What match ups is nahiri for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
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What match ups is nahiri for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrothgar
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
All the blacks deck with discard effect and other control with blast effect who can target the Jace wincon.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckado
Hey y’all, long time browser and Legacy enthusiast, first-time poster. I’ve been playing a variant of Stoneblade since Jace and Misty got the ban hammer in Standard, though my experience in tournaments has most been grinding side events at Grand Prix and Opens. Most recently I played my Esper list to 18th of the IQ in Charlotte this past August, finishing 4-2-1 with a loss to Shaheen Soorani and an unintentional draw to a Grixis Delver player I was too nice to call out for slow play (had him dead on board at 1 life the next turn with no outs but he didn’t concede). Regardless, I’m a huge fan of this deck and for every match I’ve played, I’ve spent a dozen hours testing, tuning, or theorizing.
In light of GP SeaTac, the banning of Dig Through Time, and the general trend of everyone hopping on the Shardless train, I thought I’d post my current list and thoughts on the archetype in the format.
*see below reasoning for Deathrites in a “not Deathblade” list
Esper Stoneblade
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
2 Painful Truths
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
1 Council’s Judgment
1 Notion Thief
1 Disenchant
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
2 Meddling Mage
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
Briefly, I’ll address Deathrite Shaman. I’m of the opinion that Stoneblade decks that play Shaman aren’t automatically reclassified as Deathblade, which is a decidedly more aggressive and committed 4-color deck with some control elements. Shaman is a very useful and powerful utility creature for a control deck, as evidenced by it’s inclusion in Chapin’s Esper Mentor list from SeaTac.
This leads to my general philosophy for this deck and card inclusions: Play the best cards available for each function you need. In a way it’s like the Modern Jund of Legacy, only with more consistency and blue spells. I’ll explain this below:
Creatues: Deathrite Shaman is a workhorse. It’s fast mana for that turn 2 True-Name, it’s graveyard hate, it’s a clock, and it’s even Liliana insurance. Stoneforge seems underwhelming on paper these days, but your opponent still must answer it (or force you to discard) when you play it or they’re just going to lose to Batterskull. True-Name is the best clock for a field of fair decks in my experience because of it’s resilience and color. Lingering Souls and Monastery Mentor were considerations but lower the blue count making Force worse. Finally, Vendilion Clique is always an over-performer. If this wasn’t legendary I’d probably play four and zero True-Name.
Spells: I maxed out on the core pieces of Force, Plow, and Brainstorm for obvious reasons, while also including the full 4 Thoughtseize to be as redundant as possible. Two Ponders help with filtering while Spell Pierce remains my favorite bit of cheap interaction. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is here twice because I want to keep a low curve but still like seeing him in multiples in the longer games. My favorite new tech is Painful Truths, which in my testing is a wicked beating. It’s made even better by the level of card quality in this deck. Shardless decks are using their draw-three to get more Shardless Agents and Baleful Strix, while this deck draws Stoneforge and True-Name.
Lands: I really want to respect the Blood Moon (and Wasteland), so I play the two basics in the list as insurance. No basic Swamp because it really interferes with the core of blue spells and Stoneforge. Plus, if you cast Deathrite off a dual and it gets wasted, you can still make mana with that land. The rest of the base is pretty standard, with the two green duals there to support the green splash from the board. Originally I played an Island as my only basic and had two Wastelands in place of the Plains and Bayou, but I decided I’m not playing a Wasteland game anyway, so I’d rather have more lands to produce colors.
Sideboard Notes:
Part of the reason I love Stoneblade is that even though game one is usually between 40-50% against the field, the sideboard can really stack things in your favor. Every time I win game one, I feel like I’m a favorite to win the match just by the strength of our sideboard and the fact that nothing really hoses the deck.
The green splash of Abrupt Decay and Sylvan Library is there primarily for Miracles and the mirror, taking a note out of Chapin's book. Meddling Mage is good generic hate for combo while also providing a clock. Zealous Persecution is almost always the best card to draw when you board it in, hosing Elves, Death & Taxes, Pyromancer, and even Empty the Warrens. The utility against opposing True-Names is also great. Notion Thief is GG against Shardless almost always. The rest of the board is pretty standard hate for graveyard and combo shenanigans.
So all in all, I love this deck. It has game against virtually everything, and in the hands of a familiar pilot, can usually make a good run in a tournament (I'm looking at you Shaheen and your list from 2012). Any thoughts or criticisms of the list are appreciated, as I’m always looking to tune the list here and there.
