Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
I'm not sure I understand how the Burning Wish version is softer to counter magic as I felt that the traditional list had similar problems in if your Entomb gets countered you're usually in a bad spot. I think that if you resolve an Entomb that the traditional list having way more reanimate effects does have a better chance of getting through but for me, while playing this deck, I've felt that you've always traded consistency for explosiveness.
So far I have felt that I haven't sacrificed much speed and if I need to play a slower game I can with just hitting lands and playing Wish into whatever item I need. Perhaps this is just based on variance and my sample size isn't large enough yet or my opponent's not fighting over the right cards because I am doing something unfamiliar.
I play Legacy mostly online and the metagame has a lot of BUG decks and a lot of Miracles decks. Both have a lot of permission and some amount of graveyard interaction/hate. I've liked the flexibility of Wish because I've had games in which my opponent went all in on graveyard hate and didn't have much permission which allowed me to put Griselbrand into play from my hand. Once again, my limited game experience with the deck means it could have just been good this one time.
.dk, what kind of transformative sideboard do you have in mind?
Things on my list to try is the deck with Emrakul, a Chrome Mox, and perhaps play around with Infernal Tutor.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
A few reasons that I think that:
1. Burning wish increases the mana requirements to go off - this makes playing through soft counters (daze, pierce) much more difficult
2. You may need to crack your LED in response to Burning Wish, pitching the rest of your hand. If it gets countered, you're left with nothing.
3. You have more discard in the traditional list to be able to strip your opponent's hand of that disruption and not worry about getting your Entomb countered as much.
4. LED as a discard outlet only works with Shallow Grave and not Goryo's Vengeance. While it is cheaper, Thoughtseize/Therapy is more flexible as a self discard outlet in that regard, as well as doubles as disruption for your opponent.
Again, these do come at the cost of being less flexible, which Burning Wish + LED can get you.
My transformation of choice is a DDFT transformation. But, I don't know that it is any better than the traditional reactive sideboards. However, it does catch some decks very off guard and has some good game against Counterbalance as it is hard for them to find a 3 drop to counter Doomsday with, at which point you can go to town with Shelldock/Emrakul.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Back on this pony.
Is the LED/Infernal/Ad Naus SB plan the real deal?
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SevenInTheQueue
Back on this pony.
Is the LED/Infernal/Ad Naus SB plan the real deal?
As discussed earlier in this thread (and even reading the post before yours) the overall conclusion was that running transformational sideboards creates sub-optimal lists (as opposed to the original lists running that strategy), but can catch opponents off guard and might work in specific meta's.
Sneak/show, DDFT, ANT, Helm/RiP, all are plans that where discussed at one point... As was Burning Wish before Children of Korlis became a thing. And because of Children, splashig white was a must. But did solve some inconsistancy issues this deck had. This also meant that running red or green (Abrupt Decay) splash became a problem for the mana-base. And offcourse you can say that AND/TES don't have problems with its manabase, but this decks wants to win faster. The anti-hate strategy is less meta dependend and does perform most consistant. Although there is not a fully optimal anti-hate plan in my opinion, since you would need a little bit of everything to be able to fight of all angles of hate and thus makes the anti-hate kind of stretched out (and cannot be solved by just pouring Abrupt Decay in the list).
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SevenInTheQueue
Back on this pony.
Is the LED/Infernal/Ad Naus SB plan the real deal?
Depends what you mean by the real deal.
Can it actually work? Yes.
Is it the best sideboard option? Probably not.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard Cheese
Was building this list as the previous version I've been playing has struggled too hard in a meta full of counter-top (4 out of 24 average). I've been playing goryo's in modern also (as brave/dumb as that tends to be) and have always loved the non-interactive discard Griselbrand turn 1.
I may try 4 but will try this "as is" first.
My only comment is that in building this deck, it turns out there are only 59 cards maindeck.
I must imagine the Tendrils of Agony was forgotten.
As a side note... I am soooo excited for the fetch reprints. Sold my deltas a while ago and have been playing it with only marsh flats since. Nobody has known how crippled I could be to a pithing needle...
Currently trying Gemstone mines in place of Deltas until release.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
capricorn
Was building this list as the previous version I've been playing has struggled too hard in a meta full of counter-top (4 out of 24 average). I've been playing goryo's in modern also (as brave/dumb as that tends to be) and have always loved the non-interactive discard Griselbrand turn 1.
I may try 4 but will try this "as is" first.
My only comment is that in building this deck, it turns out there are only 59 cards maindeck.
I must imagine the Tendrils of Agony was forgotten.
As a side note... I am soooo excited for the fetch reprints. Sold my deltas a while ago and have been playing it with only marsh flats since. Nobody has known how crippled I could be to a pithing needle...
Currently trying Gemstone mines in place of Deltas until release.
Oops! You are correct, 60th card is Tendrils.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
So this got spoiled:
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...0245448701.png
Anyone else seeing some potential here? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of a board like:
4 Cabal Rit
4 Empty the Pits
3 Rain of Filth
2 Silence
2Chainz (tru)
Postboard you'd be looking to use cantrips and discard aggressively early and aim to go off probably turn 3 or 4.
This would make RiP the main postboard threat we worry about. DRS would still be somewhat of an issue, but not nearly as big of a roadblock as he is for the primary combo. Counters would still be an issue since this is Delve instead of Storm, but we've already got about as much discard as other storm decks, and postboard we can be more aggressive with it since we aren't worrying about needing to self-target anymore.
