I play a totally different version of the deck, but man I wonder how those Huntmasters play out. That card is so cool.
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I play a totally different version of the deck, but man I wonder how those Huntmasters play out. That card is so cool.
No, I actually WANTED him to Show and Tell. I had Primeval in hand, and putting that in off of Show would enable me to use my removal spells to get rid of whatever he Showed. If he went Emrakul, he would be out of gas and I would just Wish for Blood. If he went Griselbrand, I had a Pulse that I could use to take out the demon, which he'd draw 7. If he found a counter, I would Wish for Blood and still take it out, and he would, again, be out of gas. If he didn't, I would Wish for Reanimate and bring back the demon on my side, which would be my best recovery for when he had the inevitable Sneak+Emrakul (if he drew 7 and didn't hit a counter, he had to have that instead).
This all went perfectly according to plan....except for when I miscounted my mana and mistakenly thought that I had to sac Primeval to Tower to get the mana for the Wish+Reanimate. If I hadn't done that, I would have been able to keep Primeval alive after he swung with Emrakul, thereby killing him (he was at 5). But I just ferociously threw it away instead :|
@Star Scream,
You can play BUG without any UDG Seas. Trop and Bayou are the important ones. The UDG Sea is mostly there for those times when you open up with a basic forest, follow up with an Oracle, and intend to play a T3 Lily.
As for the SB, you can use Duress instead of TS. You will like them better against Reanimator but you won't like them as much against Blade decks and Sneak Show.
So after some inspiring ideas from this thread I updated my BUG gifts list. Here is what I'm testing currently:
// Lands (21)
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
// Creatures (14)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Fierce Empath
1 Trygon Predator
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
1 Consecrated Sphinx
// Spells (25)
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Gifts Ungiven
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Go for the Throat
1 Ghastly Demise
2 Innocent Blood
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
// Sideboard (15)
3 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Daze
3 Extirpate
3 Negate
1 Kitchen Finks
The manabase is unchanged, although I'm still in doubt whether or not to cut dryad arbor. Sometimes it's nice to be able to GSZ it, but other times it's plain horrible. In the main I changed -1 Karn, -1 GSZ, -1 Kodama of the North Tree for +1 Innocent blood, +1 Unearth and +1 Thragtusk. Vorapede is in consideration of the 5 drop, but since everybody loves Thragtusk so much I'm currently testing that one. Unearth is absolutely fantastic. It makes Gift piles so much better and less mana intensive when you can just recurr snapcaster or witness for 1 mana. Negate was changed with spell pierce, which is horrible after turn 3/4. Maybe I should go -1 Daze, +1 negate, but I like the fact that Daze can be played very early and doesn't require open mana. Some local tournaments are coming up and if I can loan the missing cards I'll give it a spin and let you guys know.
Question: Why didnt you just get all duals vs Sneak n Show? They don't USUALLY play anything that would affect your mana base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I might of read the lands wrong but if you would of got a red dual instead of that swamp with Titan I think you could of killed him with Valakut by Reanimating your own Titan.
He is one of my favorite creatures inthe deck. So versatile and difficult to totally get rid of. And it creates awkward positions for your opponent who draw something they may not want to play immediately. I do think he is a bit worse vs burn than finks though sadly. Finks you didn't have to do any work to get extra life.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
HoneyT got 28th at SCG Kansas City with GB Nic Fit, 5-2-1.
Long time watcher, first time poster. I ended up going 4-4 at KC with the Rector version. I'll try to get a list/report up once I have time.
Does it seems to be right to side in the humility/curse lock against most tribal decks?
How hard is it to control his flips? I'm asking this because, on an unrelated note, I have always liked Mayor of Avabruck on paper (not for nic fit), but for control type decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Do you find that you and your opponent are trying to play around the 0 and 2 spells per turn limit, and do you experience that one or both players go down to 0 cards in hand to prevent the card from flipping during any turn?
I'll probably end up double posting in a bit (unless someone posts between now and then) once I have my notebook with me to write up my tournament report.
I don't find controlling Hunts to be a problem at all. When he doesn't just eat removal on the spot, your opponent is left with a choice: they can either cast a spell to stop him from flipping, or they can not cast a spell and just deal with it. If they cast a spell, then you have the same decision -- depending on board state, I've both ignored him and kept doing stuff, or passed the turn to flip him. All depends. If they didn't cast a spell, then you get to swing for 6, cast two spells for another two life and another wolf, and continue applying pressure.
Having a second Top makes controlling Hunts a lot easier, but it isn't necessary at all. Burning Wish does a good job of getting two spells in a turn, as does Witness. Beyond that, if you're on the Huntmaster plan, the game can fall into a sort of natural rhythm where you hoard spells, pass without doing anything, play two of them, hoard again, etc. It's actually pretty easy.
Jbone and HoneyT -- well done! I look forward to hearing more from both you.