I’ll leave with two discussion topics that I’ve been thinking about recently. First, does Council’s Judgment have a place in the main deck anymore? I feel like it was adopted for it’s utility against True-Name and replaced Vindicate, but looking at the current meta I don’t see True-Name as the omnipresent threat that it used to be. What permanents are a threat in game one that we want this in? The 1WW cost is just really extreme for the deck.
Also, how has Nahiri, the Lithomancer performed for those who have tried her? I’ve been meaning to test her for a while but can’t ever decide on a card to cut from the board.
Hi Ajax, i like your last post.
I don't play esper but anyway imho your choices are right.
I don't like the mono-Flusterstorm and the mono-Clique because the combo matchup are not godd with this configuration imho.
I don't think the only 2x Meddling Mage can save you from storming or other combo stuff.
The rest is good imho!
:)
Hi,
This weekend I played my old deck again at the last Belgian Legacy Cup trial. I have been testing a new control list over the last few weeks and wanted to play something else then Miracles again for the day.
There were 42 people attending.
Esper Control
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Marsh Flats
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Lingering Souls
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Notion Thief
SB: 1 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
R1 // ANT: 2-0
G1: I disrupt him enough with T1 Tseize, T3 Snapcaster-> Tseize and Vendilion Clique with FoW backup.
G2: It seems at a moment he is going for it but miscounts and concedes shortly after :(
R2 // Grixis Delver : 2-0
G1: I'm on the play and have Polluted delta,Flooded strand,Marsh flats,Underground Sea, Ponder, Tasigur, Brainstorm. (I know what he's playing btw).
So this game I try to bait some Wasteland from him. I open up with fetch Tundra to play Ponder. And get wasted T1, okay nice..
T2 I play a Underground Sea and he Wastelands me again. T3 I fetch Underground Sea into Tasigur. He tries to FoW it, I FoW back:)
He plays a DRS and 2 turns later a Young Pyromancer and makes 2 tokens with Gitaxian Probe and Ponder and plays a Gurmag Angler (nice turn lol).
I STP the angler and EE for 0 so he has to chump with his Young Pyromancer. I win next turn.
G2: I keep a one lander (Flooded Strand) with Brainstorm,Ponder. I fetch Island and Ponder but he Spell Pierces. He plays a DRS and passes. I try Brainstorm, he Daze's it.
Next turn I cast another Brainstorm, he responds with Vendilion Clique which resolves. Brainstorm is okay and finds me 2 lands with a fetch and I cast Duress. Next turn I EE for one to get DRS. Clique keeps beating me down but I can stabilize playing Council's Judgement with Flusterstorm backup for his counter. Luckily he diddn't have a bolt cause I was at 2 after all of this..
R3 // Elves :2-0
G1: He is on the play and plays a DRS. I cast a STP on DRS. T2 he plays a Quirion Ranger bounces Forest and another DRS. T2 I thoughtseize away his NO I think. He plays a Wirewood Symbiote and Visionary. I EE for 1 to get Symbiote and Quirion (He bounces DRS). Next turn he deploys his whole hand kinda but I play Supreme Verdict and take over with a Jace after.
G2: He starts with Bayou into DRS. I go Underground Sea and Tseize him and see a hand of Blood Moon,Blood Moon, Craterhoof, Cradle, Forest, Quirion. I take the Quirion. Next turn I STP the DRS and make sure he never gets enough mana to really do anything good. He gets me down to 2 life though, before I race him with V.Clique, Meddling Mage and Ethersworn Canonist.
R4 // Infect :2-1
G1: He is on the play and goes T1 Glistener Elf which I STP. He ponders and plays another one, which gets STP"ed again. T3 another one which I EE for one. Then he plays a Blighted Agent that gets Snapcaster STP"ed and his Inkmoth gets trumped by Lingering Souls.
G2: We trade some resources and eventually he gets a Glistener Elf with a Pendelhaven and gets me to 2 Poison. I'm tapped out at a point and have FoW+pitch, Snapcaster and souls in GY. He has 2 cards in hand and Brainstorms. Here I make a big mistake by saying ok too soon and let Brainstorm resolve. His brainstorm finds him Become Immense and Spell Pierce for my FoW.
