Nope. Goyfs won't like them at first. Second, we have plenty of burn so that won't be too a reason play them.Quote:
Originally Posted by johanessen
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Nope. Goyfs won't like them at first. Second, we have plenty of burn so that won't be too a reason play them.Quote:
Originally Posted by johanessen
Depends on the build I guess.
At first I thought it didn't sound that terrible of an idea at all, but soon realised that a lavamancer will have a hard time dealing as much damage as a mongoose will in a tempobuild, considering how fast that deck reach threshold and that mongoose won't be removed so easily. So no there, definately.
In the red CB builds I guess you could try him out, but i'll be surprised if he proves better than the already played dryads or predators.
He just doesn't beat control like you need him to. Every game I've ever won against landstill, etc has come on the back of a 3/3 with shroud because control has to work so hard to get rid of him. Lavamancer seems cute, but mongoose is just better in that slot.
Mongoose is better against the decks you lose to(control). Dryad is better against the decks you win against (aggro)Quote:
Originally Posted by MULocke
The options for the goose slot are 4 goose or 4 Q dryad. I personaly think goose is far better, but in the goblin infested metagame, or a metagame where you need an extra 4 1G abyss creatures instead of 1 mana untargetable elephants. Qurian is better in some metagames but in general theres a reason goose dispite peoples constant "This card sucks" attitude its still in the deck. You know why? Because 3/3s for 1 mana are awsome and big enough, the fact its near immune to removal makes it over the top.
Goose isnt just fat, its fat that demands a fatter answer or you lose.
I know goose is losing popularity, and I tried cutting him for one tournament, and I never will again.
Goose is still amazing. If you don't agree, that's fine, don't play him.
I agree that mongoose won't die in direct removal BUT if opponent resolves deed / ee example that won't really matter do you have mongoose or dryad in play, because they will pop that deed@2 or EE@1 at least. So there goes your nimble, dryads and tarmos. Yes, dryad dies to Stop and Snuff out but you have counters to protect that guy and if opponent finds answer in time, i think that dryad have make some serious damage, more than mongoose. Also, that mongoose sucks in mirror. Dryad will grow up bigger and faster almost always than mongoose (atleast if that dryad stays game).Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atog
You basically just argued the very reason that mongoose is typically better than dryad: because you don't NEED to waste valuable counters to protect him from single-target removal. You set marks against mongoose because he can be deed'd or EE'd and say that we can just counter-protect the dryad.
How about just using those counters to keep the sweepers and other larger threats off the board and let mongoose protect himself from the single-target hate?
Exactly. I COULD see boarding some for the UGR tempo mirror where its all about HUGE men where that lady might come in really handy but outside of that shes not worth it. And even in the mirror I would rather have threads.Quote:
You basically just argued the very reason that mongoose is typically better than dryad: because you don't NEED to waste valuable counters to protect him from single-target removal. You set marks against mongoose because he can be deed'd or EE'd and say that we can just counter-protect the dryad.
How about just using those counters to keep the sweepers and other larger threats off the board and let mongoose protect himself from the single-target hate?
also the arguement that goose dies to mass removal (Which dies to counters, stifles, and bounce spells) is a rather pathetic excuse. As dryad does as well.
Goose is as good and as awsome as he ever was. The next creature I would add to this deck would be Vendillion clique over 1 fire/ice and only in a counter top metagame.
Simply put no goose = bad.
EDIT: my side board has been wanting for a long time but I finaly broke down and switched it up. It now looks like
3 Tormads crypt
3 Price of progress
2 submerge
2 Krosan grips
2 Trygon predators
3 Pyroclasm
Price of progress is such a bomb it wins so many matches by itself (lands, landstill, aggro loam, exct) It isnt great in all matchups but its so strong that it needs to be in the board to prevent losses to random good "blue" decks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
I don't think Tormod's Crypt is necessary in your board if your playing Canadian Threshold (Tempo Thresh). The Ichorid matchup is very good main deck, and adding crypts is just over kill. I would rather dedeciate those slots for additional submerges and red blasts (REB/Pyroblast).
The sideboard should be built with theshold mirror matches in mind b/c a good percentage of the time, thats what you will be playing against. I do like the card disrupt for this scenario very much.
Current Board:
2 REB
2 Pyroblast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroclasm
3 Submerge
4 Disrupt
Ok, lets make it this way. Mongoose is too vulnerable for graveyard hate. Example merfolks novadays play relic in main. What mongoose is doing to that? When you reach threshhold (maybe take some while often) merfolk player drops relic and pops that. So now we have again small shroud creature what dies every creature what opponent has. You will argument that other decks won't play relic main and i won't argue against that. But if players just except thresh/loam/dredge they will pack relics/leylines/crypts in sideboard. Those relic and other hate make our tarmos small what won't be effective against dryad what don't care about graveyard all. That is the point why i'm going to play it over mongoose. We pack also cb/top so we can usually protect dryad, while burning opponent head or creatures AND growing dryad same time. Mongoose just sticks 3/3 what is my biggest concenrn. Well i play tomorrow those dryads in local tournament and i can report here how they worked for me. If they were bad you get laughts :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Smog
One question, is there any sence to side PoPs against dredge / and t.e.s. / ANT? Dredge plays 10~ non-basics so that could make some damage. Tes plays some more.. Just seeing sceneratio where ANT is playing and resolving Ad Nauseam and going low life when searching enought stuff to go leathal, just when they try to play tendrils you play response that PoP. That could prompt some noise other side of table :)
Relic is just as good against goose as it is against goyf. Why not cut goyf:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Atog
I also never said dryad was bad I simply said you needed geese. The reason being goose>swords>Guys that arent 3/X's Also dryad is alot better with counter top in play but with counter top in play white does it better so it shouldnt be in red. And in white thresh you just play prog + natural order+ wearbears over a measly 8/8 dryad. Dryad just doesnt belong there are better options available if your in white and if your in red you probably should be playing swans/moon or not playing CB.