@Jbone -- it depends on the deck, honestly. I usually don't bring it in vs Fish or Gobs, but I always bring it in vs Elves. The main difference is that Elves can actively combo you out, whereas you can lock Fish and Gobs with Moat. If you run into the combo Gobs that sometimes runs around, then it's fine to bring in the Humility vs them (but I would still leave Curse in the board).
@Megadeus -- I don't think he's worse than Finks vs burn at all. He has a very serious advantage that Finks doesn't have: he's a serious clock in a matchup where we don't have infinite time. It's also worth remembering that Hunts can easily provide a steady stream of life, whereas Finks will usually only get you two life (they won't kill it if at all possible, so you need a sac outlet for full value).
@CRich -- I was actively trying to set up a Valakut kill on the next turn. If you have Valakut out, and you're at 4 Mountains, the next Primeval swing will put you to 6...but because of the way Valakut triggers, both mountains would count as bolts. The deck only runs 11 mountains, so I need to be as conservative with my "ammo" as I can, so to speak. That being said, you're completely right. There was a line there I didn't even see, where I sac Primeval to Tower, then Reanimate it to just kill him on the spot. Definitely a good trick to remember for the future -- Valakut has so many weird interactions like that. Good spot. I'm starting to think that I adopted the literal only line where I -couldn't- win that game, lol.
@UseLess -- Unearth is amazing! I put one in the 4c Gifts version that a friend of mine played at Vestal this weekend, and it did really sweet things for him all day. He still sucked, but that was primarily pilot error, not deck construction.
Thragtusk is definitely amazing. The fact that it is Submerge resistant is sweet, as well as that it trades with two Monguise, and swings for chunks every turn. In white versions, I think that Sigarda is still a bit better for the GSZ5, but Tusk definitely has its place alongside her. Other versions should really consider running two of them -- I trimmed Broodmate for my 2nd Tusk, and am not looking back. I'd suggest cutting the Arbor, and how good has Trygon Predator actually been? Seems more like a good sideboard option....or is it a meta call? The Dazes in the board look terrible. That can't actually be good =/ Otherwise looks pretty good =)
Would you guys recommend playing BUG Gifts if the meta is expected to be Miracles? Am using the Recurring Nightmare with Unearth in a Gifts BUG and I must say that Unearth has been amazing. Though am considering to cut a 3rd Gifts and eventually going down to 2 in favor of more discard.
@UseLess
How has the split between Liliana and Jace been? I can't fit them in the deck either. Also about Fierce Empath, with only 2 targets, is it worth the slot?
*DISCLAIMER* I powered out this subpar report for a friend roughly around 4am. The time in which I got home. I did get to meet honeyT and the dude is rad.
I went x-3 at the scg today. I decided to play jund nic fit. This was the first time playing the deck (besides the few games i played in the hotel the night before) I was pretty happy how things went. The deck was insane all day. Thragtusk and broodmate dragon were all stars all day long. I just got home but i'll try to recount the best i can.
Round 1 High Tide 0-2
Terrible match up. He goes off turn 2-3 both games and I get a massive brain freeze.
Round 2 Belcher 0-2
FUCK man, as soon as he went turn 1 gitaxian probe followed by a street wraith cycle I knew it was gonna be a long shitty day. I lose on turn 1 both games.
Round 3 RUG 2-1
I take some damage off delvers and goyfs, I blow the world with deed and follow it up with 2 thragtusk and just cruise from there. This is how games 1 and 3 go.
Round 4 Merfolk 2-0
I ramp us both into a bunch of mana and he continues to flood out while I drop some hunt masters followed up with a thragtusk. Game 2 he mulligans to 6 and he sticks a standstill. I was way totally piped on this cause I'll just continue to play lands and stick something huge. I break the standstill with a cabal therapy naming force of will and hit. Seeing he has no other counter I green sun for 6 and stick a brood mate dragon and smash then some more thragtusks.
Round 5 B/W Stoneblade 2-0
We both trade some discard spells and then he plays stoneforge mystic, fetching batter skill then resolves some lingering souls. I maelstrom pulse the batter skull then wipe the board with deed and smash with MVP thragtusk. Game 2 finished in similar fashion.
Round 6 Aggro Loam 2-0
Now this was a very long tedious match. Deed, pulse and scavenging ozze were all house in this match both being able to deal with the shitty seismic assault and life from the loam. Game 2 went the same route but with some dope blind calls with cabal therapy and hitting seismic assaults on turn 1.
Round 7 Goblins 0-2
Eh, I mulligan both games and he overruns me the best way goblins can.
Round 8 2-0 RUG 2-0
See round 3.
I was pretty stoaked on how i managed to crawl back from the lower levels of tables to the higher ones. :cool:
1 Badlands
3 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (13)
1 Broodmate Dragon
2 Thragtusk
1 Eternal Witness
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wickerbough Elder
2 Senseis Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
2 lightning bolt
2 Terminate
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Suns Zenith
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 garruk primal hunter
Congrats on the good day man. Rough about your first 2 match ups though... No huge bomb after broodmate dragon though? I always have liked having my gravetitan to just win the game. I'll have to try out Thragtusk I guess... I need to pick one up!