G3: I destroy some creatures and find a Darkblast around T5. He tries his best to fight back but eventually I grind him out (dredging over 7 times^^).
R5 // ID
R6 // ID
QF // Infect: 2-1
This is the same guy I played in the Swiss rounds. I win G1 pretty easily but in G2 he gets a T2 kill through. G3 I grind him out with plenty of removal and Lingering Souls.
SF // UW Fish: 2-0
This was some version playing with Cavern of Souls, TNN, Stoneforge Mystic, Cursecatcher, Judge's Familiar. He mulls twice to 6 and I beat him pretty easiliy.
F // Miracles: Split
I get to the finals against a teammate. He is a very good player and I think we both kinda want to get home so we agree to split prizes and I get the 2 Byes;)
The decklist felt really good for me. I think one of the big advantages of playing an Esper build is that the sideboard can take care of almost if not every matchup in Legacy.
The Sorin is some tech against Miracles/other control MU mainly since it cant get REB'd and has good synergy with Lingering Souls/Monastery Mentor. I didn't get to play it too often this tournament but I think it deserves a spot.
Another card I kinda want to fit in the sideboard again is Perish. I always used to play this since it's so good against RUG Delver,BUG Delver, Elves, Jund, Shardless BUG,.. really nice card.
Next time I will probably play 1-(2) Painful Truths in the deck which seems really good and it can always get Snapcaster'd so 1 might be enough even.
Greetings,
Johan
hi,
has anyone ever tried out a list with show and tell and griselbrand?
i lost to a build like that at a nearly 400 man tournament and since then i was really fascinated with that idea and now i try to rebuild the deck but i didnt see too much of it.
sadly i couldnt find any list although i googled for hours. thats why i registered here. maybe the one piloting this deck is even reading. who knows.
thanks in advance and excuse my bad english! :)
Just went 4-0 tonight vs. UW Landstill (2-0), BUG Delver (2-0), Enchantress (2-1) and Imperial Taxes (2-0) with the following list:
Creature (10)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Sorcery (5)
4 Thoughtseize
1 Council's Judgment
Instant (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
Planeswalker (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifact (3)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
Land (23)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Karakas
Sideboard (15)
1 Disenchant
1 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Duress
2 Containment Priest
2 Meddling Mage
1 Path to Exile
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Zealous Persecution
Hello everyone,
This is an Esper StoneBlade list I have been using recently to unexpected success.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
4 Island
1 Plains
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
2 Predict
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Lingering Souls
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Disfigure
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
Sideboard:
3 Duress
3 Meddling Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Disfigure
1 Disenchant
1 Nihil Spellbomb
Essentially the concept is to make it as lean, consistent, and mana efficient as possible. The idea came from observing the cantrip-heavy Grixis Control decks, and the modern evolution of Miracles decks (in which cantrips were increased and clunky cards such as Entreat the Angels were cut as much as possible).
With this design Predict has been surprisingly awesome. On multiple occasions I have even kept pace with Shardless BUG's card advantage engine with these and Snapcaster cantrips flashbacks.
Has anyone else tested a StoneBlade design like this? Curious to hear your thoughts.
I took this list to my local today and managed to go 3-0-1 with it. Felt pretty good considering I just tossed it together the night before and I haven't played any legacy in a couple months.
Land
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
Artifacts
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives
Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Intuition
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
Sorceries
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Council's Judgment
3 Lingering Souls
1 Ponder
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Thoughtseize
Creatures
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
1 Engineered Plague
1 Flusterstorm
2 Meddling Mage
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
2 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zealous Persecution
I'm not sure if 3x Souls and 3x Therapy is too much or not. Six discard is probably too many; maybe cutting a Thoughtseize for a second Ponder or a Painful Truths. Only cast Intuition once on the day, getting Therapy to deal with D&T getting Manriki-Gusari off a SFM.
R1 - 2-1 - Dredge
R2 - 2-1 - RUG Pyromancer
R3 - 1-1 - D&T
R4 - 2-1 - Elves
Sup guys, I've been playing with my Esperblade list in Cockatrice and MWStation and it has been pretty good, actually. Can someone give me some tips on the list?
Lands [22]
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit
Creatures [11]
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells [27]
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
3 Lingering Souls
2 Spell Pierce
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Ponder
1 Counterspell
Sideboard [15]
3 Meddling Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Disenchant
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Plague
1 Flusterstorm
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Rest for the Weary
Two main points:
1) Disenchant or Council's Judgement?