There might be sense to side them in against TES and ANT (like over bounce or something) but not against dredge, dredge is too fast for that crap.
Hmm, if those dryads are so much weaker than mongoose how do you explain this?Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
UGR-thresh with dryads 1st
?
If you look recent lists, you will notice there is plenty other list what play dryad over mongoose too and have get in top8.
ok, or dryad thresh as the above links indicate, I have yet to play dryad thresh although I think it can be good as long as you play CB to protect it.Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch
I just noticed that almost every single deck that runs dryad also runs CB and I assume establishes Counter top befor playing it or immediately after playing it as to keep her alive while shes frail.Quote:
Hmm, if those dryads are so much weaker than mongoose how do you explain this?
UGR-thresh with dryads 1st
?
If you look recent lists, you will notice there is plenty other list what play dryad over mongoose too and have get in top8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atog
I could do the exact same thing, and show you more examples, with mongoose decks.
But whatever, play what you want. I'd rather see every other thresh deck out there running dryad.
From my experience disrupt seems the weakest card in the sb to me. What is your boarding plan with it? what do you take out?Quote:
Originally Posted by nickrit2000
It is supposed to be better than the BEB I think and you can also board it in against Combo - which is already a bye for you.
You can also bring them in against Eva Green and the like.
Personally I prefer Divert over both Blast and Disrupt. Since it isn't dead after the early game and does a lot more against Goyfsligh and Burn. Plus diverting a Hymn/Sinkhole/Thoughtseize is very sexy.
Ok, so I played Threshold twice those pasts week-ends at different local tournaments. Ugwb CB-thresh last Sunday (4th with 4-1-1) and Ugr Thresh yesterday (4th with 4-1).
@Mongoose :
In the UGwb one, I switch the 4xMongeese for 2xPredator and 2xGrunts.
That was boring.
Beeing unable to drop a threat before turn 3-4 (thanks to Daze and the 2cc of all my beasts) lead me to 40-50mn rounds most of the times. Even when I won them 2-0 !
Sure, this list is more controllish than the Ugr one, but beeing unable to put early pressure on your opponent is such a pain.
Next time I'll stick with the mighty goose for sure... Even in a control shell, early and hardly manageable pressure is neat.
@Stifle in UGr Lists :
Last night, I played a Ugr version Moon-effect empowered. It was only FNM so I wanted fun and interactions with my opponents.
No CB-Top, No Stifle-Waste shenannigans... Beatdown (Goyf&Goose + 2x Werebear) and Burn (4x Bolts, 3x Chain Lightning, 2x F&I) plus the 4x FoW, 4x Daze, 3x Snares countermeasures.
No tempo cards, but a way better reach and aggro matchup.
Still, crushing 'random' is fair, but I didn't want to lose to classic CB Thresh lists or Control decks. So I packed 2 Grips MD and 2x Magus/1x BloodMoon in the available slots, plus a random Rushing River in case of TombStalker or needed tempo boost.
The meta here is quite mature, and as soon as my opponents recognized UGr Threshold in front of them, they begun to fear Stifle and Wasteland. They slow play their fetches and fetch basics most of the times (thus making my Moons near useless if I couldn't drop them fast enough).
So, I finally gain quite the same tempo as the Stifle//Waste lists, but with a better reach and a better manabase (no colorless lands in my 17).
Making it short : not packing Stifle and Wastelands make my deck faster. Still, my deck received the benefits of those 2 cards without ever playing them.
If your mana denial//tempo plan consists of only 7 cards and if you can't abuse stifle like DreadStill does, I really do think the card is weaker than the hype around it.
People are living in fear of Waste & Stifle, but you don't need to play them to reap the rewards from those cards.
I have to agree that I was afraid of the combo matchup without Stifle nor CB to fight this particular archetype.
I only faced Belcher once but I won 2-0 thanks to FoW+SpellSnare on BW twice game1, and Ancient Grudge and FireSpout G2.
The thing is, countering key spells while rubbing face with goose and burn was too much for Belcher.
I agree ANT would be another story...
Im more interested in seeing what you take out. (Tempo Thresh list)Quote:
Originally Posted by FredMaster
I played today at local tournament in 24 person pool. I finished at 7th, losing to ANT(!) and aggro loam. I beated r-b aggro (red death?), mono-u skies and deadguy ale.
That ANT match was ridiculous, in first game i get counterbalance stay, and opponent played orim's chant on his turn, i try to counter it with daze, when opponent has 4 life and two city of brass untapped, he payed and take on burn. Then i finished him by lighting bolt :) Second game he bounced my balance and played tendrils@12. I was holding lighting bolt but no red source to play it :( He has 1 life.. Third game were something what i have never seen. ANT player played three duress so far turn two. Fair? Not. First hit my daze, second hit my force, and third take out my balance :( that left me with couple lands. Then i don't draw any relevant and he finished me off by Empty The warrens.
Aggro loam were too quite nice. I lost first game to unaswered Countryside Crusher (i didn't draw a single force in whole game, and counterbalance were on the table without top). Second game i sided in submerged and something else.. I draw three submerges and ALWAYS responded that fetch by playing that submerge on tarmogoyf. And every time he draw a fresh tarmo on top of deck. Nice draws, yeah?. Third game, he landed again countryside crusher and tarmogoyf, and i didn't draw my enought soon so they literally crushed me down. That PoP would save my ass in both games, IF i would just draw that and played it in sideboard. Loam player was 5-8 non-basics in play so that would be quite destructive :)