impossible otherwise. On the other hand he costs 4, is just a 2/2, and has no evasion. Clique is a pretty quick clock on its own but is a beating when combined with any equipment.
Humility over Verdict/EE: I have 4 slots in my board dedicated solely to creature MUs (Path, Persecution, and Perish are the other 3) and I was thinking of running a Humility here as well. Humility can neuter a lot of the big stupid creature decks and is a beating with Lingering Souls. However 4 is pretty steep for a sideboard card. Thoughts?
So after the crazy amount of Jund that's been showing up lately, what are our best maindeck/sidedeck answers to "fair" decks like these?
In all honesty, 4 STP + Snapcaster Mages sucks balls to play. I know there's some loss in value with DRS everywhere, but at that point, I'd just run more 1 CMC removal.
-Matt
I think planeswalkers like Elspeth is pretty good to come in for this matchup. Thoughts? She can easily defend herself from other creatures, but punishing fire is such trouble against all our creatures.. I'm not sure if the 1 CMC removal is the right answer against that deck. More Explosives can get multiple creatures and permanents at a time, EE on 2 could be something.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I've been playing alot against storm using senseis divining top as their filter. This disables my discard as they will just play from the top. Any suggestions how to handle this? Should I swap discard into flusterstorms or do you have any other suggestions?
Another option you may wish to consider is 2 Baleful Strixes in the SB. There's also crazy synergy with Academy Ruins if you're running that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessenator
They play Grim Lavamancer, Lightning Bolt, Liliana and Abrupt Decay. How can Baleful Strix be any good? They even get an artifact in the graveyard so that their goyf grows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Larry
Baleful Strix can also murder Goyf, and Bloodbraid Elf. It can recur with Academy out, and it replaces itself with a card draw. Card advantage is one of the best ways to combat Jund as they have plenty of it, and Stoneblade needs to keep up. As for an artifact going to the yard to grow their Goyfs, trust me when I say that Strix is not the first artifact of Stoneblade's that they want to blow up. Against Abrupt Decay, we are almost always going to have an artifact in our yard. The point of Strix is to fight them with a grindy, creature that replaces itself, doubles as removal, can possibly recur, and can pick up a sword/jitte and swing away.Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
I actually really like this idea. I'm going to try out 2 in my SB. Even if Strix dies to a Bolt or Abrupt Decay, they lose card advantage while we effectively lose none. And that just allows for a higher chance of our Stoneforge surviving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Larry
Also having 2 Perish in the sideboard is amazing. Though for me, I might replace one of the Perishes with a Baleful Strix. Either way, I'll be testing it soon, and I'll post what I find out.