2) Do I need more discard in the sideboard (Duress)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
Don't u guys like painful truths?
3 mana, 3 life for 3 draw? No thanks.
1) I prefer Judgment as it hits more, and can easily help against other turn 1 spells in case you don't have Force of Will. The 1 more mana in casting cost comes with a lot of flexibility that I think is worth considering in a deck where you can reach 3 mana easier than decks with wasteland. This way you could perhaps also reduce Disenchant to 1 in the sideboard. As for what to remove for Council's Judgment I would perhaps go 3 x Snapcaster Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
2) How come you don't want to use cabal therapy, when you have Lingering Souls?
So I have been playing Esper Stoneblade for a few months now and have been enjoying the heck out of it. My only consistant, nagging issue, is my local meta has 2 omni-show decks, and I'm always having problems against them. I have been running 2 disenchant, 2 canonists and 2 meddling mages out of my sideboard, with 4 force and 4 thoughtseize maindeck. However I have yet to win a match against either of the two. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips that I may be overlooking regarding this matchup?
For reference, here is my currently decklist.
Creatures:
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-name nemesis
Spells:
4 Brainstorm
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
1 Counterspell
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Council's Judgement
2 Lingering Souls
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Batterskull
4 Force of Will
Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Chill
2 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Zealous Persecution
Getting ready for legacy at GP Oakland, and wanted to get some advise about deck choice. Normally I would play RUG delver, but I'm considering stoneblade as a more straightforward and consistent deck to bring to a wide open meta. I am thinking that BUG and miracles will have a sizable showing.
If stoneblade is a good choice, which variant (UWR or UWB) is a better choice?
I'd be more tempted to play UWB since it would give you access to Thoughtseize, Lingering Souls and a few other cards. Red can be better against aggro but I think you'll find more combo (like TES) around, in addition to Miracles and BUG. You might have fair sideboard options with Red but in the maindeck it's basically only good for Lightning Bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by SansSerif
I examined what I believe to be the problems that Esper has to face in the current metagame and came up with a quite special Esper Stoneblade list. Let me know what you think. :)
Greetings
thank you. that is the list i was looking for also it misses Supreme Verdict.
I really enjoyed playing the deck, but I desperately wanted another land in there. I will be playing just this deck for at least another 40-50 games.
An esper list finally made it to 10th place at the SCG event this weekend
Creatures (9)
Planeswalkers (3)
Lands (22)
- 2 Island
- 1 Plains
- 1 Swamp
- 4 Flooded Strand
- 2 Marsh Flats
- 3 Polluted Delta
- 1 Scrubland
- 3 Tundra
- 3 Underground Sea
- 1 Academy Ruins
- 1 Karakas
Spells (26)
- 1 Batterskull
- 1 Engineered Explosives
- 4 Brainstorm
- 1 Counterspell
- 1 Esper Charm
- 4 Force of Will
- 4 Swords to Plowshares
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte
- 1 Council's Judgment
- 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
- 2 Lingering Souls
- 1 Ponder
- 1 Supreme Verdict
- 2 Thoughtseize
- Sideboard
- 2 Containment Priest
- 1 Notion Thief
- 2 Rest in Peace
- 1 Disenchant
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 1 Surgical Extraction
- 1 Zealous Persecution
- 1 Cabal Therapy
- 1 Painful Truths
- 2 Perish
- 1 Telemin Performance
Aside from the single Council's Judgment and Painful Truths in the Sideboard, this deck looks pretty much like esper decks did before Treasure Cruise and DTT, right?
It does. Telemin's Performance is interesting in the sideboard, but it also existed pre-DTT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlee
I have something else to bring on. The list isn't mine, it's from a Legacy side-event in GP Nagoya. Made top 8 in 121 player event.
Judge it as you want, but the allegedly called it Esper Stoneblade. I say allegedly because it's what I was told, and I don't read Japanese to confirm on my own. So here it goes...