One really interesting aspect is that this is all instant-speed, which means you can go off EOT, or even respond to a Deathrite activation or a RiP trigger.
I guess the question is: does this solve more problems than it creates? Also how consistent can it be without tutors?
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
I'm putting this deck together and wondering if the numbers of chrome mox and petals can be reversed without hurting consistency (4 chrome mox 1-2 petal).
Thanks,
John
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
John Cox
I'm putting this deck together and wondering if the numbers of chrome mox and petals can be reversed without hurting consistency (4 chrome mox 1-2 petal).
Thanks,
John
Can you do it? Sure!
But your consistency goes down a bit, since Chrome Mox isn't as good before we go off due to card disadvantage.
I wouldn't recommend doing it.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
John Cox
I'm putting this deck together and wondering if the numbers of chrome mox and petals can be reversed without hurting consistency (4 chrome mox 1-2 petal).
Thanks,
John
If you play 4 Chrome Mox you might want to try Pull from Eternity also.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Is a singleton rune-scarred demon worth trying as something to reanimate post Griselbrand? You could use it to get tendrils/ entomb/ shallow grave/ chain of vapor/ silence... etc
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
John Cox
Is a singleton
rune-scarred demon worth trying as something to reanimate post Griselbrand? You could use it to get tendrils/ entomb/ shallow grave/ chain of vapor/ silence... etc
No, because at that point you should either get Emrakul and win, or Children and win.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
sleeved up tinfins for a small shop tournament only 19 players but it's decent for my town ^^
Classic Koby's list 13 lands 3 seize 1 silence MD.
My side was
2-Serenity
1-Chain of Vapor
1-Echoing Truth
2-Massacre
2-Engineered Explosives
3-Pithing Needle
3-Silence
1-Mindbreak Trap(i was expecting some belcher and oops)
Round 1: Deathblade 2-0
g1 nothing much interesting I seized t1 , he revealed BS clique jitte and lands. I took his BS. In my turn 3 he cliqued me but i had setup the kill.
g2 it was the same story but t1 after a probe seing nothing
Round 2: A young kid who got bye round1 and play with a block deck (sad for him he got paired against TinFins) 2-0
G1/2 were brutal but i tried to explain everything to him the best i can.
Round 3: Infect 2-0
g1 i killed fast like t2 i guess
g2 he probed me and see i can shallow grisel , he decided to attack with noble and drop me to 14 life. Unfortunately for him my second draw7 after grisel attack gave me children (i already have petal for it)
Round 4: Reanimator RB 2-1
g1 was turn 1 or 2 kill for me
g2 was more epic, he duressed me t1 , i went for entomb in his t2 eot , he extirpated grisel :S his next turn he played a tormod's. We draw go for a while, silencing once to ge safe. Bounced his crypt eot. Probed him and see some fatties exhume and reanimate but no lands. I go for Emy dropping him to 5 and clearing his board. Now reanimate, children, tendrils ^^
We draw go for a while again, he puts a putrid imp in grave. I tried to reanimate it, he crypt himself. Later he exhumed Jin , i Echoing it. Then children join the battle. He played a putrid , faithless , exhume Jin ( he his at 1 due to city of brass pingings) My hand was Petal,Dark Rit at that point. I drew BS, it gave me another BS and random crap, i used a fetch to shuffle and play a new BS finding vault. I'm at 8 with children in play facing Jin and Putrid. I played Vault and stopped at 4 lifes and put tendrils on top. He drew extirpate ^^ i didn't wait for my draw and conceded. ahaha
This was clearly the funniest game of the day ^^
g3 i killed him t1 with the twin attack
Round 5: Hypergenesis 2-0
g1 i had Griselbrand in hand , he showed t3 or t4. I won on my turn
g2 i side out 1 cabal therapy along 3 probe/2 ponder as i was expecting Leyline of sanctity. He mulled to 6 and dropped Leyline t0. Draw go for a while until i silence in my turn (having grisel in hand in case he went for Violent Outburst) i killed with the twins pair
So 5-0 , Funny deck and funny games. I really enjoy this deck. My hand were good all the afternoon. The meta wasn't bad for tinfins: as far i remembered 2 Burn 1 MUD 3 elves 1 DnT 1 infect 2 Rea 1 Tinfins 2 MBA 1 Deathblade 1 BUG delver 1 Belcher
I never sided in Serenity but it would have shinned against MUD,Explosives are in side because i expeced elves and belcher and it's also good against vs bug as you take DRS and cage
I'll keep it sleeved to have more fun :tongue:
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Quote:
Originally Posted by
John Cox
Is a singleton
rune-scarred demon worth trying as something to reanimate post Griselbrand? You could use it to get tendrils/ entomb/ shallow grave/ chain of vapor/ silence... etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk5JzeHfckk
Don't get cute, just fucking kill them.
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
I haven't played this deck for a while so I am kind of rusty on the rulings. So I was wondering if we say have Griselbrand in the yard, they have an active Deathrite Shaman and I cast Shallow Grave, they try to remove GB and I entomb for Emrakul in response, does this allow for the shuffle effect before DRS's ability resolves? :confused:
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Re: TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst
Yes it does, though most times a better line would be to let the ability resolve and entomb for another griselbrand if available and just win.