@ sumbahdy
The two planeswalkers perform very nice. Never had any complains about them and they were never redundant or so, nor did I have the feeling I wasn't drawning (tutoring) them enough. Both are gamebreakers on a favorable/even boardstate and Liliana is always good vs creatures. I don't use her +1 that much, but getting 2 edicts out of her is usually plenty to seal the deal. I used to run Karn as well, which made for very cheesy Gift piles (Karn, Lily, Jace, Witness) but he just costed too much. When getting 2 cards from the gift I wanted to play both of them, not just one.
The empath is worth it because you have a way to tutor your six drops with GSZ. Especially late game this is desirable as blue lists can't fetch large knights or 5/5 flyer hexproof that can't be sacrificed. Without, GSZ can be become rather a dead card fetching only mediocre creatures at best.
@Arianrhod
The trygon predator is good. Apart from its ability its a 2/3 flying and flying is good. It mainly was meant as a replacement for Qasali Pridemage, to have a tutorable answer to artifacts/enchantments. Never dissapointed to draw it and haven't even considered yet replacing it. On the dazes I can't say much. As I said I have not yet played a real tournament, only playtesting and MWS, but it was good vs Reanimate, SnT and combo which are rather poor matchups otherwise. It gives me some T1 interaction which Im confortable with. I hope to give the deck a spin next saturday, then I'll give you an update.
@UseLess -- Fair enough. As long as there's thought behind it, by all means, experiment and see how it goes. I feel like Daze will be disappointing, but it's worth a shot I suppose.
I wrote up my tournament report finally. It's posted in the Tournament Reports forum on the main Source page. Here's the link: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...121#post665121
I placed 28th at SCG KC yesterday. Record of 5-2-1. Played straight G/B. Here's a brief summary:
Round 1: Goblins 2-0
Round 2: High Tide 2-0
Round 3: Maverick 2-1
Round 4: RUG Delver 2-1
Round 5: U/W Stoneblade 0-2
Round 6: Elves 1-2
Round 7: Merfolk 2-0
Round 8: Esperblade 1-1-1
I'll have a more in-depth report coming soon!
I also played Valakut-Scapeshift-Nic Fit last saturday at the local legacy.
I never played it before and never playtested it but it felt challenging and was a blast to play.
I ended up 2-3 which should have been 4-1 or 5-0 due to play mistakes.
Lost against 2 UW Miracles & Modern Bant Pod (wtf haha)
Won against Sam Black's Zombardment and Jund Nic Fit
I really hate the miracle match ups. One game I Therapie'd him 3 times, Extracted Jace TMS left him with lands and a Top (I named Brainstorm 1st turn 1st therapy, then I realized you should always name SDT on the play in this match up), then he simply miracled a big Entreat the Angels at some point and still won because EOT Entreat > Pulse, lol. Other than that it was an awkward and funny tournament.
I definitely keep on playing scapeshift & share with you my updates and stuff
Since miracle match ups seem to be a problem for Nic Fit players. I wonder if there are any suggestions how to be better prepared for them in the current GB, Rector and Scapeshift versions. It seems that an EOT entreat is the biggest problem. Can we prepare by having a deed on the table all the time? Seems pretty difficult?
Well, UW Miracle often is hard fight, especially after sideboarding when they get Vendilion Cliques.I think the problem is that they can always get their "lucky" top decks like Entreat the Angels even if you kind of dominated the game so far and disrupt them...while with a Deed already in play you're safe.
In my opinion, miracle is easily winnable with correct side boarding and they can't really interact with valakut against scapeshift-nic fit
While it's true that a Deed onboard means you're "safer," it does not mean you're safe. They all have some number of Disenchants, and they're perfectly fine just sitting there waiting until they draw one (or a Snap if they've already killed something), nuke Deed, then EoT Entreat.
IMO, Entreat is the real problem in the deck. If we extract their Entreats, they're just left with Jace as a win condition. Now, Jace is still pretty good against us, but let's face it -- we know how to deal with Jace. We have Pulse, Vindicate, Sigarda, Tusk, Valakut, Fetters, REBs, Thrun, Huntmaster, Grave Titan, and a few other toys....all of which can be used to shit on Jace. To that end, I'd prioritize getting rid of Entreat accordingly.
And Alex is exactly right -- they don't run Wasteland, and they're a slow enough deck that we can actually Valakut them out literally just by playing lands. That said, you need to be careful with it so that you don't run out too many mountains before you have the 2nd Valakut. I'd hold any excess mountains until that point, once you hit the 5 requirement. That leaves you 6 shots in the deck, which, with double Valakut, gives you 36 damage to distribute to Jaces and/or face.