スイス7位
Nagaya Takenori
土地19
3《湿地の干潟/Marsh Flats》
3《汚染された三角州/Polluted Delta》
3《血染めのぬかるみ/Bloodstained Mire》
3《Underground Sea》
3《Scrubland》
3《不毛の大地/Wasteland》
1《Bayou》
クリーチャー10
4《墓忍び/Tombstalker》
3《石鍛冶の神秘家/Stoneforge Mystic》
3《死儀礼のシャーマン/Deathrite Shaman》
呪文31
4《暗黒の儀式/Dark Ritual》
4《渦まく知識/Brainstorm》
4《Hymn to Tourach》
4《ヴェールのリリアナ/Liliana of the Veil》
3《目くらまし/Daze》
3《思考囲い/Thoughtseize》
2《剣を鍬に/Swords to Plowshares》
2《思案/Ponder》
2《未練ある魂/Lingering Souls》
1《殺し/Snuff Out》
1《梅澤の十手/Umezawa’s Jitte》
1《殴打頭蓋/Batterskull》
サイドボード
2《仕組まれた疫病/Engineered Plague》
2《呪文貫き/Spell Pierce》
1《仕組まれた爆薬/Engineered Explosives》
1《真髄の針/Pithing Needle》
1《解呪/Disenchant》
1《外科的摘出/Surgical Extraction》
1《暗黒破/Darkblast》
1《寒け/Chill》
1《呪われた巻物/Cursed Scroll》
1《水流破/Hydroblast》
1《Karakas》
1《沼/Swamp》
1《虚無の呪文爆弾/Nihil Spellbomb》
I changed it a bit to suits my need, for instance I replaced the 4th Liliana with a Jace, removed the Chill and Cursed Scroll (might test the latter, later) from the sideboard, but else is... I mean, it's... fun? Refreshing? I don't know how it would feel or play in a GP, but so far the testing are fun and indeed, the deck work. Tombstalker avoid the Abrupt Decay like nothing else.
I also was skeptical vs Dark Ritual, so with the games I played, I took time to write how I was using those. I'm now convinced.
1) T1 Liliana of the Veil
2) T1 DRS/Thoughtseize + Hymn to Tourach
3) As said earlier, I was missing a Liliana so I went with 3 Lili 1 Jace, Dark Ritual allowed me to play Jace turn 2 with a Thoughtseize in protection as I played DRS turn 1. The feel was awesome.
4) Fueling Tombstalker with mana + extra Delve
5) Hardcast Batterskull
6) Cast/Equip Jitte
Thoughts??
Very interesting and I kind of like it, but I don't think I can get behind Daze in a deck that only has 3 Islands...Quote:
Originally Posted by LDX
I might try this out one day soon, just massage the numbers a little bit.
I also made top 3 in the Premier IQ attached to the Denver Open with a very similar list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlee
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=95877
I do think I am moving towards more Lingering Souls in the future as Shardless BUG feels like a rough matchup overall.
I have been playing with you list for a short time, and I can easily get behind Lingering Souls being great. Because you have answers for almost any situation in the deck, all you need is time, and Lingering Souls gives alot of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hdh
When im playing vs rug delver I often have problems sticking threats to the table, and TNN is often met with REB. Batterskull is also met with Ancient Grudge. Do you bring in Nahiri in those matchups even though it can be a struggle to reach the 5 mana?
Also: what matchups do you bring in Notion Thief against? Any deck with Brainstorm or mostly the grindy matchups like Shardless BUG, Miracles etc.?
Nahiri was an experiment that failed, it was for against discard grindy matchups like BUG but it did not seem good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlee
Notion Thief is mainly for grindy matchups but I ended up bringing it in vs grixis Delver as I don't want forces against them and did not have enough good cards to bring in. It ended up being impressive when I drew it but unsure if it should come in there or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awake91
Did you get to test the deck yet? I've put up another article about it. Let me know what you think and where your testing has left you! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
Greetings
I'm curious to know whether anybody else finds Jace a bit underwhelming in this deck? Perhaps I'm paired up against aggro too often, but it seems like the deck lacks the board control that Miracle offers. Too often, my opponent has multiple threats on the table and there's only so much removal in this deck. With just one board sweeper in the main (typically), I find it hard to protect Jace and get good use out of the card. I'd like to test out some form of card drawing in its place, but I don't know what. Fact or Fiction came to mind but doesn't sound all that great. Anything else that might be worth trying?
Elspeth has always been my second choice of PW in this deck. It's good against Miracles, can protect herself to a point with soldiers, makes them solid threats or helps your other "real" creatures become major threats, something Snapcaster and SFM both hugely benefit from. Also, good against Miracles.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
I've tried Elspeth before. It's a viable card, but suffers from the same problems as Jace, being a Planeswalker. I think what the deck lacks is a source of card advantage. Brainstorm and Ponder are great, but provide card quality more than card advantage. I tried Sword of Fire and Ice for a while, but too rarely I had no threats on the table to equip it with and it would just end up being a dead card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
If you're having trouble with aggro decks, how come you don't add more cards like supreme verdict or ensnaring bridge?
Could you share your decklist?
Sure, here's what I have at the moment:Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlee
4 SFM
4 TNN
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 FOW
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 STP
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict / Engineered Explosives (I keep switching these)
2 Jace, Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
2 Island
1 Plains
SB:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Vendilion Clique
2 REB
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Wear / Tear
2 Rest in Peace
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Meddling Mage
I have tried running 2 copies of Supreme Verdict in the main but I didn't like it. It's too difficult to cast with 3 coloured mana and too slow because of its high casting cost. I added a fourth TNN instead for the moment to test out. The deck doesn't do particularly well against combo game 1 either. I think UWB is the way to go with this deck but I don't have access to Underground Seas, so that is probably my biggest issue.
Kinda put up togheter the following list and I'm planning to take it to a local Legacy Friday. Can I get any comments or suggestions?
Lands [22]
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Creeping Tar Pit
Creatures [10]
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells [28]
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
3 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard [15]
3 Meddling Mage
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Disenchant
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Hey all,
how come Monastery Mentor does not appear in the recent lists?
Cheers
j
Mentor competes with TNN and Lingering Souls, and those align with our gameplan much better. We don't run 4 Sensei's Divining Top, so we can't do the double-top thing like Miracles does. What really puts the nail in the coffin is that Mentor doesn't have evasion.
I ran a list very similar to yours and won the legacy tourney! https://twitter.com/HBSTnipponbashi/...06743923748864Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
It performed very well! Here's how it went!
Round 1 vs GBx infect:
Game 1 - He mulls to 6, i get a turn 2 SFM and grab jitte. He's got two knight of infamy out by turn 4, i play a clique at the end of his turn, cast jitte, equip it, and he doesn't find a decay to deal with the jitte. I win pretty easily.
Side out - 1 stp, 1 narset, and 2 fow. side in - 2 zealous persecution, 1 pithing needle, 1 supreme verdict
Game 2 - He duresses me turn 1, takes jace. I set a land and pass, he hymns turn 2, I brainstorm and put my only 2 lands on top and let him hymn, he hits lingering souls and FOW, perfect! I cast lingering souls turn 2, TNN turn 3, and he can't kill me before tnn beats him down.
win 2-0, record 1-0
round 2 vs jund:
Game 1 - he mulls to 6, i thoughtseize him and see bob, bloodbraid and 4 lands. I take the bob. he sets a land and passes for 2 turns. I draw another thoughtseize and take the BBE and see that he drew a decay and some lands. I cast narset the next turn and uptick her until she hits 9. He bolts her, so she goes back down to 6, but he doesn't draw any threats, so I get her back to 9 and ultimate her, at which point he scoops.
Side out 4 fow, 1 spell pierce- side in 3 surgical extraction, 1 supreme verdict, 1 pithing needle
Game 2 - He plays sylvan library turn 2, i play sfm turn 2, his turn 3, he decays SFM, and I surgical extract the decay. I set a land (3 lands) and pass, he draws and i clique him, revealing 2 goyfs and a kolghans command. I make him bottomdeck the command and he taps out for 2 goyfs. I take my turn, set a land, play EE on 2 and then explode it killing both his goyfs and his library. I proceed to beat with clique for 6 turns after playing a jace the next turn and fatesealing him. he tries to play a bob at one point, but I use academy ruins to get EE back and kill bob.
Win 2-0, record 2-0
round 3 vs ANT:
Game 1 - He git probes me and i reveal my hand of 2 fow, 3 lands, sfm, and snap. He ponders and passes. I play turn 2 SFM. he tries to go off but i have the nut draw thanks to a snap -> brainstorm (2 fow, 2 blue cards, spell pierce and one open blue mana source) and he fizzles.
Side out - 4 stp, narset, jace, 2 lingering souls, jitte, TNN, and EE. Side in 3 surgical extraction, 2 flusterstorm, 2 duress, 2 meddling mage, and 2 zealous persecution (against xantid swarm/young pyro/empty the warrens, also not completely dead if it can get a few extra points of damage).
Game 2 - He ponders turn 1, passes, i set a land, pass. His turn 2, he duresses me, i brainstorm in response and end up with 2 fow, surgical, 2 flusterstorm, lands and a zealous persecution. I set both flusters on top, he takes surgical extraction and passes. I draw flusterstorm 1 and pass my turn 2. He goes off with LEDs into tutor and past into flames in his graveyard. I fow pitching fow to his tutor. He tries to play past into flames and i flusterstorm it. He passes. I draw flusterstorm 2, set land #3, play SFM (grabbing batterskull) and pass. He draws an infernal tutor (he has 0 cards in hand and 2 mana), he casts it and i flusterstorm it. I activate SFM and get in batterskull. He draws lands and passes. I draw a counterspell, then a fow. I attack for a 3rd time and cast zealous persecution, bringing him down to 1 and me up to 30. He draws and concedes, revealing an empty the warrens and something irrelevant at that time.
Win 2-0, record 3-0
The deck drew very well. Every maindeck card was useful at some point (except Karakas, but that's not a terrible thing, just means i didnt play vs decks its good against). I personally just like Narset so thats why she's in the deck and I feel like top as a 1 of wasnt super necessary (not that it's bad, but it's the easiest thing to cut), so I cut top for narset. I don't own marsh flats (sold when they were high, i can wait until they're reprinted) so I just stuck with 8 fetches and added in 2 wastelands in it's spot (against certain land decks, wasteland -> surgical is game winning). I cut creeping tar pit for underground sea because having less than 3 seas makes me uneasy tbh. I chose 2/2 pierce vs counterspell because counterspell, while needing 2 blue, is still so much more useful and less dead late-game. Overall though, it's just a lot of good cards all together, which is really fun!
Sideboard: I prefer duress to cabal therapy if I'm not running git probes. I chose to run 2 flusterstorms because when the card is good, it wins games, which proved to be the right choice. Even a deck like jund, where i would bring in the sword of feast and famine, i didnt really miss. I feel like 1 pithing needle was enough, and I upped disenchant to 2 because when I need a disenchant, 2 is so much better than just 1. Meddling mage, i also lowered to 2 because it's sometimes just not that great of a sideboard card. 3 Surgical extraction was amazing! I can see adding in a 2nd EE somewhere because of how good it is with academy ruins, too!
So yeah, thanks for the deck idea! Obviously some of the changes are meta-based/personal preferences but overall, I really liked it!
Oh well, nothing much going on here these days.
Just slacked of a bit at work and tinkered on a UW take, featuring some unconventional choices.
C/Q + C/A
4 BS
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
2 Predict (neat C/A with 10 cantrips + SCM)
2 Jace Beleren (yup! crucial Mentor C/A, works better with a low landcount, comes down earlier, somewhat a wincon, but not really..)
"NO"
4 FoW
2 CS
2 Snare
NON-U "NO"
4 STP
2 Disenchant (Eldrazi, etc. etc., also with all the cantrips: we'll never draw unless we want to. Also: much easier to flashback with SCM than CJ)
DMG
4 Mentor (3 might be the ideal number, but since he's our #1 threat, why not max him out?)
3 SFM
3 SCM
2 Clique
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
(-40-)
LAND
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Windswept Heath
3 Tundra
5 Island
1 Plains
2 Wasteland
(-20-)
SB
3 Flusterstorm
2 Canonist
2 RiP
4 Vapor Snag (needs to be tested, but I figured we'd simply use it to stall against creature decks until Mentor tokens eat there face for brunch.)
2 BEB (common targets: Bolt, Burning Wish, REB, YP, Goblins)
2 B2B (Eldrazi, greedy 3+color decks, Lands, etc.)
Let me know your thoughts!
^_^
What is the strategy of Esper Blade (Alex Smith 75) vs Eldrazi?
Many of the mainboard cards do very little. Engineered Explosives for 0 takes care of Chalice and Endless one, but Thought-knot Seer and Reality Smasher are out of reach. Swords to Plowshares is always good, but they have so many creatures, that you need to draw more than one or have Snapcaster.
The only card that I am certain to side in is Disenchant for Chalice. Perhaps Spell Pierce also, if I am on the play.
Is the 75 good enough for this matchup, or is the Sb in need of adjustments? Cards that come to mind are:
- Ensnaring Bridge (they only have ratchet bomb for this)
- Back to Basics (Could be too slow, and does not stop them entirely)
- Sower of Temptation (kind of a long shot, but it dodges the Reality Smasher protection)
If you're on Esper and really want something for Eldrazi, I think the best thing is to take a page out of Shardless BUG's book and run some baleful strix. My shardless buddy says they're the MVP card in that matchup.
Hi everyone,
I'm mainly a miracles player but as I own all the cards for Jeskai stoneblade (and Esper, though only on mtgo), I've been playing some leagues and FNMs with the deck when I didn't feel like playing miracles.
I have some questions for stoneblade "specialists", that I have not been able to find a satisfying answer yet.
First: is anyone still playing UW(r)? Most lists I've seen post-DTT ban seem to be esper, and after reading the 10~ last pages of this thread, everyone seems to be on Esper.
From what I've understood, Esper gains some sweet cards from black, even if not going the full "deathblade" route, where red only gives access to sideboard red blasts and blood moon. Do you think Jeskai is still a viable choice for the current metagame? Or is Esper the superior choice for the moment? Do you guys usually change between the 2 builds depending from the meta?
Another question, specifically about card choice: could you recommand a good Jeskai build (if there is one "stock" list?). I've been building the deck more or less myself getting inspiration from various but old lists.
Lands:
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted delta (MTGO)/4 Scalding Tarn (IRL)
Creatures:
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 TNN
4 SFM
Spells:
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to plowshares
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 FoW
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
1 Council's Judgement
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Some of the more unusual choices I've made are the SDT, the bolt and the sword MD. First, I don't really understand why SDT isn't played in this deck: I get that you would rather hold up countermagic in the first few turns or play cantrips rather than spend mana on a top, but the single top has been great in the few games I've played, giving me great game selection in the late game, and even sometimes making my opponent put me on miracles and sideboard incorrectly.
The bolt is more to justify running Jeskai, as well as general utility (5th STP or can kill a Jace, or give unexpected reach with snapcaster to close out a game). I have always felt Sword of Fire and Ice to be one of the best equipments available, but on the other hand I don't run that many creatures. Maybe I should cut it?
About the side, I also have some questions. I don't have a very fixed sideboard (nor remember it for the moment :) ), and I also find myself lost on how to sideboard in some matchups.
My side looks something like:
1 Elspeth Knight-Errant/ Nahiri the Lithomancer: a big top-end spells for grindy games, Elspeth being really good against miracles too
2-3 Vendilion Clique
2 REB
2 Wear-Tear
2-3 Supreme Verdict + Pyroclasm + Izzet Staticaster
2-3 Graveyard hate: usually split surgical extraction/RiP
2 Flusterstorm
Maybe a hatebear or 2 if I have some room: canonist, meddling mage, containment priest
1 Pithing needle if still room
First, if someone has suggestions of best cards to put in the side, I could use some advice :)
I would also like to know how you side against miracles: my main plan is to board out most of my removal, if possible still respect mentor, with izzet staticaster for instance.
I like the additional PW (mostly if it's Elspeth), all my cliques and additional counterspells.
What I don't really know is what to cut: I don't really want to cut FoWs, as miracles looks like a pseudo-mirror, and I don't want them to resolve a counterbalance ever. I would never cut FoWs in a miracles mirror, but maybe it's right to do it in stoneblade?
I was also wondering about the eldrazi matchup: I've not had the opportunity to test, but having batterskull and TNN seem to make it ok. What do you think of the MU? Any specific tips on how to play against this deck using stoneblade?
Sorry for the long post full of questions, I'll be gratefull if someone can help me!
UWB is the build of choice nowadays, basically because of the reasons you mentioned. The Jeskai build also has a really bad G1 against many combo decks. If you are intent on playing a Jeskai build though, the list you posted is pretty close to stock, though it is a bit light on removal. You could probably cut down on the Spell Snares (weakest card in the deck, IMO) and add in another Bolt and an Engineered Explosives (or another Supreme Verdict). I also suggest removing Sword of Fire and Ice. In my testing it doesn't work well in a deck packing so few creatures. It might be worth replacing it with a Vendilion Clique to help against combo. I like your addition of a single SDT though. I don't see why it wouldn't be useful.
As for boarding against Miracles, I would substitute the Lightning Bolts with REB and a combination of Snapcaster Mage / Ponder to board in Vendilion Cliques. Elspeth works well also. Haven't tested the Eldrazi matchup, but Blood Moon sounds like it's worth a try. Hope this helps.